Hit Dice Healing

I only downloaded the playtest packet about two weels ago and I saw that you can hear using hit dice during short rests refrenced but i cant find the rules for it.  Was this in the first packet.  If so, how do I get the first playtest packet or what are the rules for this type of healing?
Think of them like healing surges, spend them in a short rest or if somebody uses a healing kit. Simply roll the die and get the bonus, or dice if you really need.

It should already be in the pack you have (the second playtest packet contains the first with all updates). 
I think the confusion lies with the term Hit Dice.  It's a subtle mention at character creation and that's about it.  For vets the idea of Hit Dice isn't new, but for others it might escape notice.  I actually had to  stop and think about this for a moment.

Hit Dice are the dice you roll each level to gain hit points.  When you roll dice for healing through short or long rest or other means, you roll a die (or dice) based on whatever die you rolled to gain HP in the first place (Hit Dice.)  So a Rogue rolls a D6 to gain new HP max when they level.  The D6 is a Hit Die.  If you're second level, that's another D6 added to your max HP (2D6, so it would be 2 Hit Dice total.)  This would mean the Rogue has 2 Hit Dice to use for healing.  To get the Hit Dice used back, the Rogue needs to take a long rest first - which would be 6 hours of sleep in an 8 hour long rest period (including 2 hours on lookout.)
 
At least this is how I interrupted it all.  If I'm wrong, someone please correct me because I want to make sure I understand this as well.

yeah, the term "hit dice" sucks. They're trying to harken back to the old skool but in this case they've done it in this really clumsy way that's actually obfuscating the mechanic's purpose.


They could have called it "hit point dice." Still really awkward but at least that clarifies things.


Edit: HP dice? But then I just think of brown sauce...

They just need to be explicit on its use, i.e. hit dice value for the class, hit dice roll for generating hit points, or hit dice roll for healing and how to recover the use of them.

They just need to be explicit on its use, i.e. hit dice value for the class, hit dice roll for generating hit points, or hit dice roll for healing and how to recover the use of them.


I agree that'd help a lot, but I still think the language in the term is confusing.

They made very poor choices with the naming of this mechanic. The "Hit Dice" are healing surges (4e), just ones that heal a variable number of HP instead of a fixed number. They have no relation whatsoever to Hit Dice (1e through 3.5), other than that characters happen to have the name number of Hit Dice (Next) as they do of the things that 1e through 3.5 called Hit Dice and Next calls nothing (but which many people call Hit Dice, because characters have the same number and size of them as they do Hit Dice, and because that's what they used to be called.)
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
They made very poor choices with the naming of this mechanic. The "Hit Dice" are healing surges (4e), just ones that heal a variable number of HP instead of a fixed number. They have no relation whatsoever to Hit Dice (1e through 3.5), other than that characters happen to have the name number of Hit Dice (Next) as they do of the things that 1e through 3.5 called Hit Dice and Next calls nothing (but which many people call Hit Dice, because characters have the same number and size of them as they do Hit Dice, and because that's what they used to be called.)


Well, Hit Dice in 1e-3e didn't really do anything. They were there overlapping with level and hp. The 5e Hit Dice mechanic is a nice blend of surges and the familiar. 

As to the OP's question, check out page 14-15 of the How To Play document.

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They made very poor choices with the naming of this mechanic. The "Hit Dice" are healing surges (4e), just ones that heal a variable number of HP instead of a fixed number. They have no relation whatsoever to Hit Dice (1e through 3.5), other than that characters happen to have the name number of Hit Dice (Next) as they do of the things that 1e through 3.5 called Hit Dice and Next calls nothing (but which many people call Hit Dice, because characters have the same number and size of them as they do Hit Dice, and because that's what they used to be called.)

Yeah, why not just call this what it is, HS? I mean really, Icky Poo you got a piece of terminology from 4e. Live with it,
That is not dead which may eternal lie
/agree
Yeah, why not just call this what it is, HS? I mean really, Icky Poo you got a piece of terminology from 4e. Live with it,

I don't think that's actually helpful. Hit dice is a familiar term to pre-4E players, but the mechanic doesn't match what they are familiar with. Healing surge is a familiar term to 4E players, but again it doesn't really do all the things healing surges do. (Triggered by powers,  second wind, 1/4 of your max HP as a constant number, etc.)

We need a new, edition neutral term as a compromise. Lets be fair and mix the two: "Healing Dice".
Yeah, why not just call this what it is, HS? I mean really, Icky Poo you got a piece of terminology from 4e. Live with it,

I don't think that's actually helpful. Hit dice is a familiar term to pre-4E players, but the mechanic doesn't match what they are familiar with. Healing surge is a familiar term to 4E players, but again it doesn't really do all the things healing surges do. (Triggered by powers,  second wind, 1/4 of your max HP as a constant number, etc.)

