a question about an old card. overrun MUST be cast before the attack, because it is a sorcery?also, a planeswalker ability is considered a sorcery or instant effect.thx in advance

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a question about an old card.

overrun MUST be cast before the attack, because it is a sorcery?


also, a planeswalker ability is considered a sorcery or instant effect.


thx in advance      
Overrun generally has to be cast in your main phase, yes
but there are ways around that

Loyalty abilities are activated with "Sorcery Timing"
they are however not sorceries, so you cannot Counterspell them (but you can Stifle them)
proud member of the 2011 community team
Not at all. You can cast [C]Overrun[/C] after combat too. You cannot normally cast it during combat, though. For example, you couldn't normally cast it after attackers are declared but before defenders are declared, and you couldn't normally cast it after blockers have been declared but before damage is dealt.

Planeswalkers can be only be cast "any time you could cast a sorcery” (in your main phase when the stack is empty).
but you can't cast a sorcery AS you are declaring attackers?
but you can't cast a sorcery AS you are declaring attackers?

you can't cast ANYTHING as you are declaring attackers, because you simply don't have priority
but in the declare attacker step (after you declared attackers) you generally can't cast sorceries, correct
proud member of the 2011 community team
You can't cast anything AS you declare attackers.
i ask because one of my buddies likes to attack, then suddenly whip out his overrun, and we all get killed.

This is not right, and plz, oh plz, let me tell him that his spell fizzles! 
the spell will not fizzle
he will however have to roll it back and untap the lands he activated for it
proud member of the 2011 community team
i ask because one of my buddies likes to attack, then suddenly whip out his overrun, and we all get killed.

This is not right, and plz, oh plz, let me tell him that his spell fizzles! 

It does not fizzle, he backs up because that is an illegal play.
He can't do that. It doesn't fizzle; he's not allowed to even cast it.

  1. ...

  2. Main phase starts.

  3. The Active Player can cast sorceries here (when stack is empty). Other players can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  4. Combat Phase begins.

  5. Can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  6. Attackers are declared.

  7. Can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  8. Blockers are are declared.

  9. Can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  10. Damage is dealt.

  11. Can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  12. Main phase starts.

  13. The Active Player cast sorceries here (when stack is empty). Other players can cast instants but not sorceries here.

  14. ...


(Assumes nothing like Leyline of Anticipation's ability is in effect.)

and about garruks overrun ability, is that able to be used when declaring attackers, or before?
Loyalty abilities (Planeswalker abilities) can only be cast  "any time you could cast a sorcery” (in your main phase when the stack is empty).
man, he has won ALOT of games like this.

never again out of the blue. i like to see whats attacking when i get steamrolled 
Loyalty abilities (Planeswalker abilities) can only be cast  "any time you could cast a sorcery” (in your main phase when the stack is empty).

and there currently is no way to circumvent that
proud member of the 2011 community team
Let your friend know that for his strategy to work, he'll need to add Hypersonic Dragon or Leyline of Anticipation, unless he happens to have a copy of Vedalken Orrery.

Garruk's still pretty good, but he'll have to do that before combat. You'd have seen it coming anyway.
Keep in mind that most other activated abilities can be used as instants.
will do


and should i delete this thread of leave it? 
Leave it, for others with a similar question to benefit.
man, he has won ALOT of games like this.  

If, as you said, he (illegally) cast Overrun AS HE DECLARED attackers,
then I'll hypothesize that he would have won most of those games anyway.

Let's say he did do it the correct way: Cast Overrun during Main Phase and then proceed to Combat Phase.

Would it have made such a difference?        
What more would you have done?
You'd have gotten overridden anyway! 






(of course, if he actually cast Overrun AFTER you declared blockers, then that's a whole different story!)

When someone has an imaginary friend, we call it mental sickness. When a bunch of people have the same imaginary friend, we call it a religion.

couldn't declaring attackers and immediatly casting Overrun be covered by "out of order" sequencing?
assuming nothing else happened since the main phase
proud member of the 2011 community team
Yes.
I am actually trying to demonstrate that out of order sequencing is of no consequence here.

They woud most probably have lost the game anyway.
Of course, the illegal play should be addressed,  
but «man, he has won ALOT of games like this» suggests that he would not have won those game otherwise,
which I seriously doubt.



Again: Mr Mattstr1, what more would you have done?  

When someone has an imaginary friend, we call it mental sickness. When a bunch of people have the same imaginary friend, we call it a religion.

So, assuming this is out of order sequencing, what would happen in the following situation:

AP: Attackers?
NAP: Sure
AP: Creatures X, Y, Z...I cast Overrun

NAP would have cast an overloaded Blustersquall before attackers, but after Overrun was cast.  Would the game be rewound to:

Overrun has been cast and we're in the beginning of combat?

Cheers
So, assuming this is out of order sequencing, what would happen in the following situation:

AP: Attackers?
NAP: Sure
AP: Creatures X, Y, Z...I cast Overrun

NAP would have cast an overloaded Blustersquall before attackers, but after Overrun was cast.  Would the game be rewound to:

Overrun has been cast and we're in the beginning of combat?


Cheers



Yes, if NAP so desires.


Out of order sequencing is like (or a specific form of) a shortcut. So NAP can deny it, having the game go in correct order (no creature attacked, it's the Main Phase yet, AP is just casting Overrun). NAP let Overrun resolve, then cast Bluttersquall to tap the creatures. Then the game proceeds as normal (and AP will likely declare no attackers now).

[<o>]
If the players explicity advanced the game to the combat phase, then out-of-order sequencing would no longer apply here. His opportunity to cast Overrun is missed.

In LoveMonkey's scenario, Overrun is not cast legally, and would have to be taken back.
So how would it work with out of order sequencing?

Something like:

AP Draws a card
AP Attack with X, Y and Z...I cast Overrun

Cheers
If it was done without delay or pause, I'd say that's a textbook case for OOS.
4.3 Out-of-Order Sequencing
Due to the complexity of accurately representing a game of Magic, it is acceptable for players to engage in a block of actions that, while technically in an incorrect order, arrive at a legal and clearly understood game state once they are complete.
All actions taken must be legal if they were executed in the correct order, and any opponent can ask the player to do the actions in the correct sequence so that he or she can respond at the appropriate time (at which point players will not be held to any still-pending actions).
An out-of-order sequence must not result in a player prematurely gaining information which could reasonably affect decisions made later in that sequence.
Players may not try to use opponent's reactions to some portion of an out-of-order sequence to see if he or she should modify actions or try to take additional ones. Nor may players use out-of-order sequencing to try to retroactively take an action they missed at the appropriate time. In general, any substantial pause at the end of a completed batch is an indication that all actions have been taken, the sequence is complete and the game has moved to the appropriate point at the end of the sequence.

The provisos don't appear to be violated here.

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Yeah, that would qualify nicely for OOS combined with a shortcut. At that point, the opponent could either reject the shortcut, request that the active player perform the actions in the correct order, or both.
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