Sepulchral Strength set combos/ strengths and weaknesses

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Introduction: hello all names, hornet and il be explaning to you guys today about the strengths and weaknesses of Sepulchral Strength a black/green deck and at end give you a set combo and places where you can sub in what you want. 

Deck stragedy for use:
 ok il be first explaining the overall stradegy of this deck and ways you can take it to your own personal liking. il first start off by saying this deck is a basic reflection of the ideal of ancient wilds in affect in that deck creatures activate their abilties when they enter battlefield, but for this deck the creatures activate when they die. now you may be thinking whats the good in that? doesn't he leave his defenses open with all his creatures dying? yes and no. the thing about this deck is the abiltiy to stall out your foe with weak 2/1s and keep your foe away from your life long enough to cast big creatures that get powered up from all creatures that died, such as Mortivore and Lord of Extinction as well as Sewer Nemesis. in order to play this deck affectively you can take it into a couple of approaches, first you can put alot of creatures that solely get upgraded for sacrificing own creatures like bloodflow connoisseur, blood artist, drooling groodion and getting more tokens from creatures and enchantments to give more power to these creatures and deal more damage. another way to use this deck is to do alot of discard spells and and use creatures that get boosted up from this like vulturous zombie and use the combination of discard and boosting to overwhelm your foe before he can counter anything. lastly what you can do is to use alot of kill cards and regenerating creatures to overwhelm your foe as a creature control combo. though there are many ways you can divide this deck one thing is true, putting regenerate creatures with sacrificing spells isn't probably the best combos, ether go regenerate or sacrifice but there is a way to put two together to a extent. next il be putting some deck combos and strengths and weaknesses of each.

my own personal deck combo consists of 63 cards total:
 if you want to choose my deck combo its up to you im continually changing it, but il give most recent one i have so you can see how it works for you. my own deck combo uses alot of kill cards, early land giving creatures, some sacrificing instants and alot of regenerating creatures to result in a more creature control style tactic and brute green overpowering.

2 rancors
1 spore frog
1 blood artist
2 diabolic edicts
4 go for the throat
2 viridian emissary
2 consume strength
1 maelstrom pulse
2 pernicious deed
2 troll ascetic
1 yavimaya dryad
4 yavimaya elder
1 consuming vapors
2 creakwood liege
1 damnation
1 defense of the heart
2 masters of the wild hunt
1 mortivore
1 asceticism
1 bellowing tanglewurm
1 drana, kalastria bloodchief
1 lord of extinction
1 mitotic slime
2 spiritmonger
3 vulturous zombie

now if you choose this deck combo be sure to use the kill cards to open up their defenses and unleash your creatures. use cheap instants to turn a bad situation into your favor and use cheap 3 cast creatures to ward off attackers until big creatures come out to play. its a all around good deck doesn't excel on one stragedy and usually can play each hand you get effectively with only one mulligan needed if any.

Sacrifice deck combo: 63 cards
 ok for this deck combo is all about sacrificing your creatures and powering up others and making your foe sacrifice his as well but not with the abilities your creatures have when they die. in order to use this effectively ull need to know how to use certain cards at right time, like you want to put out those creatures that are cheap and ether let them die or do mass destroy spells and combined with elders and blood artist your gona have a blood life at foes life and have lands to show for bigger creatures. 

2 rancors
1 spore frog
2 abyssal gatekeeper
2 blood artist
2 diabolic edict
2 go for the throat
2 viridian emissary
2 bloodflow connoisseur
2 consume strength
1 golgari germination
2 maelstrom pulse
2 pernicious deed
4 yavimaya elder
1 consuming vapors
2 creakwood liege
1 damnation
1 defense of the heart
1 grave pact
2 master of the wild hunt
1 lord of extinction
2 mitotic slime
1 cabal patriarch
2 drooling groodion
1 gleancrawler
1 penumbra wurm

this deck combo should flow fluently and actively as long as your ok about losing your creatures and powering up others. can be risky at times because your leaving some holes in your defense but can really pay off if you get everything set up like you should with use of grave pact especially and hard hitters like drooling groodion.

discard and empowerment: 63 cards
 ok for this final deck combo its all about making your foe discard alot of cards into graveyard to empower your creatures such as sewer nemesis, lord of extinction, and vulturious zombie. if you want to use this deck right you DO NOT use those early discard spells like mind rot. because when you get vulturous zombie out ull need those spells to empower your creatures right away. remember doesn't how your foes graveyard gets big just make sure its ready for your high casting creatures to have a really good empowerment start.