We need a new, edition neutral term as a compromise. Lets be fair and mix the two: "Healing Dice".



i like healing dice.

 
Yeah, why not just call this what it is, HS? I mean really, Icky Poo you got a piece of terminology from 4e. Live with it,

I don't think that's actually helpful. Hit dice is a familiar term to pre-4E players, but the mechanic doesn't match what they are familiar with. Healing surge is a familiar term to 4E players, but again it doesn't really do all the things healing surges do. (Triggered by powers,  second wind, 1/4 of your max HP as a constant number, etc.)

We need a new, edition neutral term as a compromise. Lets be fair and mix the two: "Healing Dice".

I'd thought of that, BUT, here's my argument. The game is supposed to be modular. What happens when I put in 4e style surges, I have to call it "healing dice"? The term should be GENERIC. Healing Surge doesn't have to mean any specific thing, but it is going to be all over in the rules. SOME term will be all over that corresponds to "that resource PCs have that regulates healing". I'd surely suggest a more neutral term of SOME sort.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Well, hit dice isn't "neutral", it's a pre 4E term.

Healing surge isn't "neutral", it's a 4E term.

If "Healing Dice" is inadequately "neutral" then we're back to looking for a new term.

I'm not sure I understand how modularity features into that. Can you clarify?
Rest Value
Heal Dice
Recovery Dice
Heal Roll
Base Healing Value
Recovery Roll 
Heroic Verve Undecided
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At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Healing Swag.
Mojo
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I don't see why using a semi-related term from one older edition is preferable to using a semi-related term from a different older edition.
It's neither a Hit Dice nor a Healing Surge but has elements of both.  

Likely it's called a "Hit Die" because they added that back into the game, then tacked on its use as healing later to add more healing to the game. Which is as good a reason as any to call it one thing.

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Well, hit dice isn't "neutral", it's a pre 4E term.

Healing surge isn't "neutral", it's a 4E term.

If "Healing Dice" is inadequately "neutral" then we're back to looking for a new term.

I'm not sure I understand how modularity features into that. Can you clarify?

Because a modular system won't necessarily use DICE as part of this, like say the 4e healing surge system didn't use dice. The term HS though doesn't say it IS or IS NOT dice, it is non-commital. And lets not pretend that we don't use terms from all editions, eh? This is a thing that never existed in any previous edition to 4e, but somehow it is better to have it referenced by the WRONG pre-4e term? It isn't hit dice, and it may not be dice at all, so why healing dice either?

That is not dead which may eternal lie
Mojo

Freakin' seconced.

Yeah, why not just call this what it is, HS? I mean really, Icky Poo you got a piece of terminology from 4e. Live with it,

I don't think that's actually helpful. Hit dice is a familiar term to pre-4E players, but the mechanic doesn't match what they are familiar with. Healing surge is a familiar term to 4E players, but again it doesn't really do all the things healing surges do. (Triggered by powers,  second wind, 1/4 of your max HP as a constant number, etc.)

We need a new, edition neutral term as a compromise. Lets be fair and mix the two: "Healing Dice".


What's wrong with Hit Surge? That sounds badass!

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Also check out my books at 5mwd.com/publishingIncluding Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuildinga compilation of my blog series on Worldbuilding.

 

Rest Value
Heal Dice
Recovery Dice
Heal Roll
Base Healing Value
Recovery Roll 

Rest value implies rest, anything with dice and roll in it implies dice, and 'base healing value' doesn't seem accurate to me. Healing Surge seems accurate, 'Recovery' could be used (13a uses this term unsurprisingly). I could think of others that have surely been suggested in previous iterations  of this thread, heroic surge, hero point, healing point, etc.

How about other variations too? What about a system with no specific limit on 'surges' but you take some disadvantage every time you go to that well. Eventually you're just so beat up you're useless (and probably dead as well). Now the hero binds up his wounds etc after the fight, but he's not QUITE as good as he was before. No penalties will accumulate DURING a fight, but once the encounter ends...

I can think of a few other variations on these ideas...
That is not dead which may eternal lie
"And lets not pretend that we don't use terms from all editions, eh? This is a thing that never existed in any previous edition to 4e, but somehow it is better to have it referenced by the WRONG pre-4e term?"

