Jund Midrange

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I originally wanted to do G/B Midrange, but realizing that it kinda lacked what it need to work tech wise and card pool wise, decided to go Jund colors instead and was wondering what you guys thought.


Land 25
4x overgrown tombs
3x blood crypts
2x rootbound crag
3x woodland cematary
3x forest
5x swamp  
2x mountain
3x dragonskull summit


creatures   17
4x rakdos cackler
3x lotleth troll
2x predator ooze
4x stangleroot geist
2x vorapede
2x deadbridge goliath

Spells 18 
3x abrupt decay
3x ultimate prize
4x duress
2x faithless looting
4x searing spear
2x appetite for brains

this is what I have roughly so far.. I think the mana base is actually fairly decent.. The problems I can see right off the get go are.. Card advantage, sweepers and if I have to add either more burn or early turn aggro.. 
   
I also have S/B card ideas
vexing devil
sign in blood
rakdos guild leader dude
auger spree
dreadbore
hmm...no comments, no suggestions. guess its perfectish..
Jund has always been about the biggest, baddest stuff in those colors, That being said, I think some things need to be reworked. (and Actually, I'm working on a Jund Midrange myself) 

Predator ooze is kinda stressful on your manabase. But playtesting may proove me otherwise, so disregard this if it does work on T3 often.

Dreg mangler Is just good. I say it's worth being in a jund deck.
Hellhole flailer A strong creature that supplies you with reach in the lategame. 
Deathrite shaman excellent tech.
Thragtusk Obligatory. Just an all-around great creature, even without Restoration angel shenanigans
Thundermaw hellkite Super-amazing awesome time
Rancor very powerful
Rakdos, lord of riots huge threat, 1 mana thragtusks T5 for fun times, enabled further by Rancor
Falkenrath Aristocrat If you want something scary that hits hard, if you don't mind saccing now and again
Huntmaster of the fells More solid creature. 
Mizzium mortars triple red is hard, but 1-sided board wipe at 4 dollars is okay with me
Blood artist not really abusable here, but it never hurts, some life gain and burn is always neat to have.
Brimstone volley Because things are going to die, and you need to be there with 5 to the face

SB cards are gunna look something like:
Slaughter games because knowing your meta is power
Pillar of flame Be ready for dem zambies.

This is a lot to process, but good stuff. Hope this helps.
Jund colors have a ton of options. But I am fairly certain you will want to have some kind of manafixing. Either keyrunes (I think rakdos has the  best) or farseek. I am not sure this is the right deck for rakdos cackler, since you will be colliding with a lot of centaurs and thragtusks. 

You should maybe have couple evolving wilds as colorfixers too.

I agree with above poster that Thragtusk is too good to pass up.  

ps. Jund midrange might be a pretty good home for desecration demon.. 
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild
Not to be combative, but I would do extensive testing to make sure you need mana fixing. You don't want to slow yourself down. I also am not a huge fan of the lotleth trolls. There really aren't any cards in there disposable enough to just pitch for +1/+1 counters, especially with no reanimation subtheme.
Oh and one other thing that Helluminatus's post reminded me. If you're running lotleth trolls, you will be running gravecrawlers instead of rakdos cacklers. Because of the zombie aspect, more dreg manglers is propably good idea too. Lotleth troll + gravecrawler is begging  for full set of rancors. 
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild
Jund has always been about the biggest, baddest stuff in those colors, That being said, I think some things need to be reworked. (and Actually, I'm working on a Jund Midrange myself) 

Predator ooze is kinda stressful on your manabase. But playtesting may proove me otherwise, so disregard this if it does work on T3 often.