2 rancors
1 spore frog
2 diabolic edict
4 go for the throat
2 ravenous rats
2 viridian emissary
1 consume strength
2 maelstrom pulse
2 mind rot
2 pernicious deed
2 troll ascetic
3 yavimaya elder
1 consuming vapors
2 creakwood liege
1 damnation
1 defense of the heart
2 mortivore
2 sewer nemesis
1 ascetism
1 drana, kalastria bloodchief
2 lord of extinction
1 spiritmonger
3 vulturous zombie

remember for this deck get as much spells possible into both yours and your foes graveyard before mana 4 if possible when sewer nemeisis comes out and mortivore too.

Conclusion how to use and deck set combos: well there you guys have it, one of my own personal deck combos and two other combos that better fits your style of play, now just because what i didn't state here cant be done just chances of anything else coming out of this deck combos are slim, maybe a full on intimate rush style combo but bad thing basing on two cards at best and i don't like them odds so you won't see me use that. hope this helps you guys know how to use this deck now gona try to tell you how to play against it.

weakness of this deck:
 now there are many strengths to this deck which ive given now im gona tell you the weaknesses of this deck. this deck has some good kill cards and mass destroy spells and good early land grabbing creatures but the thing to this deck is that most stragedys to this deck is based around two to three overpowered cards to each deck combo and everything else just plays into it, best way to counter this deck is to stall this deck out by repulsing, countering, and blocking the cards that add into the bigger mana cost creatures such as taking out a blood artist right away or not blocking the viridian emissary and countering the elders so he cant get lands. most of the time when going up against this deck youll see just one maybe two spells at most being played each turn on the foes side so use that to your avenge, destroy creatures like mortivore while he still has most of his lands tapped kill off vulturious zombie before you use too many spells. every little bit counts because in most deck combos this deck rumps up to the big creatures like most green and black decks do but try to stall you while they get the time to cast big creatures such as that in pack instinct and obedient dead (one of my favs btw). one other weakness of this deck like all other dual mana decks is the chance to get land locked is more freguent then one mana decks, more stragedy and options but less chance to grab CORRECT land. like the card grave pact req 3 solid black lands to cast with only one random. bad odds for a 4 cast mana enchantment. finally the biggest weakness is the mana its using remember strengths and weaknesses of each color and apply it to this deck, black equals creature control but cant counter instants or sorcerys (blue mainly) and green has huge creatures but lacks instant and sorcery protection as well (blue/black) so with this it can be said this deck main weakness is countering instant and sorcerys ether stealing your creatures like mindstorms does or dispersing your creatures like crosswinds. so remember these weaknesses because when going up against this deck use alot of instant and socercys and plan accordily for when this deck gets +4 mana because thats when big creatures start to come out so have your defenses prep.

overall conclusion:
 hoped you guys like my more detailed information of sepulchral strength and my deck set combos given i know from personal exp. that my own personal deck combo works, but its up to you what you choose. put positive feedback if you guys want to see more detailed information like this above for each of the new dlc decks for magic 2013.

thanks
mopeyhornet                                                                                                      
A+ for effort, sadly not great execution. Firstly this should be in the golgari thread. Secondly if this is to teach new players i have a few issues.