No, I agree with you that Hit Dice is a terrible term for the mechanic. I just don't think Healing Surge is any better. If a mechanic doesn't match a players expectations and therefore can lead to confusion - regardless of what edition it comes from - we need a new term.

"It isn't hit dice, and it may not be dice at all, so why healing dice either?"

That may very well be the source of the disagreement. I had not seen any indication that the healing resource mechanism was going to be either optional or non-dice related. Can you please direct me to the article that was indicated in?
"And lets not pretend that we don't use terms from all editions, eh? This is a thing that never existed in any previous edition to 4e, but somehow it is better to have it referenced by the WRONG pre-4e term?"

No, I agree with you that Hit Dice is a terrible term for the mechanic. I just don't think Healing Surge is any better. If a mechanic doesn't match a players expectations and therefore can lead to confusion - regardless of what edition it comes from - we need a new term.

"It isn't hit dice, and it may not be dice at all, so why healing dice either?"

That may very well be the source of the disagreement. I had not seen any indication that the healing resource mechanism was going to be either optional or non-dice related. Can you please direct me to the article that was indicated in?

Well, Mike has said MANY times that healing is an area where all sorts of modules and options can exist. It is practically his poster child for the modular parts of the game. It would be pretty hard to imagine that every single module has to use this dice mechanism, that doesn't seem at all modular to me.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
But they are dice currently, and they heal. Healing dice is a cunning name for such a function.
What about Constitution Die?
The way I look at it any given character or monster is worth a certain amount of Hit Dice. Pre-4e these just determained Hit Points. Now they're also a pool of die you can roll to recover stamina each day.

Not that I wouldn't mind a different name for the mechanic but it kind of makes Hit Die a more common occurance. Think of it as different uses for the same mechanic instead of three different mechanics under similar names. 

Health Pool might be OK. It would tell us we're taking health from it and it's not specifically referring to the mechanic.


To be fair, not calling it what it is on the grounds that it might be a bias seems as silly as renaming the French and the English "Red and Blue" when they reenact the Battle of Trafalgar because they don't want to hurt the feelings of the French.


Having a name that accurately describes the mechanic, like healing dice, also allows us to give any alternate systems appropriate names that make it easier to communicate what you're doing. "I'm using fixed-value health pools" is more awkward than saying "we're on healing surges instead of healing dice."


We can let healing surges just be healing surges and allow for people who prefer them to use them in place of healing dice. Let the names be different; that's a helpful thing to do.

I want them to do more than healing its a nice resource with versatile possibility wherever anybody is using the word healing ... change it to Heroic or Hero.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I want them to do more than healing its a nice resource with versatile possibility wherever anybody is using the word healing ... change it to Heroic or Hero.



Well to be fair I've never liked the term hit dice even before. I remember my 10 year old brain hitting that term in my basic set and finding it fairly unfathomable so I just ignored it entirely.


Maybe they do have more plans for it? Whatever the intention might be, there's no other purpose in the playtest and that's really all we've got to go on. There isn't any further mention of what hit dice might do anywhere, is there?



Just had a brain wave. Hit dice could be a means to pull the class tables away from the mechanics of accessing special abilities. So a possible answer to the warlock's eldritch blast question when creating magic systems is you use hit dice for the eldritch blast damage rather than some independent scaling mechanism.


That'd create some strange irregularities, like the cleric based warlock doing more eldritch blast damage than the wizard based one, but the trade would be in the form of magic attack and spell selection I guess.


Thoughts?

I want them to do more than healing its a nice resource with versatile possibility wherever anybody is using the word healing ... change it to Heroic or Hero.



Well to be fair I've never liked the term hit dice even before. I remember my 10 year old brain hitting that term in my basic set and finding it fairly unfathomable so I just ignored it entirely.


Maybe they do have more plans for it? Whatever the intention might be, there's no other purpose in the playtest and that's really all we've got to go on. There isn't any further mention of what hit dice might do anywhere, is there?



Just had a brain wave. Hit dice could be a means to pull the class tables away from the mechanics of accessing special abilities. So a possible answer to the warlock's eldritch blast question when creating magic systems is you use hit dice for the eldritch blast damage rather than some independent scaling mechanism.


That'd create some strange irregularities, like the cleric based warlock doing more eldritch blast damage than the wizard based one, but the trade would be in the form of magic attack and spell selection I guess.


Thoughts?



Hmmm 4e allowed healing surges to be spent to fuel a few things beyond just healing (like activating magical devices).

I think since the melee/warrior classes are likely to have more or bigger in the case of HD, their use to allow extremes of heroic exertion for those types would be handy. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 



Well to be fair I've never liked the term hit dice even before. I remember my 10 year old brain hitting that term in my basic set and finding it fairly unfathomable so I just ignored it entirely.