Dreg mangler Is just good. I say it's worth being in a jund deck.
Hellhole flailer A strong creature that supplies you with reach in the lategame. 
Deathrite shaman excellent tech.
Thragtusk Obligatory. Just an all-around great creature, even without Restoration angel shenanigans
Thundermaw hellkite Super-amazing awesome time
Rancor very powerful
Rakdos, lord of riots huge threat, 1 mana thragtusks T5 for fun times, enabled further by Rancor
Falkenrath Aristocrat If you want something scary that hits hard, if you don't mind saccing now and again
Huntmaster of the fells More solid creature. 
Mizzium mortars triple red is hard, but 1-sided board wipe at 4 dollars is okay with me
Blood artist not really abusable here, but it never hurts, some life gain and burn is always neat to have.
Brimstone volley Because things are going to die, and you need to be there with 5 to the face

SB cards are gunna look something like:
Slaughter games because knowing your meta is power
Pillar of flame Be ready for dem zambies.

This is a lot to process, but good stuff. Hope this helps.




Hmm, I'll have to try both the mangler and the predator.. I was debating on adding Rakdos himself but decided to cut him due to being double black and red..  The huntmaster might actually do quite well in this deck actually..

Not to be combative, but I would do extensive testing to make sure you need mana fixing. You don't want to slow yourself down. I also am not a huge fan of the lotleth trolls. There really aren't any cards in there disposable enough to just pitch for +1/+1 counters, especially with no reanimation subtheme.




I'm more or less using him as a two drop...but late game he might also be good. Will have a better analysis once I playtest the deck..
Jund colors have a ton of options. But I am fairly certain you will want to have some kind of manafixing. Either keyrunes (I think rakdos has the  best) or farseek. I am not sure this is the right deck for rakdos cackler, since you will be colliding with a lot of centaurs and thragtusks. 

You should maybe have couple evolving wilds as colorfixers too.

I agree with above poster that Thragtusk is too good to pass up.  

ps. Jund midrange might be a pretty good home for desecration demon.. 



I was wanting to use the cacklers as some early aggro and blockers. But I do agree with you on the mana searching, the other thing I was also concerned with was board sweeps in case token or g/w decks got out of hand..

I originally wanted to do G/B Midrange, but realizing that it kinda lacked what it need to work tech wise and card pool wise, decided to go Jund colors instead and was wondering what you guys thought.


Land 25
4x overgrown tombs
3x blood crypts
2x rootbound crag
3x woodland cematary
3x forest
5x swamp  
2x mountain
3x dragonskull summit


creatures   17
4x rakdos cackler
3x lotleth troll
2x predator ooze
4x stangleroot geist
2x vorapede
2x deadbridge goliath

Spells 18 
3x abrupt decay
3x ultimate prize
4x duress
2x faithless looting
4x searing spear
2x appetite for brains

this is what I have roughly so far.. I think the mana base is actually fairly decent.. The problems I can see right off the get go are.. Card advantage, sweepers and if I have to add either more burn or early turn aggro.. 
   
I also have S/B card ideas
vexing devil
sign in blood
rakdos guild leader dude
auger spree
dreadbore


holy crap this deck is all over the place and running a lot of things it shouldn't be

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

I originally wanted to do G/B Midrange, but realizing that it kinda lacked what it need to work tech wise and card pool wise, decided to go Jund colors instead and was wondering what you guys thought.


Land 25
4x overgrown tombs
3x blood crypts
2x rootbound crag
3x woodland cematary
3x forest
5x swamp  
2x mountain
3x dragonskull summit


creatures   17
4x rakdos cackler
3x lotleth troll
2x predator ooze
4x stangleroot geist
2x vorapede
2x deadbridge goliath

Spells 18 
3x abrupt decay
3x ultimate prize
4x duress
2x faithless looting
4x searing spear
2x appetite for brains

this is what I have roughly so far.. I think the mana base is actually fairly decent.. The problems I can see right off the get go are.. Card advantage, sweepers and if I have to add either more burn or early turn aggro.. 
   
I also have S/B card ideas
vexing devil
sign in blood
rakdos guild leader dude
auger spree
dreadbore


holy crap this deck is all over the place and running a lot of things it shouldn't be


the

Okay..so I did see an innistrad version of jund with only 8 creatures and seemed more controlling.. What would you recemend for the new standard.. Cause I hate to be overly critical, but your information isnt exactly viable, with your replied sentance..    

Burning forest can be a bit of a one-inch puch.

