4E CharOp is done

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Yeah, yeah, ominous thread title fail, w/e. 

I dunno if anyone saw this little tidbit in the new submission guidelines:

Mechanics

We are not looking for articles that add new mechanical elements (such as powers and feats) to the game. The current edition contains thousands of these elements, and the digital tools (D&D Character Builder, D&D Compendium, et al.) are bloated with options. We will only publish new mechanics if we find the underlying story extremely compelling and the mechanics are necessary to support the narrative.


It'll be another year or so before the articles that are submitted during this window will be published, but given that mechanical content is already nonexistent in today's magazines, I'd say that we're now officially done with character optimization. The classes have been solved, the new content flow has stopped, what more is there to do? Well, except put together a slimmer, neater 4th Edition of course.
More or less.

I'm even running low on silly things to optimize.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The classes have not been solved.


Could you be more specific? 
Is anyone surprised by this?  Nine months ago they announced a new edition.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Is anyone surprised by this?  Nine months ago they announced a new edition.



I'm honestly surprised we've gotten as much as we have since then.
Ah, kinda sucky to come home to news this bad.

Oh well, at least the Epic adventures will continue coming out for a while...
I dunno, Next is not coming out next year (ha ha), and they still say they're looking for class acts and winning races...
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Mearls says Next isn't coming out til 2014.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
The classes have not been solved.

Revenant (half-elf) with twin-strike.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Charge kit with KAM. 
lol, it does seem like the flow of builds has taken a nose dive in past months.  But still, we should all be proud of what we achieved together.    CharOP has helped perhaps thousands of people along the way and that's something to be proud of.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
There was this show in the '70s
(before my time) ... called Archie Bunker.
They'd sing a song slightly off intentionally.
The last line was:  "Those Were The Days !!"
... except the Mom couldn't sing the last note
with her fake singing voice, she had to use
her real voice from her opera days.

Cheers

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

It was called All in the Family.
WHAT?? There was another reason for optimizing besides the pleasure of annnoying the crap out of the DM by easily slaying things way above your level and then asking if this was the low level encounter of the day?

*blinks*

Balancing the game seems so.... out of character xD
It was called All in the Family.



One of the over half dozen spin-offs and sequals was called Archie Bunkers place.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
It was called All in the Family.

One of the over half dozen spin-offs and sequals was called Archie Bunkers place.


Gah!
I failed my Knowledge (70's kitsch) check.
Err ... I mean I failed my Intelligence check.
I shoulda used Sage Of Ages but I was sustaining Dusk Oracle 12 at the moment ... (drat)


Anyway, the 3.0e and 3.5e C.O. board has kept at it for another 5+ years.
It's not like all of the combos of 4e have been discovered.
5e/Next will have some obvious ports of 4e in it.
And yeah we want to tear it up too.

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

We could always shift into Character Re-Creation Optimization? That always seems to cause pages and pages of debate. Port Disney Villans into 4e
like Ursula: would she be a wildshape druid|wizard(witch)?
Jafar from Aladin: dragon sorcerer?

I just built my interpritation of Lelouch Vi Britania of the anime Code Geass for an epic game.

Just because we have already found most of the combos doesnt mean we cant atleast optimize CONCEPT builds instead of general builds 
81259321 wrote:
My new rule for people who are obtuse is to just assume they're purposefully trolling. It makes me less sad for humanity that way.
refluff
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
refluff


Cheap cop-out

Afterall, you guys don't have anymore new stuff coming out to optimize

What else is CharOp gonna spend its time on in this board, hmm? 
81259321 wrote:
My new rule for people who are obtuse is to just assume they're purposefully trolling. It makes me less sad for humanity that way.
We could always shift into Character Re-Creation Optimization? That always seems to cause pages and pages of debate. Port Disney Villans into 4e
like Ursula: would she be a wildshape druid|wizard(witch)?
Jafar from Aladin: dragon sorcerer?

I just built my interpritation of Lelouch Vi Britania of the anime Code Geass for an epic game.

Just because we have already found most of the combos doesnt mean we cant atleast optimize CONCEPT builds instead of general builds 

Handbooks cover most of that.


