need help with a vampire spawn

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yes i did put this in the previous editions general but it was about an entirely diffrent reason, now im looking for a good way to make the most out of this build for my wife which mind you isnt really a huge gamer so keeping it fairly simple is the best option. Her levels as of right now (may change depending on whats best) Vampire Spawn 8/ chaos monk (has the replacement feature of standing jump) 6/ thief acrobat 4. I wanted to make the most out of the level drain and acrobatics (since i think that would give her the most enjoyment) what i need is a character that still plays to being a vampire acrobat and is party friendly as possible (eliminates or lessens some weaknesses so travel is easier) 550000 gp limit. stats rolled 18/15/15/15/14/14. I think that is all the details thank you


What books are available?
What are house rules relevant to character creation?
Do those ability scores include the points gained every four levels, or are they base scores?
What is the base race, or is that something you'd like included as part of optimization?
Since I'm not familiar with it, in what book can I find the vampire spawn class progression? Or is it the "racial" progression from Savage Species?
In what book is Chaos Monk?
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls

  1. all

  2. any, just nothing that requires evil oh and no 1 item can be over 200000

  3. base scores no racial and no bonus every 4 levels

  4. human wanted to keep it simple for her though as long as it still simple im good with it

  5. libris mortis

  6. its in dragon mag 388 i believe


If you're focusing upon level drain, then monk isn't really the ideal choice for the character-- they specialize in multiple attacks and vampires and vampire spawn can only drain levels once per turn with their slam.  [Hmm... maybe not, I just noticed that the vampire spawn doesn't have that same wording in its Energy Drain ability.]  If you still want monk, I would at least suggest dropping 5th and 6th levels so you're only losing one point of BAB.  For the most part, with an energy drain character you really don't care how much damage you do, so it's purely about increasing you attack bonus (and if you're allowed, increasing number of attacks). 

If you are allowed to use energy drain multiple times per day, might I suggest a crit focused two-weapon fighter? 

A pair of +1 keen necrotic focus kukri's will run the character 100,000 gold out of her 550,000 (Improved Critical instead of keen will save about 36,000 gold) and change her energy drain to a 15-20 crit instead of a 20 crit.  If you make the build Monk 4/Warblade 2/Thief Acrobat 4 (if you want to stick with monk), then you can also pick up Blood in the Water and each time she crits she'll gain +1 attack and damage.

As an alternative to monk, I would consider Ranger 2/Warblade 1/Barbarian 1/Shadow Scout 2 as the entry point to Thief Acrobat (since you seemed more interested in the acrobat portion.)  That picks up the pre-requisites you need pretty easily, loses no base attack bonus, and grabs two-weapon fighting and some appropriate maneuvers/stances pretty easily.  Barbarian can be used either for more speed so you can get places more easily or for Pounce, since that will mesh nicely with Thief-Acrobat's Acrobatic Charge ability.

The build is much more complex, but the abilities shouldn't really be that much harder to use than what she would pick up with monk.
its cool I think i might drop the energy drain thing and just go half vamp (no more spider climb well thats just something ill have to deal with) which should free up two more levels to allow me more acrobatics, does anyone suggest anything? (be mindful that the dm might still alow me that ability that gives me +10ft, +30 jump and feather fall, also considering making her silver brow human with dragon wings aka bat wings to allow even more jump, i know she dont need slow fall or feather fall at that point but what else can i do) at 6th level of monk i can make all my jump checks as running jumps. that should free up about 7+ feats so whats everyone suggest?


What exactly are you expecting her to do with her Jump checks?  Maneuverability is useful, but you need to be able to maneuver into position to do something.

