Should Magic Armor/Weapons make you scale faster?

I just wanted to here what other peoples thoughts where on how AC and Attack bonuses should scale, with respect to Magic Armor and Weapons.

Lets say Monsters' average attack bonus increase by +1 every five levels. Should Magic Armor scale at the same rate, thus allowing you to keep up with monster attack bonus, or should it put you ahead of monster attack bonus?

If it should put you ahead, should it scale faster like +1 every four levels? Or should it scale at the same rate, and just always be ahead by the same amount, like +1 every five levels with level 1 magic armor starting at a +1 bonus, so that when monsters go up to +1 at level 5, level 5 armor is no +2.

Same thing for magic weapons. How should they scale vs how monster AC scales? 
Apparently magic items will be completely optional, thank god.

So a +1 sword is huge, as it should be. 
Apparently magic items will be completely optional, thank god.

So a +1 sword is huge, as it should be. 



I hope that this is true. If you need Magic items to keep up with monsters, then they don't feel special, and a campaign without them would gimp the players.

I hope that Player BABs scale with monster AC, that way when you get a +1 Sword, it feels like an amazing find. Also it makes you feel amazing when you go from 17 Strength to 18. 

Probably the hope of bounded accuracy being the watchword of advancement is that someone in a high powered, magic item heavy campaign can use a similar monster set to someone in a lower magic sort of arena.


The options would be nice. I'll be using +X magic items in my games 'cause I like them, but I'll be glad to not have to contrive ways for everyone to get magic all the time.

Players should keep up with monsters by their class levels alone.
Magic items should not be part of the scaling.

EDIT: missed a 'not' in the last sentance...

Magic items should be part of the scaling.




I disagree, I want magic items completely detached from advancement/scaling (like in pre-3rd Ed).
I was actually hoping magical weapons would have no "plusses" at all, but just be special.

Like "This is the Sword of Despair, you roll a d12 for damage (instead of a d8) and once per day can use a Fear spell" or something like that.

My RPG Campaigns

 

I joke that D&D Next is what happens when, A Christmas Carol-like, 3rd & 4th edition's ghosts travel back in time to an evening near the end of AD&D 2E's life, and say "this is what is coming" and so AD&D 2E heads off in a different direction. So, it's like alt-reality AD&D 3rd, maybe?Cam Banks

 

I think class features and stats should scale with monster stats.

Magic Items should be independent from that.

Like I hand out more powerful items to underpowered and "pure roleplay" PCs.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Magic items should be part of the scaling.



Oooops... I accidentally dropped an important NOT here....

I DONT wan't magic items to be part of scaling =P
I was actually hoping magical weapons would have no "plusses" at all, but just be special.

Like "This is the Sword of Despair, you roll a d12 for damage (instead of a d8) and once per day can use a Fear spell" or something like that.



I like that also. 

Granted - with the math the way it is currently, a +1 weapon doesn't 'break' anything and only takes the players from hitting on a 8 to hitting on a 7 (an 8% increasing in hit probability - unlike +1 plate which takes the enemy from hitting on a 17 to hitting on an 18 - a 33% reduction in hit probability for most of them).

However - I'd rather magic items were cool rather than just numerically better.

The drawback is that it is hard to come up with such 'coolness' that is useful in broad circumstances.  Giving a weapon an accuracy bonus makes it generally useful - even if the special property isn't always useful.   This actually opens the door for more potential properties since a more special use property isn't the only thing the weapon does.

I've been playing with the weapons which in AD&D might bave been +1, +3 versus {creature type}.  One possibility I've been looking at is having them grant advantage when attacking creatures of that type.  I'm a bit worried that is too good, however,  My second thought (which goes back to the math a did a few weeks ago) is partial advantage against these creatures.

When I was playing with a partial advantage system, Iooked at the math of rolling a d12 and a d20 and using the highest.  The net result was a bonus between +1 and +3   - which is in the right ballpark.  This didn't work for what I wanted from a partial advantage system mostly because there was no convenient die size to grant partial disadvantage (it would take a d40 or so).  But it means that this approach could be used to create magic weapons which improved a character's chance of hitting without actually competing with bounded accuracy.

For such weapons I am currently considering doubling the weapon damage (but not any other damage) from the attack.  So - rather than a d8 becoming a d12 as in the above example, it would become 2d8.

Carl
Flametongue rocks, you could easily just drop that in 5th Ed.
I just wanted to here what other peoples thoughts where on how AC and Attack bonuses should scale, with respect to Magic Armor and Weapons.

Lets say Monsters' average attack bonus increase by +1 every five levels. Should Magic Armor scale at the same rate, thus allowing you to keep up with monster attack bonus, or should it put you ahead of monster attack bonus?

If it should put you ahead, should it scale faster like +1 every four levels? Or should it scale at the same rate, and just always be ahead by the same amount, like +1 every five levels with level 1 magic armor starting at a +1 bonus, so that when monsters go up to +1 at level 5, level 5 armor is no +2.

Same thing for magic weapons. How should they scale vs how monster AC scales? 




If I wanted to deal with magic items as a means of keeping up with the jonses then I could play the last three iterations of D&D or break out my pathfinder stuff. 

Items by level is the absolute worst thing to happen to D&D since Gary lost control of his company. 
 
I've never really liked the +X magic weapons that didn't do anything else magical. The only magic on them was the +X, and that's it. Kind of takes the wind out of analyzing it.

DM: You found a sword.
Player: I'll use [insert whatever edition's version of determining what kind of magic is present].
DM: Oh, it's magical. 
Player: Does it do fire damage? Or cold damage?
DM: No.
Player: Is it lighter than a typical sword?
DM: Nope.
Player: Is it sharper?
DM: No.
Player: Then what does it do?
DM: +3 to-hit and damage.
Player: But it isn't lighter so it swings easier or sharper so it cuts deeper?
DM: Nope. Just easier to hit things and damages them more when you do hit them.
Player: How?
DM: Do you want the damn sword or not?
Player: Heck yeah! It's a +3!                 
My plan is to eliminate static bonuses. Extra damage (+1d4 fire), stepped up die rolls, or a special ability I'm all for. So I'm hoping it's easy to just eliminate static bonuses completely.