1. 63 cards in a deck is a big no no. It should be 60 or sometimes 61

2. Spore frog is terrible

3. Is English not your first language? I would get this spell/ grammar checked because it is hard to read in some places.
i put 63 cards for people to give or take one or two cards from each deck combo and spore frog is a unrated card. when your getting overwhelmed or just want to go all out...you leave the spore frog back to prevent damage next turn...very handy in my opinion
You can't say you only use 63 so people can take cards out when in the post you right, my current deck consists of 63 cards total.

also there is no 2 ways about it, spore frog is bad. This deck is not planning on racing so the extra turn is often not relevant enough to warrant a card.
this deck is all about stalling out till least mana 4 when bigger better creatures can come out and if one of those creatures has a ability where they prevent combat damage then it belongs...unless you dont know how this deck works...
and if you can take the time to troll on other peoples forums then you can do your own forums and lets see how your deck is set up...
I am very well aware of how this deck works and have a very good record with it. You can ask a lot if the experienced players on this forum and they will all tell you spore frog does not belong in this deck.

Sean or anyone with power, can we get this merged with the golgari thread
then if your so proud put up your deck combo and prove you know how to use this deck or stop trolling
I did in the correct thread, a few pages back from where the discussion its now. Look i don't mind anyone sharing their ideas but when you start a new thread and write like its a primer, you better make sure the advice is right. I suggest you copy your first post into the golgari thread and see what responses you get.
Everyone said fog was bad.  That card has turned plenty of games around for me.  every card in magic has its uses.  Everyone including me always gets told cards are bad on here.  Fog is good example.  No one ran it in 2012 hardly. I did. It shifts the game in your favor like spore frog can.  Would you really wast a kill card on it if it hit the field?  I doubt it, but that is me.  And before anyone says it, I am not new to magic.  Everyone has his/her own way of playing any given deck or card. 


It alwasy seems to be i am right, you are wrong on the forums.  I have success with a lot of cards that people consider to be "bad cards".  Is it that hard for anyone to actually say that they prefer not to use a card  instead of saying things are bad?   
Even though i dislike fog, it can win games by surprising your opponent. Frog cannot do that. And like i said before this deck its not trying to race, the frog will rarely buy you that turn so you can attack for the win. Most likely it means you die a turn later.

Even if i left the spore frog issue the fact that the builds use 63 cards is just wrong. I understand it was done with the best intentions but there is alreadya lengthy discussion on another thread dedicated to this deck.
Every time someone posts here and not in the "real" SS thread a Spore Frog eats an angel and a kitten.

The boards are busy enough already.  Help us out by using the existing threads in the future please Mopey...
^This made me giggle...

Edit: Opps...did I just make the frog eat an angel and a kitten?
thank you eaglenitewillow at least somebody knows how to play this deck.
thank you eaglenitewillow at least somebody knows how to play this deck.



You're talking like it's your way or not at all. I completely disagree with your method for a few of the decks, yours is not the only way to play so stop being so obnoxious. And for the record, spore frog has uses, but there are much better cards to swap it out for. 

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nope never said it was my way or the highway lol just hate how people only put negative feedback on peoples threads. if you dont agree say that..dont be disrepectful while doing it though. im trying to see if you can make a intimate kind of playing style to this deck but im not sure if thats possible without having to mulligan more then 3 times to get good hand to support it.
if anyone has a deck combo for intimate for green creatures of the deck please post or tell where it is. thanks
Even though i dislike fog, it can win games by surprising your opponent. Frog cannot do that. And like i said before this deck its not trying to race, the frog will rarely buy you that turn so you can attack for the win. Most likely it means you die a turn later. Even if i left the spore frog issue the fact that the builds use 63 cards is just wrong. I understand it was done with the best intentions but there is alreadya lengthy discussion on another thread dedicated to this deck.



sporefrog has save me more than enough so far.  and so what if it eats removal.  that means my opponent wasted a kill card on it.  that is still win win for me.  i get there is no surprise factor behind it, but not everything has to be a surprise. 

When i used to play at my local shop, people always downed me for the cards i used to use.   shoulda seen their faces when they lost to me with said cards.  and no they were not noobs or bad players.  even i have been playing for almost 20 years.  ones man so called junk is another mans treasure.  yes i would be happier if spore frog had something better, say like it cost 1 or 2 mana more and had flash.  that would be great. 

I use it to bait people.  not my fault they fall for it.     
I have run this build with some success, although there are a lot better builds with better cards. One thing I have noticed is that this deck can be built several different ways and still be very effective.

