Vs Nicol Bolas

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If my opponent were to declare to use Nico Bolas's -7 ability and I play Divine Deflection and pay X amount to throw all 7 damage back at it, what happens?
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Divine Deflection

"That player" refers to the player targeted by the ability, not the player who actually takes the damage. Even so, Divine Deflection does not redirect damage. It prevents, then deals damage by itself.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

The damage is prevented and the targeted creature or player is dealt 7 damage. But the other effects still affect you. So you'll still discard 7 cards and sacrifice 7 permanents. "That player" is the player targeted by the effect, not the player that was dealt the damage.

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Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

So basically since Devine Deflection says target I cant swing it back at Bolas?
You can't target Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker with Divine Deflection since it's not a creature or player. You may target your opponent, then choose to redirect that damage to Nicol Bolas. However, if Nicol Bolas had exactly 9 loyalty counters on him before your opponent activated his ultimate ability, he will be put into the graveyard for having zero loyalty counters before you get priority to cast Divine Deflection.
Rules Advisor
Ok thanks, thats a good explination. If I tapped Alchemist's Refuge with the mana cost to "flash" out a Witchbane Orb would Nicol Bolas still have priority of order or would he pay for the ultimate attack and get cancled out by Witchbane Orb? I take it the only spells/abilities that can effect a planeswalker are ones that say nonland permanent(s) or planeswalker in the text?.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

If I tapped Alchemist's Refuge with the mana cost to "flash" out a Witchbane Orb, would he pay for the ultimate attack and would it get cancled out by Witchbane Orb?

yes

he activates the activated loyalty ability on Bolas, putting the ability on the stack targeting you and paying the 9 loyalty counters

then you activate Refuge, you both pass and it resolves,
now you cast Orb (he could counter it if he had a Cancel),  
Orb resolves and its ability triggers, you both pass and all curses attached to you are destroyed
finally, you both pass and Bolas' ability starts to resolve, but is countered because its only target is illegal

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Another Question. When Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or any other planeswalker/spell targets a creature, flashing in a Restoration Angel removes the target bringing in an "entirely new creature" to the battlfield with the result of the original creature being unharmed?
Yes, that works. When restoration blinks something, the creature becomes an entirely different object than the one that was the target of the spell or ability.
All Generalizations are Bad
Another Question. When Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or any other planeswalker/spell targets a creature, flashing in a Restoration Angel removes the target bringing in an "entirely new creature" to the battlfield with the result of the original creature being unharmed?


Yes, for the exact reasons you mentioned.  When the creature returns it is an entirely new creature and not the creature that was being targeted (which no longer exists).
And if Nicol Baolas, Planeswalker is sent to the graveyard after gaining control of a creature, dose the creature remain under the player's control or dose it get returned to the owner becuase it was controlled by Nico Bolas. Planeswalker?
You would keep it.

Nicol Bolas does not specify a duration of as long as he is on the battlefield.  (He has no duration at all)

Edit:
Compare the wording on these two cards:
Beguiler of Wills
Olivia Voldaren

When Olivia leaves you lose control (because that's what the card says)
With Beguiler and Nicol Bolas no such duration is specified.
MTG Rules Advisor
The creature remain under that player's control.

Continous effects (e.g. "gain control") from sources other than static abilities (e.g. Nicol Bolas's second activated ability) last until the end of game unless explicitly limited (by something like "as long as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is on the battlefield" or "until end of turn").

611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by the spell or ability creating it (such as "until end of turn"). If no duration is stated, it lasts until the end of the game.

You can't target Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker with Divine Deflection since it's not a creature or player. You may target your opponent, then choose to redirect that damage to Nicol Bolas.



I was under the impression that you could target a planeswalker with anything that could target a player. At least according to the planeswalker rules posted in the thread.

I am Blue/White
I think you need to reread them. From the link Shard Fenix posted:


If a source you control would deal noncombat damage to an opponent, you may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker that opponent controls instead. This is a redirection effect: you choose whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied, and it's subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects. The player affected by the damage chooses the order in which to apply such effects, but the controller of the source of the damage chooses whether the damage is redirected. Note that this redirection can't be applied to combat damage.




  • For example, although you can't target a planeswalker with Shock, you can target your opponent with Shock, and then as Shock resolves, choose to have Shock deal its 2 damage to one of your opponent's planeswalkers. If you do, two loyalty counters are removed from that planeswalker.

All Generalizations are Bad
and something like Inferno could damage the planeswalker without targeting it

can planeswalkers be targeted? yes

by Lightning Bolt? no* 
by Vindicate? yes

can Lightning Bolt damage a planeswalker? yes, but it doesn't target it

* (technically, it could if the planeswalker also happened to be a creature)

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Okay, so for direct damage spells, technically the target is still the player, but the caster can still choose to deal the damage to the planeswalker?

So what about cases like Fireball when the caster wants to choose multiple targets? Would the caster be able to target the player twice and choose to deal some of that damage to the planeswalker or would the caster have to pay the extra (1) to target the player again to deal damage to the planeswalker?
I am Blue/White
not just technically, but also actually ;)

with Fireball you can target the player only once, and you can redirect all damage to one planeswalker he controls
you can't split the damage to multiple planeswalkers or between the player and the planeswalker, it's all or nothing
proud member of the 2011 community team

A simple solution is Magmaquake since the spell dose not target

If an opponent delcared to use Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker's ability to take control of a creature and I had a Bloodthrone Vampire or Korozda Guildmage on the field would be able to use an ability to sacrifice the target creature before he took it over?
yes
proud member of the 2011 community team

A simple solution is Magmaquake since the spell dose not target



"Solution" to what specifically?

If you mean damaging a player and a Planeswalker that player controls at the same time, that won't work. Re-read the redirection rule - it has NOTHING to do with targeting. All it says is that if a source you control would deal non-combat damage to an opponent, you may choose to redirect that damage to a planeswalker that player controls. This works with Magmaquake the same way it works with Lightning Bolt - it can deal damage to an opponent or a planeswalker they control, never both. Magmaquake will just deal damage to a whole bunch of other stuff too, while Bolt won't. Failure to RTFC, 15 yard penalty on me. But the initial question remains valid, or did at the time I posted this at least.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Magmaquake deals damage to planeswalkers, not players
proud member of the 2011 community team
I'm more focusing on the planeswalker part of it and keeping possibilities within the standard ruling, I should have been more specific. Thunderous Wrath would be another good one and if Gisela, Blade of Goldnight was out when either of those spells were played the better the outcome would be as well. Personally I like to run red/white so when I play Magmaquake Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Akroma's Memorial protects my creatures from biting the dust. Otherwise its gotta be worth making the sacrifce in a tight situation.
When Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker activates his -9 ability to make a taget player sacrifice 7 permanents, are the pemanents chosen and then sacrificed all at once or sacrificed 1 by 1 in the order the player chooses?
all at once
same with discarding

(but in older formats the player can choose in which order they enter the graveyard despite that, new formats don't care about graveyard order anymore)
proud member of the 2011 community team
Can you use Nicol Bolas's +3 ability to take out planeswalkers?

+3 = Destroy Target non creature permanent.
Can you use Nicol Bolas's +3 ability to take out planeswalkers?

+3 = Destroy Target non creature permanent.

certainly, as long as it isn't also a creature

there are weird combos possible to make planeswalkers also creatures (eg. March of the Machines + Mycosynth Lattice)
(or even just using the third ability of Gideon Jura)

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