What else is CharOp gonna spend its time on in this board, hmm?

Number of origions?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

refluff


Cheap cop-out

Afterall, you guys don't have anymore new stuff coming out to optimize

What else is CharOp gonna spend its time on in this board, hmm? 



I didn't realize of our time had to spent here?
Doing meaningless silly things vs. doing nothing is not the dichotomy here.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Well, if you guys are looking for things to do, I have a whole re-write of 4E I'm working on Right now, it'd be less "CharOp" and more "find the huge, glaring failure modes"...
They're in your marketing/business plan?

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

They're in your marketing/business plan?



Nah. Not even bothering with one of those. Just seeing what I can morph things into, starting with the 3.5SRD.
I certainly wouldn't mind if some folks in the community shifted towards content creation as official support dries up, with an emphasis on filling some support gaps and balancing classes, although I wouldn't go so far as a complete re-write of the edition.


I've got some things in mind for the Sorcerer, which I've been meaning to submit since last spring...


Are there any other classes or ideas that could use some support?
I would assume pretty much any PHB 2/3 class/race could use some love.

I have no desire to mess with any of the Psionic classes though.

Casual Magic player since 2003 (Onslaught Block). 60% Johnny, 40% Timmy. Want a free, graphics-based, collection database to inventory your cards? I made one! Feedback welcome. Program runs offline, includes powerful search options, art, Oracle text, data import/export, and a rigorously updated list of every card ever printed. Version 5.13 (Theros) now available!

So. Green needs an iconic creature type, eh? How about wurms!

One Billion Words - 1001 Fantasy Landscapes: Share DnD-ish landscapes for use in homebrew campaigns!

The Barbarian would love some love, especially in the minor/free action rage department.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Dragonswrath all of the PHB 2&3 strikers need better strikery paragon paths.  Wardens could use a few more paths.

Runepriest has barely gotten any support.  Seekers could use some more support too.

Shamans need a few better encounter powers and it would be nice if each spirit type had power rider options for each level, which eagle, worldspeaker and animist sometimes lack.  They need an AC patch feat too and a way to get third class at will would be nice.  Besides that the class doesn't need much.

Several of the essentials classes need more support: cavalier, binder, sentinel, blackguard and vampire all could use help.
Hunter, too.  But then, the Hunter would benefit from complete rewriting to turn it into what it could and should have been.

Binder, I'd dearly love to see re-imagined as a pet class.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Hunter, too.  But then, the Hunter would benefit from complete rewriting to turn it into what it could and should have been.

Binder, I'd dearly love to see re-imagined as a pet class.

Sadly, the best thing about the Binder was Touch of Command which could be stolen by full Warlocks

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Runepriest needs a level 2 minor action save granter, and another rune feat or 5.  They also need a way to boost their default runestates, by making the area bigger.  Cculd be a rune feat.  

Extended Destruction (rune): Your runestate of destruction affects enemies withing a number of squares equal to the number of rune feats you have.

Extended Protection (rune): Your runestate of protection affects allies withing a number of squares equal to the number of rune feats you have.


And all classes need a "you can use your 2 in place of any stat in any of your powers.  This increases to 3 at level 8, 4 at level 14, 5 at level 21, and 6 at level 28".  So a Str/Cha warlord can reasonably use Reorient the Axis and Commanders Strike.

Also, "you qualify for any special rider on any power.  (I.E. Dragon Sorcerer's can get the secondary attack from Chaos Bolt).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'd dearly love to see rather less diversity among pet rules.

The Sentinel's animal companion, the Beastmaster Ranger's animal companion, the Shaman's spirit companion, the arcane character's familiar, the Fey Beast Companion, the Thrallherd's thralls, the Druid's summons, and the Wizard's summons (did I miss any? Cleric summons afaik have the same rules as Wizard summons), all have different rules for how they move and whether they can share a move action with their master, whether they get OAs, whether they get instinctive actions, whether they can attack, whether they can flank and otherwise count as allies, and so on. 

I doubt there can be One Rule To Ring Them All, but perhaps it could be reduced from 8+ to two or three...
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
I'd dearly love to see rather less diversity among pet rules.