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Starter" libraryfor Sepulchral Strength (Golgari): 41 picks, 61 cardserdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~B72yFn~~Starter~~2AYbc44~~2?0bKoO~~2BEoJ0C~~3AX76cu~~2?HTqGq~~3=9R92S~~2AsJCuI~~2?JDdWS~~2?LeSi2~~2=OP1bK~~4AriHbV~~2BhLFOu~~2?qwIl9~~2=RvKxl~~2BYFTtn~~2=qtApp~~1BirVSK~~1=9OWga~~1?m5O8J~~1Az8nYT~~1A2XD3A~~))))))))
 Creatures 
   cost  ■■ Scute Mob  1/1   
   cost  ■■■ Troll Ascetic  3/2   
■■■ Yavimaya Elder  2/1   
   cost  ■■ Creakwood Liege  2/2  ()()(
 Defense of the Heart   
   cost  ■■ Bellowing Tanglewurm  4/4   
   cost  ■■ Pelakka Wurm  7/7   
 Combat surprises 
   cost  ■■ Consume Strength   
 Removal 
   cost  ■■■■ Go for the Throat   
   cost  ■■ Maelstrom Pulse   
   cost  ■■ Master of the Wild Hunt  3/3   
 Sweeper 
   cost  ■■ Pernicious Deed   
   cost   Damnation   
 Forced sacrifice 
   cost  ■■ Diabolic Edict   
   cost   Consuming Vapors   
 Mana ramp-up 
   cost  ■■ Viridian Emissary  2/1   
   cost   Yavimaya Dryad  2/1   
   cost  ■■ Oracle of Mul Daya  2/2   
 Utility 
   cost  ■■ Evolving Wilds   
   cost  ■■ Rancor   
   cost   Asceticism   
erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>
this is my new favorite deck.  i used OD mostly before this one.  i win about 80% of my games with SS but not counting just getting screwed by no mana mulligans.  i have to say this deck has taken a lot of trial and error for me and i've tried everything and have come up with a deck that is highly synergetic.  my weakness is goblins and ill usually get raped by them but i win sometimes too.

i'll vouch for spore frog.  love the card and has single handily saved my ass and turned games around surprise or no surprise. 

i like a lot of one drops to be in my deck and scute mob has worked well for me too. whether it's just drawing a kill spell for 1 mana, to hitting huge with rancor or sacrificing him to greater good.

one of my favorite combos is yavimaya elder + rancor + greater good.  pay the 2 to sacrifice and you have just drawn 7 cards, two or more of which are guaranteed lands than can be discarded if your pool is looking swell.

i love grave pact in this deck and have made many people quit games using it + bloodflow connoisseur and mitiotic slime.

i did not put a lot of bombs in my deck because i wanted early game synergy mostly and have included only 5 fatties to finish for me later on if needed.

deck:

Mana Cards

3x Evolving Wilds  
2x Viridian Emmisarry
2x Yavimaya Elder 
1x Yavimaya Dryad
2x Oracle Of Mul Daya - love this card.  filters the mana on the top of your deck so you always get a card you can play. 

Removal
2x Diabolic Edict 
4x Go For The Throat
2x Malestorm Pulse
1x Damnation
2x Pernicious Deed
1x Grave Pact  

Creatures
1x Spore Frog
2x Scute Mob
2x Blood Artist - have done huge damage turns with this one.  after i attack with my bombs then sac everything to finish off.
2x Bloodflow Connoisseur - works perfectly with grave pact and if one of your creatures is going to get taken or destroyed sac it for +1+1.
2x Master Of The Wild Hunt - great for tokens for blocking and sacking and general removal.
2x Mitotic Slime - one of the most important parts of this deck.  tons of sacking potential and leaves you with creatures after board wipe.
3x Vulturous Zombie - flier that builds pretty quick.

Bombs
2x Lord of Extinction - 5 mana for a huge creature and can rancor it so it gets through
2x Pelakka Wurm - life gain and 7/7 trample.  good late game card
1x Sewer Nemesis - can grow huge.  easy casting.

