Time to talk tiers

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With the new decks out and playable for the past week I'd like to see how people see the deck tiers now, including BOTH the new and the old decks.

What do you think?
With the new decks out and playable for the past week I'd like to see how people see the deck tiers now, including BOTH the new and the old decks.

What do you think?



No. Didn't have old tiers, don't want new ones. Just want to play. 

I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
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But you have to agree there are definitely better decks than others. I will look at this and post when i get home, to start its GG and SS tier 1
SS is tier 1

CM is mid tier
I don't see tiers for this game being that distinct. There are a couple of decks clealy above the others, but below that it's all a jumble. There isnt really a bad tier unless Mindstorms ends up there. Dream Puppets is a weird case, as the best build of it(turbo mill) can't beat a few decks at all but plays even or strong against everything else.
...whatever
I think it's fair to say they did a pretty good job in that most decks have good matchups and bad matchups.

But I also think it's fair to say that some decks have more good matchups than others.
With the new decks out and playable for the past week I'd like to see how people see the deck tiers now, including BOTH the new and the old decks.

What do you think?

do you have any input or did u make a profile to hear others talk about it
Thanks for asking. I've been reading this forum since I started playing Magic 09 but decided to make a profile this morning when I noticed I keep checking the "are the new decks OP" thread waiting for someobe to consider the new ones relative to the old ones. Then I realized what I'm really looking for is the community's thoughts on what the matchups are and which decks are consistently stronger. A tier discussion is closest thing to that.

I'd love to get to the point where I can offer my own input but don't play enough games across enough decks to do that. My favorite way to play is to take a specialized 'weaker' deck, learn it really well, optimize it, and try my best to win with it. Meta game discussions are my favorite because I like to know where the decks I play stand in the grand scheme of things and to consider which ones ill focus on next. 
GM is top tier too as it can handle both GG and SS. It's to early to re tier older decks as they see almost no play. Give it a month n the likes of AW will likely rise n I'm thinking PK n PI may fall slightly. OD n BoF should hold strong. DP has always been a lottery. CL will bottom out with so much more control around.
There are no tiers really. Just good and bad matchups IMHO.
all  i know is that  the green/black is #1
and the blue/red is #15

very un fair cuz i actually like the u/r deck  but is just not conplete is very unrelaible after turn five u know if u loose or have at least hope
You know, maybe the matchups really are what we should be talking about.  I believe it was robvalue's guides from Magic 09 that had matchup grids where you could consider each pairing AND which decks generally fared better or worse.  

I love that these decks have evolved such that simple tiering forces a lot of guesswork!

Now I wonder if a seasoned community member has the time and gumption to make a matchup grid...

And of course I'm still completely interested in an attempt at a tier list, even if it has some fudge factor built into it. 
Very Reliable Tier
- Obedient Dead
- Born of Flame
- Crosswinds
- Goblin Gangland
- Grinning Madness
- Sepulchral Strength

Pretty Reliable Tier
- Pack Instinct
- Peacekeepers
- Aura Servants
- Collective Might

Fun, but Not as Reliable as I'd Like Tier
- Exalted Darkness
- Ancient Wilds

More Reliable in 2-Headed Giant Tier

- Dream Puppets
- Celestial Light
- Mindstorms

I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment, based as much on other people's reports as my own observations.
That's pretty good although i thing GG and SS are above everything
I agree with the consensus that there is a couple at the top, a couple at the bottom, and kind of everything else.

Sepulchral is at the top. It's not unbeatable, but that isn't the point of a tier list. SS is the strongest deck in the game, and is scarily consistent.

Obedient Dead/Goblins/Born come next.

Then we sort of get everything else...
I want to be Cultured.
Very Reliable Tier
- Obedient Dead
- Born of Flame
- Crosswinds
- Goblin Gangland
- Grinning Madness
- Sepulchral Strength

Pretty Reliable Tier
- Pack Instinct
- Peacekeepers
- Aura Servants
- Collective Might

Fun, but Not as Reliable as I'd Like Tier
- Exalted Darkness
- Ancient Wilds

More Reliable in 2-Headed Giant Tier

- Dream Puppets
- Celestial Light
- Mindstorms

I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment, based as much on other people's reports as my own observations.



My control dream puppets build makes Talrand complete trash and Liliana mediocre in addition to demoishing green decks and Jace in the mirror. Does that make it Tier 1?

In addition, I am crushing Liliana with Aura servants right now. I also have great success with exalted n 1v1....its 5-3 in tournament play here which considering the higher quality of your opponent most games is good.....I also cringe at putting SS in the same tier as OD right now even though I disagree with the idea of tiers to begin with.... OD > SS.

I also don't see how Yeva can be so low. And Celestial light? I'd take both of those decks anytime against anyone.







@Killa - When you say your dream puppets demolishes green decks are you including SS? Surely not?

Do you play on 360? I'd love to work with you to test these theories out =]
I want to be Cultured.
First time back on the forums, surprised to see blue/red get such a bad rep.. it's my default deck at the moment and I can't see that changing anytime soon. Took me a while to get a solid stack of 60 and work out the kinks sure, it's less obvious than the other multicolour decks but also more fun. You need to pick and choose yer bombs and not just take them all expecting to win.

