Making Mill Viable

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They are really pushing mill, but I don't feel as if they are doing it in the right way.  In all honestly, I think mill needs to do one thing (on a few cards)... Take basic utility cards and add a milling rider effect to them.

An Unsummon for :Um::Um: that mills 3 is my best example.
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Mill removal that shuffles cards or puts cards on top then mills. Broken ambitions was cool too.
Meh, WotC hasn't tried to make mill viable since Lorwyn. 
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57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
You'll have a lot more text (because milling is a lot of words) that will do absolutely nothing most of the time, even when you have cast about ten of those spells during a game. That's a terrible route.
Mill is my favourite way of playing magic and I will keep trying to make it work even though it doesn't. Right now I see 2 possible routes:

1) Blue/Black draw go control decks with Nephalia Drownyard that just kill/counter everything the opponent does until they slowly mill them away

2) dedicated Mill decks.

The first kind of folded with the printing of cards such as Cavern of Souls, and the second is not good enough. Creatures have gotten significantly better and you don't have enough time to mill them out.

The kind of mill card we need right now is something like Hedron Crab, that is cheap and doesnt require extra mana to mill away. Curse of the Bloody Tome could be decent if it wasnt so expensive and slow.

Honestly though, with the direction magic is going, mill will never be more than fringe playable, no matter what they print because you can't have enough resources to deal with their stuff (which are getting stronger and stronger) AND mill them fast enough. Not to mention how susceptile mill is to a little hate.

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Mill is my favourite way of playing magic and I will keep trying to make it work even though it doesn't. Right now I see 2 possible routes:

1) Blue/Black draw go control decks with Nephalia Drownyard that just kill/counter everything the opponent does until they slowly mill them away

2) dedicated Mill decks.

The first kind of folded with the printing of cards such as Cavern of Souls, and the second is not good enough. Creatures have gotten significantly better and you don't have enough time to mill them out.

The kind of mill card we need right now is something like Hedron Crab, that is cheap and doesnt require extra mana to mill away. Curse of the Bloody Tome could be decent if it wasnt so expensive and slow.

Honestly though, with the direction magic is going, mill will never be more than fringe playable, no matter what they print because you can't have enough resources to deal with their stuff (which are getting stronger and stronger) AND mill them fast enough. Not to mention how susceptile mill is to a little hate.


The longer time goes on, the more likely they are to completely misjudge a mill cards powerlevel and have it go bonkers.
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
The longer time goes on, the more likely they are to completely misjudge a mill cards powerlevel and have it go bonkers.


That day I will be a very happy man.

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
The longer time goes on, the more likely they are to completely misjudge a mill cards powerlevel and have it go bonkers.



That day I will be a very happy man.



I hear Sands of Delirium is a pretty good card for milling your opponent to death. :3 Makes control mirrors more fun atleast. Mill is less "not viable", and more "not reliable against some strategies"- which is why dedicated mill isn't made very strong (but to be frank, dedicated Mill isn't very fun) But it is right where it needs to be as far as alternative win-cons go. Psychic Spiral, for example- can turn self-mill into "mill them", which carries powerful- if not awkward- capability to matchups that would otherwise be "dead in the water" (it also allows you to rearrange your graveyard if you're playing a deck that wants to play Skaab Ruinator or what-have-you)

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Fenix. You see the problem, probably just as I do.  Either you pack too much mill into your deck to survive your opponent, or your deck isn't built with enough detication to mill the opponent.  If you could take basic removal or utility cards and add a small mill of two or three to them, for about :Um: more (or turning into :Um: ), deticated mill could do a much better job of surviving.
Like Psychic Barrier that mills for two, instead of making the player lose 1 life.

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Like, say, Induce Paranoia (counterspell + mill)? Or Vedalken Entrancer (awesome blocker + mill)?
Yes, in the case of Induce Paranoia, but more agressively costed (which they've done since then).

Vedalken Entrancer, Cathartic Adept, Hedron Crab and the like are all great mill creatures, and I won't say they aren't.  I'm just referencing Instants and Sorceries right now, though.
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I don't see why keywording mill is an issue. I also think mill is currently viable and fast. I just don't have the cards yet. Extirpate and extraction both mill, disrupt, and let you sneak a peek. on top of that ghost quarter has great synergy with mind funeral and archive trap. On top of that there's Glimpse the Unthinkable and you can Arcane Denial wich puts a penny toward the mill dollar and beats Counterspell in this strategy because of not needing UU. Fog Bank for soft yet reliable "removal". Innocent Blood is great when you don't run creatures. Stasis shenanigans make mill much scarier. Meekstone can also help to shut down creature based strategies (mills worst enemy).

That is all for now. 
Meh, WotC hasn't tried to make mill viable since Lorwyn. 



Bloodchief Ascension/Mindcrank

Hedron Crab saw play too.

They even made self-mill a wincon in Innistrad.

And there was this guy called Jace, the Mind Sculptor a few years back that you may have heard about.
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The way I see it mill's big problem is lack of interactivity. People want to be able to block the incomming mill but since it's spell/ability based that's not really an option. Maybe if we saw some mill triggers off of players taking combat damage (or when something would regularily deal damage instead of milling).
The other big problem is that milling someone is useless unless you get their last card. Damage dealing creatures and spells can stop your opponet's creatures too,but there's not much utility to mill effects.
 If there was a way to suddenly turn milled cards back into damage (I don't know maybe you exile them then have a spell/creature dealling damage equal to the exiled cards a player owns, maybe a creature that got bigger whenever a player milled) that might help. Undoing damage or healing opponents to make them mill would tackle the same issue. That or maybe cantrip-like mill effects.
I've had quite some success milling with [C]Trepanation Blade[/C] attached to [C]Undead Alchemist[/C]. It's a pretty self-perpetuating combo that mills your opponent while creating swarms of zombies
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