Other

2x Greater Good - when I first started playing this deck i didn't realise the potential with this card.  now i think it's amazing.
2x Rancor
1x Asceticism - you can use your blood artist to block!  save your creatures from being bounced/taken/destroyed.  nice card.
                      
May not be 60 cards but it works really well for me.
I have a question for the more old shool magic gamers. I've played DOTP since 09 and i've always thinnd my deck to 60 cards (apart from 09 as that wasn't an option). However, what's the deal with deck thinning when it comes to cards that replace themselves, such as the yavimaya elder [c] and [c] evolving wilds . If a card can be used to gain cards, or lands, does the deck still require a maxiumum of 60 to be properly thinned?

Furthermore, we need manual land count selection in 2014. I've noticed SS is terrible for land flooding, and sac'ing an elder often draws two lands (as it should) and a 3rd land. Rendering the card very ineffective.

What are people's thoughts?   
Ocal, yes you still want to be at 60 cards. Even with cantrips or deck thinning you still just want to hit your best cards more consistently.
Ocal, yes you still want to be at 60 cards. Even with cantrips or deck thinning you still just want to hit your best cards more consistently.



The pro's vs con's for including evolving wilds into SS seem to be in favour of the cons. With the amount of land fetch, adding those 4 extra cards over more creatures and spells seems pointless. Should i consider removing them completely and getting my deck down from (i think it's sat at 63) to 60?
None of the expansion deck should be running 61 cards. In the other decks, people would run 61 to offset having 24-25 land in a deck that didn't need that much land, to help balance the land to non-land ratio. However, in the expansion decks, you can run as few as 20 land (or 21 for MS) by removing the Evolving Wilds.

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I think any deck that is trying to play 5 drops and above needs 24 land minimum.
None of the expansion deck should be running 61 cards. In the other decks, people would run 61 to offset having 24-25 land in a deck that didn't need that much land, to help balance the land to non-land ratio. However, in the expansion decks, you can run as few as 20 land (or 21 for MS) by removing the Evolving Wilds.



Don't most decks need the evolving wilds for land fixing? Where as in the case of SS land fixing is done by the creatures?
The problem is most of the fixing us double green so if you don't hit those you lose. I think the 4 fetchlands are crucial for SS. It has enough card advantage and removal tocatch up from a slow start but struggles with mana screw.
Ocal, yes you still want to be at 60 cards. Even with cantrips or deck thinning you still just want to hit your best cards more consistently.


There is only one reason Magic players run 60 cards religiously and that's to sideboard (61+ cards and you lose your 15 card sideboard). Sideboarding doesn't exist in DotP so the adherance to 60 is a non-issue.

61 cards gives you one more card without the game auto-adding lands. Probably a big deal since 4 of the cards you're adding ARE lands. 
I'll chime in on the Evolving Wilds discussion again.  After playing around with a 0 Wilds build, I'm noticing that roughly 60% of the time it's fine, and the other 40% I have to cross my fingers or struggle for a few turns.  Given that I'd prefer to eliminate as much of the luck factor as possible, I've been toying with varying amounts of the Wilds.  Seems like 2 is the magic number for my build.  Smooths over a lot of problems without land flood happening too terribly often.
I think that this deck is that best resolves the problem of mana on the decks of the DLC taking many cards for mana.
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What's the deal with the yavimaya elder sac'ing? 95% (that's an honest figure from the 40 odd games i've played) i get an extra land, i've only ever had 2 non-land cards from the 'draw a card' mechanic. Is it bugged?
What's the deal with the yavimaya elder sac'ing? 95% (that's an honest figure from the 40 odd games i've played) i get an extra land, i've only ever had 2 non-land cards from the 'draw a card' mechanic. Is it bugged?


Obviously not if you're getting non-land from it.

"Occasionally draws a random card I like" isn't really a bug.

Yavimaya Elders however are the reason I run both copies of Oracle of Mul Daya. Between those and Greater Good, not only canyou speed through your deck, but you can also cast almost everything you draw.
What's the deal with the yavimaya elder sac'ing? 95% (that's an honest figure from the 40 odd games i've played) i get an extra land, i've only ever had 2 non-land cards from the 'draw a card' mechanic. Is it bugged?