If you want all Jump checks as running jumps, the Leaping Dragon Stance out of Tome of Battle will grant you that as well and give you +10 foot to your jump distance.  (That might be what you were talking about, but it doesn't give a +30 to Jump checks or feather fall.)  That only requires a single feat investment, rather than 6 levels.
well for starters the monk gets replacement features from dungeonscape (which i believe i extablished in an earlier post) allowing for all jumps to be treated as running jumps, second the +30 is a house rule for this campaign for vampires and vampire descendents (since he dont really want certain abilities which i tried to extablish as an option since post #1) third it actual costs 2 feats, one to get a manuvuer and the other to get a stance or 1 level from warblade (might have to be a higher level in order to have the right innitiator level). it is a good idea so i might go with that and the scout ability that will allow climbing (that or just get something for spider climb so she can climb on ceilings or something) but basically im trying to get a whole lot of manuverability without resorting to flying and or very little magic while still contributing to combat.


In general, I'm just thinking that she may have a better time with a monk replacement-- Swordsage could actually do a lot of what you're looking for without spending any feats as well (particularly at 18th level).  They have access to Tiger Claw for the Leaping Dragon Stance, they have access to Shadow Hand for the spider climb stance, they can pick up the Setting Sun stance that allows movement across difficult terrain without any checks-- if you're looking for non-magical maneuverability that may be a good fit.

It also then gives her something solid to do with her maneuverability when she gets to the opponent as well.  You don't need to worry about full attacks, tripping, grappling, etc... you just hand her a list of maneuver cards and tell her that she can spend these one at a time each encounter. 

And a +30 bonus to Jump checks will mesh very well with Tiger Claw maneuvers.  Having Improved Initiative as a bonus feat would also help to get into Master of Nine if you wanted to go that far-- maybe something like the build below.  (I threw in Dragon Tail, since you were doing the Silverbrow Human and an extra attack can be nice, but if you completely focus on maneuvers it's a bit of a waste-- replace it with Extra Readied Maneuver or something else in that case.)  If you're expecting to progress and this isn't a one off game, I would probably also move Master of Nine back one level so you're starting its progression on 7th level maneuvers.

It is a shame that she won't have 9th level maneuvers though-- she'll be one off of that unless the DM allows level adjustment buyoff.  (Not something I personally allow.)  Eighth level maneuvers are very nice on their own though.

Half-Vampire Swordsage

Level   | Class          | Feats/Abilities                                   | BAB | HP
Level -:  Half-Vampire     [Improved Initiative]
Level 1:  Swordsage        Dragon Wings, Dragon Tail, [Improved Unarmed Strike]
Level 2:  Swordsage        
Level 3:  Swordsage        Adaptive Style
Level 4:  Swordsage        
Level 5:  Swordsage        
Level 6:  Swordsage        Desert Wind Dodge
Level 7:  Swordsage        
Level 8:  Swordsage        
Level 9:  Swordsage        Blind-Fight
Level 10: Swordsage        
Level 11: Swordsage        
Level 12: Master of Nine   Superior Unarmed Strike
Level 13: Master of Nine   
Level 14: Master of Nine   
Level 15: Master of Nine   Snap Kick
Level 16: Master of Nine  

you make a compelling argument sir, however i find this slightly lacking, not that its not good enough for some serious consideration. can she use those 3 stances at the same time or even 2? can she take 10 in any of those? when she uses certain skils such as tumble can she move full speed or nearly? now if she doesnt have those (like when she was a thief acrobat and possibly a few more) does this make up for those or does having those really not make a diffrence?


The stance based items she can't use simultaneously generally (though Master of Nine would allow her to do so for a limited amount of time per day).  She can't take 10 in the skills, but some of the bonuses would work out better for her than taking 10-- +10 foot to a Jump is equivalent to a +40 on a high jump or +10 on a long jump, Spider Climb negates the need for Climb checks on anything other than being attacked while doing it.  Generally at these levels, you aren't likely to even need to take 10 anyway-- your bonuses should be fairly enormous and skills don't suffer from automatic failure on a one.

Tumbling faster could be handled using feats (though you might be better off just boosting her speed directly with something like Fleet of Foot and the Quick trait instead), but frankly there are enough maneuvers that grant enhanced movement that you probably wouldn't need it-- Sudden Leap allows swift action jumps, others negate penalties or allow you to move faster or without provoking attacks of opportunity, etc...  and the additional attack options that you pick up with the Swordsage levels will definitely outweigh any of the other abilities you're missing in my opinion.