Maybe they do have more plans for it? Whatever the intention might be, there's no other purpose in the playtest and that's really all we've got to go on. There isn't any further mention of what hit dice might do anywhere, is there?



Just had a brain wave. Hit dice could be a means to pull the class tables away from the mechanics of accessing special abilities. So a possible answer to the warlock's eldritch blast question when creating magic systems is you use hit dice for the eldritch blast damage rather than some independent scaling mechanism.


That'd create some strange irregularities, like the cleric based warlock doing more eldritch blast damage than the wizard based one, but the trade would be in the form of magic attack and spell selection I guess.


Thoughts?



Hmmm 4e allowed healing surges to be spent to fuel a few things beyond just healing (like activating magical devices).


I think since the melee/warrior classes are likely to have more or bigger in the case of HD, their use to allow extremes of heroic exertion for those types would be handy. 



Yeah the big danger with that is the difference between the wizard's d4 hit dice and the fighter's d10 hit dice. The balance would be in the wizard's spell selection and uses/day but you run the risk of high HD-value classes becoming "musclebound" with really only hit dice to work with. Still, you could roll combat superiority and rogue schemes into hit dice somehow.

The concepts are already distinct between a hit dice and healing surge, where the former is based on the class or creature hit dice, and the surge is one fourth the value of maximum hit points. I expect if a 4E module came into play, they would make hit dice healing the maximum effect versus rolling, and there is no reason that can't be done now. Although I prefer to keep healing random in combat and full outside of combat.

But it is something that can be extended out into other areas, like burning hit dice for heroic efforts versus healing.

What if we actually looked at what a hit die is and divorce the notion of a class always using the same die value per hit die. What if your hit dice was just a number.


So a fighter would roll HD in d10s for hp, but HD in d8 for combat superiority. I know the expertise dice scale slower than HD but the fact that the fighter has to worry about using those dice to heal themselves after would temper their use.


Course, that shifts combat superiority to a daily resource so that might not be so hot. Or you could bring back some recovery method for fighters. It could be driven by feats.


What if we actually looked at what a hit die is and divorce the notion of a class always using the same die value per hit die. What if your hit dice was just a number.


So a fighter would roll HD in d10s for hp, but HD in d8 for combat superiority. I know the expertise dice scale slower than HD but the fact that the fighter has to worry about using those dice to heal themselves after would temper their use.


Course, that shifts combat superiority to a daily resource so that might not be so hot. Or you could bring back some recovery method for fighters. It could be driven by feats.




It was suggested that it could be fuel for the more extreme moves not as a replacement for the round to round use of CS dice.,,, but I did myself consider rejiggering CS to be an encounter resource hence acting like fatigue.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

in our games we had some players who played older editions and found Hit Dice being used for 2 terms confusing

so the dice you trow to see how many HP you gain we called hit dice as this is what they where in the older editions aswell.

the hit dice you trow to regain hitpoits during a short rest we renamed to recovery dice 
the hit dice you trow to regain hitpoits during a short rest we renamed to recovery dice 

Agreed, calling them "recovery dice" would do a lot to reduce ambiguity.

The metagame is not the game.
They shouldn't be "hit" anything.  "Hit" implies I'm using that dice to attack some target, as in "to hit."  Yes, I know that 1e monsters used "hit dice" as a measure of a monster's vitality to get monster HP (and a general approximation of the monster's threat level) but that's still something you, the player, are trying to hit. 

It makes much more sense to use "healing" or "recovery" or some other term as the modifier of "dice" or "roll," in order to denote the actual function of these rolls, i.e., to gain some hp back during rest.  I think "healing roll" makes perfect sense.

It makes much more sense to use "healing" or "recovery" or some other term as the modifier of "dice" or "roll," in order to denote the actual function of these rolls, i.e., to gain some hp back during rest.  I think "healing roll" makes perfect sense.



I prefer recovery for the folowing reason you recover from being wounded but you also recover from being tired and out of breath.
so the word recovery works equaly well for people who play HP as mainly faitigue as for people who see Hp as actual wounds 
Actually, Garthanos had a very good point.  In 4e they were a pool of more than just healing.  Why then could they not be used for other things such as fueling heroic endevours?  A PC has a pool of dice (currently called 'hit dice') some of which can be used for healing during a short rest to recover lost hit points, they can provide a buffer (as in they are drained) for negative energy attacks, or they can be 'spent' during the course of the PC's day to grant advantage on one roll.