My guess is that what he's getting at is that your deck has a lot of "cards", and synergy/overall theme is lacking.  
Your build is stretched out in an odd way. You gotta try to focus more on a particular strategy. You said midrange, but you are playing Cackler and Strangleroot Geist, both of which are cards for more aggressive decks. Also Faithless Looting feels out of place in this deck since it doesn't have any real way to regain value from the negative card advantage it generates. And, the four Duress and two Appetite for Brains seems like they would be better in the sideboard(the cards themselves, not those numbers of each). Also your mana curve is really odd. You have four Strangleroot Geists and two Predator Ooze, but your playing more swamps then forests. Oh, and don't put Vexing Devil in your sideboard. Or the maindeck. I don't think I'd put it in any deck really. And for your sweeper issue; Mizzium Mortars, Bonfire of the Damned, and Sever the Bloodline are all good options.
I get what your saying there.. I think I'm gonna rework a new list, focusing more on being fine tuned towards rock.. Adding a bit more controll and see if I can find some devestating midrange creature finishers..
I get what your saying there.. I think I'm gonna rework a new list, focusing more on being fine tuned towards rock.. Adding a bit more controll and see if I can find some devestating midrange creature finishers..




Also, due to being three colors should I not go with an aggresive start if I want to be midrange.. Cause if thats the case the Shaman would be amazing for Jund.. The only thing I'm having trouble putting in is card advantage, or mana ramping in to either have more responses to threats or searching for the lands I need.. (and how to actually have both which would be awsome..) 
I get what your saying there.. I think I'm gonna rework a new list, focusing more on being fine tuned towards rock.. Adding a bit more controll and see if I can find some devestating midrange creature finishers..




Also, due to being three colors should I not go with an aggresive start if I want to be midrange.. Cause if thats the case the Shaman would be amazing for Jund.. The only thing I'm having trouble putting in is card advantage, or mana ramping in to either have more responses to threats or searching for the lands I need.. (and how to actually have both which would be awsome..) 



You could play a bit of early game ramp to help you start getting to your midgame sooner (Farseek works great for ramp and fixing). And you can generate card advantage through creatures like Thragtusk, Borderland Ranger (who also helps you find the lands you need), Huntmaster of the Fells; and by using spells that can take out multiple of your opponents cards at a time like Bonfire of the Damned or an overloaded Mizzium Mortars or Sever the Bloodline.
I am looking to do a midrange Jund deck

lands 24
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blood Crypt
4x Woodland Cemetery
4x Rootbound Crag
5x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Mountain

1 drops
4x Arbor Elf
2x Rancor

2 drops
4x Farseek
4x Dreadbore
4x Abrupt Decay

3 drops
4x Keyrune(proably Rakdos maybe a 2/2 split)
4x Wolfir Avenger

4 drops
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Desecration Demons

5 drops
3x Thragtusk
2x Garruk Primal Hunter

X spells
2x Bonfire of the Damned 

Sideboard
4x Duress
11x other cards 


I'm not sure if there is too much ramp. Maybe switch the Arbor ELves out for the Duress. 
My decks: Jund Rock
I am looking to do a midrange Jund deck

lands 24
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blood Crypt
4x Woodland Cemetery
4x Rootbound Crag
5x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Mountain

1 drops
4x Arbor Elf
2x Rancor

2 drops
4x Farseek
4x Dreadbore
4x Abrupt Decay

3 drops
4x Keyrune(proably Rakdos maybe a 2/2 split)
4x Wolfir Avenger

4 drops
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Desecration Demons

5 drops
3x Thragtusk
2x Garruk Primal Hunter

X spells
2x Bonfire of the Damned 

Sideboard
4x Duress
11x other cards 


I'm not sure if there is too much ramp. Maybe switch the Arbor ELves out for the Duress. 


this might sound strange, but i'd almost rather run avacyn's pilgrim over arbor elf here for a mana dork, because you only have 9 forests to use.  if you play arbor elf off a wooded cemetery or somethign, then you just have a random 1/1 vanila in play.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

Jund doesn't need mana dorks.  You should be fine with 3-4 Farseek, and possibly a couple Borderland Ranger (or Dawntreader Elk, heh).