Obviously not if you're getting non-land from it.

"Occasionally draws a random card I like" isn't really a bug.

Yavimaya Elders however are the reason I run both copies of Oracle of Mul Daya. Between those and Greater Good, not only canyou speed through your deck, but you can also cast almost everything you draw.



Yeah i'm a big fan of the oracle. As for the bug, i've only had a non land card twice, in the 40-50 games i played (each time sac'ing 1 elder per game) those stats seem really, really high for a random card draw. I play Talrand usually (and blue in all previous DOTP iterations) and the card draw does screw you on land sometimes (4 land from a tidings makes me cry) but it's never 95% of the time, a land.
this is my new favorite deck.  i used OD mostly before this one.  i win about 80% of my games with SS but not counting just getting screwed by no mana mulligans.  i have to say this deck has taken a lot of trial and error for me and i've tried everything and have come up with a deck that is highly synergetic.  my weakness is goblins and ill usually get raped by them but i win sometimes too.

i'll vouch for spore frog.  love the card and has single handily saved my ass and turned games around surprise or no surprise. 

i like a lot of one drops to be in my deck and scute mob has worked well for me too. whether it's just drawing a kill spell for 1 mana, to hitting huge with rancor or sacrificing him to greater good.

one of my favorite combos is yavimaya elder + rancor + greater good.  pay the 2 to sacrifice and you have just drawn 7 cards, two or more of which are guaranteed lands than can be discarded if your pool is looking swell.

i love grave pact in this deck and have made many people quit games using it + bloodflow connoisseur and mitiotic slime.

i did not put a lot of bombs in my deck because i wanted early game synergy mostly and have included only 5 fatties to finish for me later on if needed.

deck:

Mana Cards

3x Evolving Wilds  
2x Viridian Emmisarry
2x Yavimaya Elder 
1x Yavimaya Dryad
2x Oracle Of Mul Daya - love this card.  filters the mana on the top of your deck so you always get a card you can play. 

Removal
2x Diabolic Edict 
4x Go For The Throat
2x Malestorm Pulse
1x Damnation
2x Pernicious Deed
1x Grave Pact  

Creatures
1x Spore Frog
2x Scute Mob
2x Blood Artist - have done huge damage turns with this one.  after i attack with my bombs then sac everything to finish off.
2x Bloodflow Connoisseur - works perfectly with grave pact and if one of your creatures is going to get taken or destroyed sac it for +1+1.
2x Master Of The Wild Hunt - great for tokens for blocking and sacking and general removal.
2x Mitotic Slime - one of the most important parts of this deck.  tons of sacking potential and leaves you with creatures after board wipe.
3x Vulturous Zombie - flier that builds pretty quick.

Bombs
2x Lord of Extinction - 5 mana for a huge creature and can rancor it so it gets through
2x Pelakka Wurm - life gain and 7/7 trample.  good late game card
1x Sewer Nemesis - can grow huge.  easy casting.

Other

2x Greater Good - when I first started playing this deck i didn't realise the potential with this card.  now i think it's amazing.
2x Rancor
1x Asceticism - you can use your blood artist to block!  save your creatures from being bounced/taken/destroyed.  nice card.
                      
May not be 60 cards but it works really well for me.



good deck combo and good to see own personalization. if you guys can come up with a intimidate style for this deck know kinda how to approach but not sure be very helpful thankx all
Ocal, yes you still want to be at 60 cards. Even with cantrips or deck thinning you still just want to hit your best cards more consistently.


There is only one reason Magic players run 60 cards religiously and that's to sideboard (61+ cards and you lose your 15 card sideboard). Sideboarding doesn't exist in DotP so the adherance to 60 is a non-issue.

61 cards gives you one more card without the game auto-adding lands. Probably a big deal since 4 of the cards you're adding ARE lands. 