Aggro Ancient Wilds is the rage quit king, this thing trolls harder than turbo mill ever did. From turn 4 onwards it effectively filters out half the lands from their multicolor deck. Most of the time I'm swinging with 8/8 manaplasms while they can't cast any sort of threat and just discard every turn.. your turn 4> bombs are useless if you can't play 'em.
@Killa - When you say your dream puppets demolishes green decks are you including SS? Surely not?

Do you play on 360? I'd love to work with you to test these theories out =]



mono green.... the dlc has been less than favorable to my control Jace build.

Milling (even if control) GM (HELLO demigods with haste) and SS (with all those fatties dependent on graveyards and abundant removal spells if I steal one) is just a recipe for disaster.....Turbo mill might get lucky but probably not...a mere hexproof troll with rancorr eats me alive all by itself unless I get a super draw with 5/5 phantasms off the cuff and I can protect them with counters/unsummons from your insane amounts of removal...

I can recover from milling a vengvine--though it certainly makes my job harder.......but a flier has evasion and there are 4 of them compared to two vengvines which only does 4 damage.......
 
im on ipad and ps3 btw....










Turbo mill vs SS and GM isn't as bad as you'd think. Against GM, the Demigods are bad, but they're pretty much the only threat in the deck and you can often outrun them. I went 4-2 vs Demigods yesterday night. SS is cake, it's slow enough that I can outrun it almost every time. Turbo mill wins in 6-8 turns tops, and SS just doesn't win that fast. Graveyard powered fatties get bounced and chumped.

The bad matchup in the new decks is Collective Might.

As for Ancient Wilds, I've always found it a bit overrated. It's murder if it gets going, but it always seemed to me a turn too slow. 
...whatever
First time back on the forums, surprised to see blue/red get such a bad rep.. it's my default deck at the moment and I can't see that changing anytime soon. Took me a while to get a solid stack of 60 and work out the kinks sure, it's less obvious than the other multicolour decks but also more fun. You need to pick and choose yer bombs and not just take them all expecting to win.

Aggro Ancient Wilds is the rage quit king, this thing trolls harder than turbo mill ever did. From turn 4 onwards it effectively filters out half the lands from their multicolor deck. Most of the time I'm swinging with 8/8 manaplasms while they can't cast any sort of threat and just discard every turn.. your turn 4> bombs are useless if you can't play 'em.



I dont think its that Blue/Red is a bad deck compared to the rest. With a reasonable draw its a lot of fun to play and has a decent chance against any other deck in the game. I think its main weakness is its consistancy. With a poor draw you are likely to lose. Some of the other decks seem either less prone to poor draws (Goblin Gangland) or can often make up any lost ground with card advantage effects and quick removal (SS.) Another weakness is only targetted removal and no real fatty control before turn 6. Aura Decks with invisable stalkers are just hellish to play against with this deck...at least in my experience.
Very Reliable Tier
- Obedient Dead
- Born of Flame
- Crosswinds
- Goblin Gangland
- Grinning Madness
- Sepulchral Strength

Pretty Reliable Tier
- Pack Instinct
- Peacekeepers
- Aura Servants
- Collective Might

Fun, but Not as Reliable as I'd Like Tier
- Exalted Darkness
- Ancient Wilds

More Reliable in 2-Headed Giant Tier

- Dream Puppets
- Celestial Light
- Mindstorms

I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment, based as much on other people's reports as my own observations.



i agree with most decks stated here but heres my own:

Most reliable: for 1v1s
obedient dead (with murders and always able to play a hand nomatter the draw is always good) if got set up right.
ancient wilds (erratic portal and 4 cast natural order for gaea's revenge rush is a huge game changer)
crosswinds (with so many counters and ways to get more turns in with more mana is great, plus with so many people using strength definite edge)
sepulchral strength(good mana creatures and really good flow big aversary to my obedient dead deck and dream puppets)
collective might (really good when most spells cost 3 or less and even if get land locked still can play and win) land locking happens alot with new dlc

More reliable with decent results: for 1v1s
goblin decks (very cheap spells and good speed, but loses if game goes on too long and kill decks can take this deck out)
grinning malice (really good rush deck but if game goes on too long may pay for those early life pay you had to do)
mindstorms (good if you get right cards with right mana)
pack instinct (good rump up deck with good overall gameplay)
dreampuppets (as long as you got deck set up good and know how to play it then good chance to win even in 1v1.)
exalted darkness (last reliable only if get right enchantments and artifacts)

 
Decks that should stick to two headed giant: because too slow or have few too many weaknesses from new update and need partner in order to work.
aura servants (good deck but if you lose your creatures or get rushed youll lose bad, need 2v2 so back up plan to enchant partners creatures)
peacekeepers (never really seen this deck do much but good defender for late game win decks with exiles and tokens)
born of the flame (this deck be so good if got more lands but without too many lands to play its just not good enough for 1v1 for me.)
celestial light (now this deck used to be really good but now with updates to serra ascendant i honestly cant say this deck i can use much especially with nex dlc decks out its just too plain for me...and i really liked this deck before but should stick to 2v2 for stalling purposes)

see what you guys think to mine, gave reasons why each should be at.       
  
 
      
       
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