I've been cramming abysmal quantities of games with all manners of Jund builds, and reading a lot, and working with a lot of competitive test groups.  It basically looks like there are two directions to take competitive Jund Midrange decks.  One's a more controlling route, the other is more aggressive/proactive.

The problem is figuring out which is more relevant, and largely that just depends on what decks come out of the gate at the first few IQ's, SCG's and etc.

Lemme post up the lists, and hopefully we can turn this thread into an intelligent brainstorm zone for competitive Jund.


Midrange Control:

4 Farseek
2 Tragic Slip
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dreadbore
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Sign in Blood
2 Garruk Relentless
(22)

4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Thragtusk
2 Olivia Voldaren
(14)

4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Kessig Wolf Run
(24)




Midrange Beatdown:

3 Farseek
3 Pillar of Flame
1 Tragic Slip
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Dreadbore
3 Bonfire of the Damned
(15)

4 Strangleroot Geist/Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Borderland Ranger
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Thragtusk
1 Wolfir Silverheart
(21)

4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Blood Crypt
5 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Kessig Wolf Run
(24)


Similar ideas, but they do run differently.  They're both Jund, i.e. they're shooting for value with power.  In testing, they're both solid against aggro (Zombies, WW, etc.), with the Control version being marginally stronger there.  They both struggle with Bant beatdown and Selesnya Ramp.  They're both pretty solid against control, with the Beatdown version obviously shining there.


Nighthawk - not inherently a value card, but it's so well poised against stuff  the deck needs to beat.  Great against Zombies, GoST, Sigarda, and other stuff we otherwise can't kill.

STRG vs. Loltroll - Hasty beaters are gold right now because 90% all good removal is sorcery speed.  He's aggressive when you need it and a bitchin' blocker when you need it.  Troll is resilient, but requires more coddling.  Not sure here yet, but right now I think STRG is what we want.

Olivia - she's the best 6 drop in Jund right now.  She wins you more games than any other single card.  So controlling it's silly.

Sign in Blood - you're looking for 2-for-1 value, often to find the removal or threat you need.  Borderland Ranger and Elvish Visionary don't do this as well for controllier lists, IMO.

Notable omissions:

Rakdos's Return is a blowout versus Bant, Selesnya and X/X/x control matchups.  If it weren't so unnecessary against aggro, it would be MD-able as a 2-of. 

Mizzium Mortars is getting a lot of talk.  I don't like it anymore.  I liked it when I thought it was an instant.  I'll leave it at that.

Pardon the novel here, but let's drum up some shenanigans.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Your post is the sort of post that should be the OP for each of the big expected archetypes post-rotation.

Have you tested out the matchup between Jund midrange decks against Junk variants a decent amount?
Your post is the sort of post that should be the OP for each of the big expected archetypes post-rotation.

Have you tested out the matchup between Jund midrange decks against Junk variants a decent amount?


Thanks man, glad the post is useful. 

I've tested against Junk midrange and that deck just isn't that hot.  Unless it's a version like what BBD has up on SCG, but that's because his deck was straight Selesnya with a couple black sideboard cards.  I've also tested against Niche's Junk reanimator deck.  With the Jund Beatdown version I went 5-2 against it pre-board and 5-1'd it post-board, siding in 3 Appetite for Brains, 2 Sever the Bloodline and 2 Cremate (*Edit, and another Dreadbore).  Reanimator has a huge ability to stall, but that's fine if we can deal with its stabilization, since the lategame is the only worrisome part.


catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Yeah I've tested out several Junk lists, including the Reanimator one that Niche posted here and I've been having good matchups so far, but I haven't had a chance to test against Jund much. Junk can stall awhile with Lingering Souls, Thragtusk plus Unburial Rites, and Centaur Healer. But I would assume that the life gain and stalling isn't as important as which deck can get more card for card value in the matchup (Although that is probably different against a Junk Reanimator deck though since their end game involves seven/eight drop fatties). For the most part I think the big cards Junk has over Jund are Unburial Rites, Restoration Angel, and possibly Armada Wurm. But, regardless of whether your playing a more Rock style Jund deck or an aggressive one with Dreg Mangler and Falkenrath Aristocrat I would guess that having access to Mizzium Mortars and/or Bonfire of the Damned could give Jund an edge in the G/x midrange sort of mirror.
Yeah, both the Jund lists I posted are good in aggressive midrange grinds.  They're hard, but I find them favorable.  My creature value is usually equal at the worst, and I have way more removal.  Bonfire is a clear blowout against decks that try to stall you.  Unburial Rites is fine value, but it still comes down on turn four at the earliest, which against Jund means I probably still have an answer to whatever single fatty you just plunked. It also means they've been setting up, which means I've been beating.  The harder games are the grindy ones.

I mentioned it in another thread, but the worst matchup I've encountered so far was a Selesnya deck more or less like this:

Show

4 Farseek
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Cloudshift

4 Dawntreader Elk
4 Centaur Healer
4 Trostani
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
4 Armada Wurm

24 Land

To beat a deck like this, my sideboarding thus far has been primarily 3 Appetite for Brains and 2 Rakdos's Return... it's really hard.


The reasons I'm not worried about Reanimator with Jund (beatdown version I've tested more) are that I have a clock, Bonfire beats its stalls, its reanimation early means Dreadbore kills Griselbrand, and its reanimation late means I probably already beat it via my first two points.  Post board I snip the lategame or exile the fatties or snip the graveyard. 

That said, its lategame is immensely powerful, and if on rare occassion the pieces aren't coming together for me, it's tough to come back from a Griselbrand that sticks.  I've definitely tested that matchup well over twenty games, and from my notes it's about 75% favorable for Jund.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
With some of the things said I changed into this. Slight Changes here and there but I think this might be a pretty strong list.

lands 24
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blood Crypt
4x Woodland Cemetery
4x Rootbound Crag
5x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Kessig Wolf Run

1 drops
2x Rancor

2 drops
3x Farseek
4x Dreadbore
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Sign in Blood


3 drops
4x Rakdos Keyrune
4x Wolfir Avenger

4 drops
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Desecration Demon

5 drops
3x Thragtusk
2x Garruk Primal Hunter

X spells
2x Bonfire of the Damned 

Sideboard
4x Duress
11x other cards 



My decks: Jund Rock
What do you think about Vraska? Is it worthwhile as a 1 of or 2 of.
My decks: Jund Rock
I think you'd  mainly want Vraska against control or the angel of  serenity decks, so maybe sideboard.

I like the cards in  the last list above. I think I'm going to build something similar soon. There were some versions that ran strangleroot geist as a creature that could be both defensive and offensive  as needed. I like that idea too.

I think huntmaster is greatly overrated, I havent seen it actually DO anything in ages. Usually its just 4 mana, 2/2 gain 2 life and thats it. Never flipping. There must be better options. 
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild
Honestly I don't think there is a better 4-drop than Huntmaster. My 5-drops are where I am iffy on. Between Thragtusk, Garruk, Bloodgift Demon, Vraska I am not sure which to run. Right now I think 3x Thragtusk and 2x plneswalkers(probably Garruk) Also I believe I am dropping one Keyrune for an extra farseek. Honestly I think this can be a strong deck if we can get the right build.

I am also wondering if the Bonfire count should go up or stay at 2 main. Or if Mizzium Mortars might actually be a better card for this deck. 
My decks: Jund Rock
Honestly I don't think there is a better 4-drop than Huntmaster.  



olivia is a freakin' house right now

. My 5-drops are where I am iffy on. Between Thragtusk.... 



start with 4 tragtusks and beyond that you shoudln't need a lot more 5 drops... they're 5 drops after all.  garruk should be played out of the board for certain matchups, but you shouldn't need much more than 4 tusks in the main.
 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

I'm actually thinking about a 3x huntmaster/2x Olivia split with 4x thragtusk. I'll see how this runs. 
5-drops aren't too hard to cast with the ramp and so forth. 
My decks: Jund Rock
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