Blue Artifact Disconnect

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So blue is supposed to be the most artifact loving color... but it doesn't feel like it to me most of the time. Yes, blue likes finding artifacts and getting them into play, but it frequently misses out on interacting with them once they're in play.

On the other hand, white gets a TON of loving out of equipment and is pretty snappy about interacting with it. Are generic artifacts too unfocused to allow better synergy with blue? Or am I the only one that feels this way? Or did the designers miss something?
You got the answer already: there's not a lot that you can rely on being able to do with any random artifact once it's on the battlefield. And there aren't enough artifacts in any given environment that can use what little you can do to them (untapping, making abilities cheaper, ...?) to make the effect worth printing. You need a fair density of artifacts before such effects become worthwhile.

Equipment, on the other hand, is much easier to build cards for, because you can rely on equipment attaching to creatures; that means you can affect the creature rather than the artifact, and creatures are the easiest permanent type by far to do things with. Good luck finding a way to make an equivalent of Sunspear Shikari in blue.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Clockwinged Raqdrium
Creature - Vedalken Wizard
As long as control a non-creature artfiact, Clockwinged Raqdium gets +1/+0 and has flying
1/2
The most gifted scavengers can utilize treasures in their completeness, preserving the old form while giving them new life.

Do I get a prize?
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
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57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
No, because it doesn't make sense.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

No, because it doesn't make sense.


Did you read the flavortext?
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
Yes.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I actually disagree with most of the design philosophy that correlates Artifacts and Blue mana. Artifacts are items used by you (the planeswalker) to aid you. Thus, artifacts should reasonably have affinity with whatever color(s) of mana you (as a mage) have the strongest affinity for. Honestly, I've always found it funny that as the game developed, Artifacts are becoming less about stuff you have in your aetherial pocket and more about devices you channel to make your creatures more proficient, and that design kind of sucks. Does a :U: Mage just have more stuff in his pocket? I'd hope not, because I'd figure that a :R: Mage would have a severed head, a bloodstained object of war, or a crossbow, or a gun, a flint and tinder, or lighter, or a smoke bomb etcetcetcetc. Or perhaps a :W: mage would carry a religious symbol (such as a rosary, or in my favorite flavor, a Valknut), or an enchanted sash.

Honestly, I felt like like this was paramount in what highlighted the best of Scars block, as well as the worst.   
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Well, most of the philosophy behind artifacts is that they're magical gizmos which perform magical feats. They're not just "stuff", they're designed and constructed with a specific purpose and use. They are an answer to a puzzle which somebody literally constructed; and that is a very blue way of approaching problem-solving.

Additionally, while I find it totally credible that the pockets of a red Mage would be overflowing with all sorts of random detritus, only a blue Mage would carry around a device that eats unused bits of time.

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

Whats wrong with Grand Architect, OP?

Or Tezzeret the Seeker/Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas?

~ Tim



I think it's the fact that those all came from blocks with dedicated Artifact themes.  And in those blocks, the artifact-love is spread out among multiple colors rather than being Blue's unique thing.  Even Esper shared its artifacts-matter theme in two other colors.

I think what the OP is going for is the fact that Blue is in theory the color that's most positive towards artifacts.  But while Blue's enemies Green and Red are clearly portrayed as the colors of artifact hate in Common cards in pretty much every Magic set ever printed, there's very little mechanical identity in Blue that points towards playing well with artifacts.  The last few core sets have seen Fabricate and Master Thief, but that's about it.
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
Removal shows up at lower rarities than love--and is more likely to show up in general--in most sets because in Limited it's vastly more likely that at least one of your opponents is playing an artifact that you might want to remove than it is that you have a deck that could make effective use of an artifact tutor, let alone a helper.

R&D isn't going to consistently waste multiple low-rarity slots on blue artifact-love cards that can never be effectively used in the Limited environment in which they appear. (Clock of Omens is useless enough on its own without having confederates.)

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Red gets some artifact love. You don't see it often, but it's there. (Mostly it's equipment, but there was a lot of red metalcraft. Seriously, Galvanic Blast alone should justify what I mean.)

White, like red, is in a love/hate situation.

Green is supposed to get the artifact hate and only artifact hate. In the original Mirrodin block, it was the Grafdigger's Cage of the set. (Which, for other reasons, it was in Scars of Mirrodin as well.) If you see green artifact love, something's really warped.

Blue is only supposed to get artifact love.

Poor black's the most awkward of the bunch.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Blue is only supposed to get artifact love.