Using Fleet of Foot (feat), Quick (trait), and Boots of Striding and Springing (magic item) you can boost your speed to 60 foot-- at that point, half speed is the same as you would have had previously.
what about recovering manuvers? can it be done reasonably? also considering its not a monk (so harder to bypass dr) does she really need the unarmed fighting? actually a few of those honestly? i like the wings part but what about the other feats? is there purpose there? what if i dont want master of 9 does that kinda hold it all together or could that easily be replaced? what would be her most important stat?


Recovering maneuvers would be a full round action to recover all of her maneuvers due to Adaptive Style (and she could actually change them at the same time if she wanted).  The unarmed fighting I put in there because Improved Unarmed Fighting is a prerequisite for Master of Nine and Superior Unarmed Strike helps improve it-- I was using the unarmed style adaptation though, so the second feat isn't really necessary.  (And you're getting the first for free.)

If you wanted to drop unarmed combat and Master of Nine, it should open up just about every feat the character takes.  Most of those are pre-requisites to get into Master of Nine.  Martial adepts have a number of methods of bypassing damage reduction though and tend to have one large powerful strike, so DR doesn't affect them as much. 

Master of Nine is mainly because it has amazing class abilities and boosts your readied maneuvers (and maneuvers known) tremendously.  Straight Swordsage will do just fine though if you want to keep it simple or want more feat choices.  In the original build you can replace the two Dragon feats, Superior Unarmed Strike, or Snap Kick without significantly impacting the build.
I went with your idea except master of the 9 thing and going with the monk thing because it loses armor prof (and thats what you need if you wanna wear light armor too) so i just went with superior unarmed strikes and thief acrobat, got the +30 jump n all now can jump with something like +80 or something rediculous like that, +40-+50 with like many of the movement based skills and not to shabby on stealth. went with mostly shadow hand stuff. found out like nearly all prestige classes count at full IL when reading the prc section so when i get back into sword sage i get like 8th level manuvers still though i got a big gap between 5 to 8 i believe


The only thing light armor proficiency does is prevent armor from applying its armor check penalty to your attacks-- if you wear armor that doesn't provide an armor check penalty (like a mithril shirt) then you don't need to worry about that.

For the prestige classes bit, that isn't every prestige class that advances martial maneuvers by the rules as written.  Only prestige classes that grant martial maneuvers advance initiator level by default.  That said, thief-acrobat certainly isn't an overpowered class by any means, so allowing that isn't going to break anything.  It has a lot of class abilities, but they're fairly focused.

I could even see granting it a "maneuver known" every other level similar to Bloodclaw Master and allowing it to pick a skill trick (Complete Scoundrel) that it qualifies for as the "maneuver".  That would be fairly fitting for the class and allow her to do even more acrobatics and movement related stunts in any given encounter.  Or better yet, just allow it to ready up to 3 skill tricks as if they were maneuvers by 5th level-- that way you aren't giving away free skill tricks and she still needs to pay for them normally, but you open up the option of using more than just the 3 selected during thief-acrobat levels.

Something like:

Second Story Artist (Ex):  A thief-acrobat who has martial adept levels (see Tome of Battle) may ready a manipulation or movement related skill trick (see Complete Scoundrel) in place of one of her maneuvers.  At 3rd and 5th level, the number of maneuvers that she can replace increases by one to a total of three maneuvers at 5th level.  Skill tricks must be purchased with skill points as normal and this class does not grant martial maneuvers, though it acts as a martial adept prestige class for the purposes of advancing initiator level.

that would all be awesome, gotta run it by the dm though


Wrote up a quick description for you and added it to the last post-- if he wants you to give something up, defensive roll and maybe the agile fighting bonuses might be good abilities to drop.  Advancing the initiator level is really the biggest benefit of the ability, the skill trick piece of it will just mean she's preparing fewer high level maneuvers.   Another alternative would be allowing this as a feat for her to take.
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