Queries about Clones

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Alright, so I had a question reguarding something that has been stumping me that I couldn't easily find in the rules.

A friend of mine had come up with an idea - suppose one targets Doubling Season on the field with Argent Mutation, making Doubling Season an artifact.  Now, let's say that we also have March of the Machines on the field.  Since Doubling Season is now a non-Creature Artifact Enchantment, it now becomes a 5/5 Enchantment Artifact Creature (Doubling season has a 5 CMC).

Simple enough, yes?

Question 1:  Since it is a Creature at the time, would it still be targetable by, say, Rite of Replication?

My answer would be Yes.  Rite of Replication could target the Doubling Season since it was a creature as per the text.

Question 2:  If the effect does go through, would the Doubling Season Tokens also be creatures until the end of turn?

My answer for this is No.  Rite of Replication has the following ruling placed onto it on 10/1/2009 as follows:
As the token or tokens are created, they check the printed values of the creature they're copying -- or, if that creature is itself a token, the original characteristics of that token as stated by the effect that put it onto the battlefield -- as well as any copy effects that have been applied to it. It won't copy counters on the creature, nor will it copy other effects that have changed the creature's power, toughness, types, color, or so on.
So there would be 1 Doubling Season on the table that is a 5/5 Enchantment Artifact Creature, and 2 Doubling Seasons that would not be (Doubling Season is on the table, so a copy would be put into play).

Question 3:  If he kicked Rite of Replication and would be putting out multiple Doubling Season tokens, would they duplicate each other?

My answer for this would be...Yes, actually.  The reason is because of another rule placed on Rite of Replication on the same date as the one above:
The tokens see each other enter the battlefield. If they have a triggered ability that triggers when a creature enters the battlefield, they'll all trigger for one another.
Thus, we've got 5 Doubling Seasons coming in that are duplicating each other, so we instead get 160 Doubling Seasons hitting the table...or would that be an infinite loop for adding additonal multipliers?

Question 4:  ^ See the last sentence above.  ^
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1) Yes, for the reason you stated. The fact that it's also an enchantment and an artifact doesn't matter.

2) No, because copies only acquire the copiable values of an object. Effects and counters are not copiable values.

3) Only the original doubling season would double the tokens you get. The other doubling seasons are entering play at the same time, their replacement effects don't work until they're actually on the battlefield. (Gatherer is down, Rite of Replication is kicker instead of replicate, right?)

In that scenario you would end up with eleven doubling seasons (5 from rite, doubled to 10, plus the one you already had).

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

Correct on 1 and 2, wrong on 3. Doubling Season has a replacement effect, not a triggered ability.

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3) Replacement effects are applied before the action happens, so the only the original [C]Doubling Season[/C] exists to double the effect of [C]Rite of Replication[/C].

Long answer:

Rite of Replication says:
Put a token that's a copy of target creature onto the battlefield.

But two replacement effects try to replace that:


  • If Rite of Replication was kicked, put five of those tokens onto the battlefield instead.

  • If an effect would put one or more tokens onto the battlefield under your control, it puts twice that many of those tokens onto the battlefield instead.


As the controller of the affected spell, you get to apply them in the order you desire. Obviously, you want to apply them in the order I listed them. [Upd: Kicker is a self-replacement effect, so it must be applied first.] First, you apply the replacement effect from kicker:
Put five tokens that's a copy of target creature onto the battlefield.

Then the one from Doubling Season:
Put ten tokens that's a copy of target creature onto the battlefield.

There are no more replacement effects left to apply, so you them perform that action. So you now have a total of eleven Double Seasons. (Wow! From then on, you'd mutliply the number of tokens/counters by 2048!)

But two replacement effects try to replace that:


  • If Rite of Replication was kicked, put five of those tokens onto the battlefield instead.

  • If an effect would put one or more tokens onto the battlefield under your control, it puts twice that many of those tokens onto the battlefield instead.


As the controller of the affected spell, you get to apply them in the order you desire.


So you could choose to put only five tokens onto the battlefield if you controlled a Doubling Season?
Rules Advisor
yes. If you applied them in the opposite order, "put one" becomes "put two" becomes "put five". (Adding this to earlier answer.)
you always have to apply the kicked replacement first because its a self-replacement
616.1a If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects are self-replacement effects (see rule 614.15), one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1b.

so no, you will always get 10

as to the OP's scenario add Xenograft with Golem selected and Precursor Golem for extra fun

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doh! One [616.1a] of the three exceptions [616.1a-616.1c] Thought I had discovered something cool. Adjusted my answer (by stricking out bad parts).
Aaah!  I got it.  Thanks a lot for clearing that up for me.  ^ ^
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If you (or your friend) is interested in going nuts with Doubling Season, this guy went about as nuts as it is possible to go.

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

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