Palisade Giant and Damage Assingment

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This weekend at the prerelease there was a disagreement about how palisade giant worked. I think i have found in the comprehensive rules that I was correct however i am looking for confirmation on how this works for future problems.

Game State
NAP
4X 1/1 bird token
1x Palisade Giant

AP
4x 3/3 creatures

AP plays Rakdos Charm chosing to have each of opponents creatures deal 1 damage to him.
all damage redirects to giant he is now 2/7 (with 5 dmg assigned)
then AP attacks with 4x 3/3's. NAP choses not to block and claims that all damage dealt goes to the giant.
AP claims that not to be the case as the giant can only take 2 more damage and would only be able to
assign the damage of 1 of the 3/3's to it.

Tonight i decided to pull up the comprehensive rules and after reading the lawyerese, this is my current
understanding of what happens.
the attack happens and resolves. 4x 3 points of combat damage are assigned to the NAP. This triggers
Palisade Giant's ability and places 4 packets of 3 damage on the stack. the first will resolve. when it resolves
it checks conditions that placed it on the stack and resolves. Dealing 3 damage to the giant. at that point the giant dies.
the next packet goes to resolve, checks conditions and they no longer apply because the giant is dead. at that point
the damage would revert to original target do to an invalid condition of the damage being placed on the stack. the same
would happen with the 2 additional sets of combat damage.

This seems to be the way the rules read in combat damage, activated abilities, and resoving activated abilities
in the comprehensive rules. the result would not be an infinate combat damage shield but 9 damage being delt to player.
can someone, preferably a judge verify my understanding of the rules?
Please Autocard: [c]Palisade Giant[/c] = Palisade Giant
Rakdos Charm

That is not correct.  The palisade giant does not have a triggered ability, it has a replacement effect that redirectes damage to itself.  All damage done in combat (save first strike or double strike) is dealt at the same time so all 12 would be redirected to the palisade giant, it doesn't matter that it far exceeds the giants toughness.  After the damage is dealt state based actions are performed before a player would receive priority and destroy the palisade giant.  A replacement effect does not use the stack like a triggered ability does, all the damage is simply redirected instead of dealing the damage to the player. 

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

Question on this topic then.

Did wizards intend to give U/W an infinite combat shield?
Palisade Giant + Cackling Counterpart + populate
that was just the first combo i found like that.
with populate unless you have some direct removal you can only kill 1 giant a turn. i could have 40 creatures attacking and
never get through if they have Growing Ranks

seems a little crazy to be able to do this even if it would be a little difficult to start.
That's far from being remotely a viable combo, considering the cost of everything involved. If you manage to get it to happen for even a short time, congratulations are in order.

If it ever did become a problem, [C]Detention Sphere[/c] or any sweeper would make short work of it.

Did wizards intend to give U/W an infinite combat shield?



This is not a rules question.  You'd probably have better luck talking about this in cards and combo's.
 

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

510.1b An unblocked creature assigns its combat damage to the player or planeswalker it’s attacking. [...]

510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. [...]

"Four sources simultaneously deal 3 damage each to the NAP" becomes "four sources simultaneously deal 3 damage each to the Pallisade Giant".

As for your new question, I'm sure that [C=Growing Ranks]repeatable populate[/C] leads to many powerful engines, but keep in mind that yours is shut down by either a creature removal or an enchantment removal.
ok found the major confusion for me. i was treating it as a triggered ability. instead it's a static ability just didn't seem right and way overpowered for the cost to work that way.
Triggered abilities are identified by the use of the words "when", "whenever", or "at". Replacement effects are usually identified by the word "instead", as in "If [something would happen], [something else happens] instead."

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

If Palisade Giant dies during the first strike damage step, any attacking creatures that did not deal combat damage during first strike damage will deal their damage to the defending player or planeswalker.

Rules Advisor

Cause then the damage won't be simultaneous, but across two steps. Any seven damage that's done before the combat damage would do it, not just First Strike.
What about if the creatures that attack have trample? could they then assign only lethal damage to the giant and continue to the player?

 And a second question is

 If <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[Palisade]+[Giant]" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Palisade Giant</a> is enchanted with Ghostly Possession  the damage the unblocked centaurs do will be prevented?  

And what happend if you have more than one giant? which one gets the damage  in a unblocked attack?
they can assign damage like that (if the Giant is blocking)
but the trample damage will just be redirected to the Giant


with Ghostly Possession you basically have a constant Safe Passage on yourself (for combat damage at least)


if you control more than 1 giant you get to decide for each source of damage which giant will get it
proud member of the 2011 community team
They could do that, but the trampling damage will be redirected to the giant anyhow.

Yes, the giant doesn't change the source of the damage, so it's still combat damage.

For each source, you choose which of the giants it damages. 
All Generalizations are Bad
then those Azor's Elocutors aren't that far fetched rigth?

 thanks a lot
then those Azor's Elocutors aren't that far fetched rigth?

Unless they're accompanied by Viral Drake...

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

if you control more than 1 giant you get to decide for each source of damage which giant will get it



For each source, you choose which of the giants it damages. 



This ruling from Pariah contradicts this and my first thought on this matter was also, that you have to choose one Giant to take all the damage:

10/4/2004 All damage being dealt to you at one time gets redirected to one Pariah. If you take 3 damage at once, all 3 damage goes to one Pariah. If you take damage from multiple creatures in combat, all the combat damage goes to one Pariah.

Is this ruling outdated? Pariahis an almost exact analogy to Palisade Giant, the Giant merely applies to permanants taking damage as well.
Since Pariah and Pallisade Giant don't specify from a source, I would assume that when you apply the replacement effect you apply it to all damage that is about to occur, not just the damage from one source.  Therefore all the damage would be shifted to one giant when you apply it's effect, then when you apply the second giant's effect all the damage  woukld be shift to that giant.  Howver I am not at all sure about this logic so I might well be wrong.
The damage is all dealt together, and Palisade Giant sees it as one event. You can redirect to one giant or the other, but you can't split the damage up even if it came from multiple sources (say, a pair of Armada Wurms).

This is similar to how Lich works. If you get attacked by two 1/1s, you don't get priority in between sacrificing the two permanents.
This ruling from Pariah contradicts this and my first thought on this matter was also, that you have to choose one Giant to take all the damage:

10/4/2004 All damage being dealt to you at one time gets redirected to one Pariah. If you take 3 damage at once, all 3 damage goes to one Pariah. If you take damage from multiple creatures in combat, all the combat damage goes to one Pariah.

Is this ruling outdated? Pariahis an almost exact analogy to Palisade Giant, the Giant merely applies to permanants taking damage as well.

The ability says that you must redirect all the damage.

Pariah works the same way.
Any damage coming your way is first grabbed by one Giant.
Then the damage intended for that Giant (original damage + grabbed damage) is grabbed by the SECOND Giant.

No splitting possible.

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

I know there hasn't been any posting in this thread in a while, but if anyone sees this, a response would be much appreciated.
How does Palisade Giant's ability play out if you control a card with an activated ability that prevents damage??
I've been reading through the comprehensive rules trying to figure it out, but I'm still not 100% sure.
Can I use the activated ability to prevent damage in that way first, or does all damage automatically get redirected to Palisade Giant??
In the future, just start a new thread.

Give an example of what you're talking about.

Rules Advisor

next time please make a new thread

if there is another damage prevention you choose in which order to apply both replacement effects
so you choose how it plays out, for example you first prevent 3 damage with Healing Salve and then redirect the rest to the Giant

or redirect first to the Giant and then Healing Salve no longer applies (I'm assuming you cast the Salve on yourself)
proud member of the 2011 community team
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