You obviously don't play blue much. Oh and. Hate doesn't have to be direct to work :P
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You obviously don't play blue much. Oh and. Hate doesn't have to be direct to work :P



I guess I was thinking of removal. Which blue doesn't get for any permanent.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Hah. That rather depends what you count as "removal". Personally I'd count Arrest as removal just as much as Oblivion Ring or Unmake, and so I also count Paralyzing Grasp and the cards Wynzerman linked as "removal" too. When building a Limited deck I'd put Prey Upon in the "removal" pile the same way I would Last Breath, and Utopia Vow the same way I would Pacifism.
I guess I was thinking of removal. Which blue doesn't get for any permanent.


Yeah, Blue gets no removal except those bounce things and those counterspell things no other color gets. ;)
You obviously don't play blue much. Oh and. Hate doesn't have to be direct to work :P



I guess I was thinking of removal. Which blue doesn't get for any permanent.



That makes no sense.

Counterspell Dissipate Daze - saying these aren't removal is like saying that Thoughtseize isn't a form of removal.

Echoing Truth Disperse Capsize - How many times did a lone blocker get Vapor Snagged? Removal is removal, however long.

Pongify Polymorph - if one calls Chaos Warp enchantment removal, even when you flip an enchantment, then polymorph is also a form of removal, even if it's not printed much. And before you mention Pongify's expansion symbol, Rosewater has said that Pongify is within blue's color pie.

Ice Cage. You can't possibly not count this. Lignify was sweet.

If you absolutely have to, you could bounce a creature, and then counter it the next time it is cast. That's excellent removal - seeing as how you just time walked your opponent.

Blue, like white, has the ability to deal with any permanent. It's one of the colors that can deal with anything.
I guess I was thinking of removal. Which blue doesn't get for any permanent.


Yeah, Blue gets no removal except those bounce things and those counterspell things no other color gets. ;)



Bounce isn't removal. Removal goes to graveyard, exile, or anywhere in the library other than the top. Bounce is a tempo play.

Counterspells aren't removal either. They're time-critical, which removal generally isn't.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I guess I was thinking of removal. Which blue doesn't get for any permanent.


Yeah, Blue gets no removal except those bounce things and those counterspell things no other color gets. ;)



Bounce isn't removal. Removal goes to graveyard, exile, or anywhere in the library other than the top. Bounce is a tempo play.

Counterspells aren't removal either. They're time-critical, which removal generally isn't.

At this people we're just arguing definitions, saying "Yes it is! No it isn't!"

The more sensible argument to have would be about why we want to consider bounce or counters "removal". 
Are we worried about colours' relative strengths in Limited? But development can tune those in a variety of ways.

Are we wanting to ensure each colour is interactive? Or that the colour has "answers" for bomby cards? That's more sensible. Hopefully we'll all agree that counterspells are "answers" (they're pretty much one of the classic examples of "answers"), although they're time-dependent. And bounce is also an "answer", although clearly a temporary one.  If you define "removal" as permanent, non-time-dependent answers, then... well, blue does get those as well, in the Paralyzing Grasp mould such as Encrust. But it doesn't get "destroy" effects, indeed.

Your assertion back in post #12 was that blue should get "artifact love" and shouldn't get "artifact hate". Rather than arguing whether blue's answers to artifacts such as Steel Sabotage count as "removal" or not, perhaps we ought to talk about why you think blue should get "artifact love", or get more artifact love than artifact hate.

Personally I agree with zammm, when he said:
Removal shows up at lower rarities than love--and is more likely to show up in general--in most sets because in Limited it's vastly more likely that at least one of your opponents is playing an artifact that you might want to remove than it is that you have a deck that could make effective use of an artifact tutor, let alone a helper.

I'm not too concerned with :U:'s realtion to artifacts. A few more (and more inventivce) cards wouldn't be bad, but overall I'm satisfied. If a lot of blue's interactions with artifacts have to do with tutoring or cheating them into play that's because those are just blue's ways of interacting. Really once it's on the field it doesn't matter if it's an artifact, blue just has limited ways of interacting.

White's the second place artifact color although I agree sometimes it gets too many artifact matters cards and starts looking like number one.

I'd really like to see more definition in red's relation with artifacts though. The way I see it red's two main interactions with artifacts should be hating on them and using them as "fuel" for effects.

Green hates artifacts, 'nuff said.

Black? I don't even have a clue. Sometimes they don't interact at all but they got fairly cozy during the original Mirrodin block (even cozier than you'd expect in an artifact set) and then they were kind of tied to together again in Alara. I could maybe see some sort of accumulation of artifacts = greedy theme but really I think they should stay away from eachother whenever the block design permits it.