I'm pretty sure you don't lose the option of a sideboard if you run more than 60 cards in tournament play. The basic rule is what you start with is what you end with. You're allowed a 15 card sideboard in addition to your main deck, but not required to run one. However, if you choose to use one, it must be exactly 15 cards. Between games, swaps must be made 1 for 1, so the sizes of the main deck and sideboard remain the same (15 and whatever deck size you entered with).
Yes Brodo that is right, you can have any deck size above 60 but your sideboard must be 0 or 15 cards.

I am fine with people playing 61 cards in DOTP as you cannot adjust your own land count. Any more than that however is wrong in terms of building the best possible deck
I am glad to see the new decks getting new threads.  There was so much speculation and prediction about how things would work in the original, the ideas in this one are based on observations;  big difference.  
Yes Brodo that is right, you can have any deck size above 60 but your sideboard must be 0 or 15 cards.

I am fine with people playing 61 cards in DOTP as you cannot adjust your own land count. Any more than that however is wrong in terms of building the best possible deck



Why is this true if your ratio of card types and mana curve is left intact? Unless you are dilluting your win conditions but what if by adding 5 more cards you add two more win conditions. Isn't that making your deck better?

Is there another reason? The more cards in your deck, the more likely you are to get get land screwed in either direction? What am I missing?


I am glad to see the new decks getting new threads.  There was so much speculation and prediction about how things would work in the original, the ideas in this one are based on observations;  big difference.  



I think it's completely pointless and any conversation in here could be had in the other threads.  The only reason to keep posting in these is some misguided attempt to divide the forums, in my opinion.



Why is this true if your ratio of card types and mana curve is left intact? Unless you are dilluting your win conditions but what if by adding 5 more cards you add two more win conditions. Isn't that making your deck better?

Is there another reason? The more cards in your deck, the more likely you are to get get land screwed in either direction? What am I missing?




The more cards in your deck, the less likely you are to draw the exact card you need at that moment (simple math really).
For example, if you must draw a Swords to Plowshares to answer an opponents threat, you are less likely to draw one the larger your deck is.

In short: a large deck is more versatile, but you need more luck to draw the right cards.

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Why is this true if your ratio of card types and mana curve is left intact? Unless you are dilluting your win conditions but what if by adding 5 more cards you add two more win conditions. Isn't that making your deck better?

Is there another reason? The more cards in your deck, the more likely you are to get get land screwed in either direction? What am I missing?




The more cards in your deck, the less likely you are to draw the exact card you need at that moment (simple math really).
For example, if you must draw a Swords to Plowshares to answer an opponents threat, you are less likely to draw one the larger your deck is.

In short: a large deck is more versatile, but you need more luck to draw the right cards.



Well, that is good and well but if you had more options in your deck from the start there is no knowing you would have only needed 1 and only 1 card at a specific time to win. Obviously something went wrong in the game if you need to topdeck a SINGLE card from your library. If I add five cards to my deck, one is a creature, one is an enchantment, one is a removal, etc, etc,....the ratio of my deck is not changinging and I am just as likely to draw the type of card I need at any time regardless of the amount of cards in it...

Also, the games where I need to draw only one specific card are one in 50 at best. There are many more games where I need to draw a type of card (e.g. land, removal, chump blocker, etc. so I am not sure how having 70 cards instead of 60 impacts this. If I decided to put in 10 creatures, sure, I have less chance of drawing removal when I need it that one time but the converse is that with more creatures, will I need the removal?



60 cards exactly is great if we had sideboarding, but without them I think this 60 card purism is misfounded....To me the point is to make a synergistic deck that can deal with a variety of situations.....the deck needs a theme with a few tricks/different ways to win. If you add in a couple of cards, don't change the ratio much and give yourself more ways to win I think you are not worse off. I think your deck is better..

I'm probably wrong but before I accept that someone needs to offer me a compelling reason why.

I understand how in some decks more is less. Obviously, getting a mirror out, a well of lost dreams etc........some cards are just too good to add more than 60 to a deck....

Also, if you ran 64 cards instead of 60 in Talrand, you would statistically get the mirror less but I'd doubt you would even notice it over a 100 game period and if the extra cards you added were card draw, you could actually help you get it more....
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