The Sentinel's animal companion, the Beastmaster Ranger's animal companion, the Shaman's spirit companion, the arcane character's familiar, the Fey Beast Companion, the Thrallherd's thralls, the Druid's summons, and the Wizard's summons (did I miss any? Cleric summons afaik have the same rules as Wizard summons), all have different rules for how they move and whether they can share a move action with their master, whether they get OAs, whether they get instinctive actions, whether they can attack, whether they can flank and otherwise count as allies, and so on. 

I doubt there can be One Rule To Ring Them All, but perhaps it could be reduced from 8+ to two or three...



Invokers and artificers have summons.  In defense of the spirit companion, that shouldn't be seen as a "pet" so much as a node of "I can make melee attacks from here" that can be disrupted by attacks.  Familiars I doubt should be used in combat anyway, but the rest?  Put summons all on one page (angels should be able to think for themselves, dammit!) and animal companions on another, preferably the one used by sentinels and Fey Beast Tamers, yah?

On a related note:  Ranger beast powers need improvement badly.  I'd like to be able to play one and actually have my wolf attack sometimes and not suck at it, wouldn't you? 
The Barbarian would love some love, especially in the minor/free action rage department.



What the barb really needs is a good class-specific damage feat and a level 1 encounter double tap. Better rages would be nice, but barb rages are forever condemned to be fourth-class effects. Best to boost what is good about them, not throw good money after bad.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
In defense of the spirit companion, that shouldn't be seen as a "pet" so much as a node of "I can make melee attacks from here" that can be disrupted by attacks.


Really? Because mechanically, they're the only pet class done right.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Hunter, too.  But then, the Hunter would benefit from complete rewriting to turn it into what it could and should have been.

Binder, I'd dearly love to see re-imagined as a pet class.

The Beastmaster Ranger needs significant work.

I have defiantly “borrowed” much more than I ever gave. You guys are simply much better at the Op’ing that I am. I’ve found and commented on a few small things. Current favorite is a Midnight blade and a enshrouding candle.


     Anyway I submitted an article to fix mounts, and to introduce leveling figurines of wondrous power. Obviously it was never accepted. I’d love to join everyone in creating or readdressing content. The issue is the game licensing. In 3.5 they had a oops and opened the license up enough where pathfinder was able to drive a truck into it. They won’t make that mistake again. I have a ½ developed game world that I’d love to finish and post up for folks to download and play in. But I don’t think WOTC would ever let anyone take over like that anymore. But there has to be some middle ground, otherwise “Living Divine” wouldn’t exist.


What we need is some of the real good optimizers to optimize the current game license and figure out where the group could develop more material, or at least fix what’s there. i.e. what the heck do you mean I can’t pick Ninja as a executioner hybrid.. 


Seriously though thank you guys for all your posts, I really enjoyed reading most of them, and even employing a few.

I would love to see an overhaul of the feat list. Completely removing redundant and obsolete feats.

I agree with needing to figure out pet classes. Beastmaster Rangers have been broken since day one.

Perhaps some love to Seekers, Binders, etc. would be nice. For Seekers I could see adding a controller version of a Striker mechanic. Similar to a Bladesinger but not as sucky.

Something like:   " Nature's Vengeance      Minor action, at-will.  A creature within 10 sqs is subject to Nature's Vengeance. Once per round, when that creature is hit by an attack, it can be knocked prone as a free action. "
In defense of the spirit companion, that shouldn't be seen as a "pet" so much as a node of "I can make melee attacks from here" that can be disrupted by attacks.


Really? Because mechanically, they're the only pet class done right.


Hey, when I think "pet" I come to "additional sack of HP that can bite back," which the spirit companion doesn't really cover.  The PC shouldn't have to do all the work if he's got one, which the shaman does, here. Laughing
@Nightray: It's called Avalon, and I'm currently working on it, though slowly because of work. It's not gonna be a 4e 'Trailblazer' though - while playing Paizo to WotC might be lucrative, I've got a bit more pride than they do and would rather make a really good game that improves 4e instead of retreading it. So ninja would still be unpickable as a hybrid executioner...as hybrid executioners wouldn't exist in the first place.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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