Best At-Will for White Lotus Master Riposte?

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I was wondering what CharOp community's thoughts were for the best At-Will (combo) to use use in conjunction with White Lotus Master Riposte feat?

Its benefit reads: "If you hit an enemy with an arcane at-will attack power and the enemy then attacks you before the start of your next turn, you can use an immediate reaction to repeat the at-will attack against that enemy alone, but only if the enemy is not marked by you."

Off the top of my head, the ones that come to mind include:

- Hexblade At-Wills
- Eldritch Strike
- Beast Switch
- Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch (Shadar-kai)

Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch can be particulary versatile since it is easier to trigger, as a range 10 melee basic attack (the other At-Wills are melee only).

Various ranged arcane at-wills with staff expertise (or other means to not provoke OA's) can be quite effective, too.  Maybe even better.


Having mentioned these options, I consider a top choice in my books to be...

Chaos Bolt with Sorcerous Blade Channeling.  It provides the versatilie targeting of Reaper's Touch Dragonfrost, with an Effect line for chaos sorcerors that can grant a potential 'bounce' with the luck of an even die roll.


Given the WLMR errata, can a WLMR chaos bolt still bounce?  Are any bursts/blasts still worth spamming with WLMR (or are they over-shadowed by single target At-Wills)?  What's your favorite WLMR at-will combo?
I was wondering what CharOp community's thoughts were for the best At-Will (combo) to use use in conjunction with White Lotus Master Riposte feat?

Its benefit reads: "If you hit an enemy with an arcane at-will attack power and the enemy then attacks you before the start of your next turn, you can use an immediate reaction to repeat the at-will attack against that enemy alone, but only if the enemy is not marked by you."

Off the top of my head, the one's that come to mind include:

- Hexblade At-Wills
- Eldritch Strike
- Beast Switch
- Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch (Shadar-kai)

Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch can be particulary versatile since it is easier to trigger, as a range 10 melee basic attack (the other At-Wills are melee only).

Various ranged arcane at-wills with staff expertise (or other means to not provoke OA's) can be quite effective, too.  Maybe even better.


Having mentioned these options, I consider a top choice in my books to be...

Chaos Bolt with Sorcerous Blade Channeling.  It provides the versatilie targeting of Reaper's Touch Dragonfrost, with an Effect line for chaos sorcerors that can grants a potential 'bounce' with the luck of an even die roll.


Given the WLMR errata, can a WLMR chaos bolt still bounce?  Are any bursts/blasts still worth spamming with WLMR (or are they over-shadowed by single target At-Wills)?  What's your favorite WLMR at-will combo?

thinking beyond the power itself.. you are looking for a class which would encourage the monster to attack you in the first place without marking it. Whats the point of having the awesome combo if you never get to use it?

I wonder if there was some way to get this going on a esentials berserker considering their defending mechanic doesnt actually mark... 
Booming blade + mark of storms.

Knights/cavaliers/beserkers do a good job making a catch-22. Any immobilize or prone will likey work. Persuit avengers to a lesser degree.

Half-elfs can snag one with a different class.

Hmm.. half-elf persuit avenger with flail expertise, booming blade, and mark of storms should be pretty nasty.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Don't forget hellish rebuke.  You hit him, he hits you, takes damage, then you hit him again.
You really have to widen the context, because so many other elements can effect what you're doing.  I've never really seen builds using the "target versatility" of something like Dragonfrost because it's just too easy for the target to attack someone else.

Generally the best use is to put the monster in a situation where it's forced to attack you so you can hit him again.  Your Dragonfrost example is a great way of discouraging things from attacking you, but that's not really something we can measure and it's not the kind of proactive damage dealing that gets encounters over quicker.

Personally I like Eldritch Strike because there's about a million and one things you can do with it, but yeah Booming Blade makes a pretty great lose-lose situation for the target.
Considering Chaos Bolt gets to repeatedly attack the primary target anyway (no clause in the secondary attack saying that it has to be a different target from the primary target, which is clearly within 5 of itself), it's not really an issue unless you kill the target and get to continue bouncing. The only thing keeping Chaos Bolt from being an auto-pick for Wild Sorcs is that probability is against you, having to hit and roll even and then hit again gives you only an 18%-24.5% (Hit on 8 - Hit on 6) which then degrades to 5.4%-8.6% to hit with a 3rd bounce, which at mid-paragon is only 7.5-10.5 bonus damage per use, at 2 attacks/round it still falls short compared to RBA enabling.

I personally like Ensorcelled Blade for WLMR use, because if they're attacking you, then they're going to take your Spell Source damage again (6 to 8 in Paragon, 10 to 12 in Epic) which also dips into your Extra Damage sources (notably Vuln), on top of WLR and the WLMR, only slightly behind Chaos Bolt. If you're dealing with a multi-attacker, it now faces your Spell Source damage twice (and WLR once or twice, unclear if it stacks) if it attacks you again. Add a leader having granted a MBA, and you add on another damage isntance against your attacker.

(Now wondering why I don't just play Permafrost with my Sorc)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Chaos Bolt specifies that "You can attack a creature only once with a single use of this power."
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
^That. It has always been like that.
You're right, I knew there was a reason I never bothered calculating a 2nd bounce for my DPR.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Chaos bolt with WLMR is still pretty good, though. So long as the enemies are not surrounding the group and you are at the frontline, one of the enemies is very likely to include you in an attack on their turn. As to whether or not it bounces, by RAW it should. However, since WLMR has been specifically nerfed to prevent the granted attack from attacking multiple enemies, none of the DM's I've played with so far have granted me the bounce, which I suppose is fair enough.

 Furthermore, on a pure sorc, I kinda like ensorcellated blade + WLMR + repel charge (if you can spare that last feat). When you get charged, you get to attack the enemy twice.
Don't forget hellish rebuke.  You hit him, he hits you, takes damage, then you hit him again.


Why on earth would they hit you again in this instance?

The thing with WLMR is that they actually need some reason to attack you, in order to proc it.

E: Accordingly, the best at-will for this is almost certainly Eldritch Strike.  You hit the enemy, leaving them prone and adjacent to you (flail expertise, dragging flail), and then their choices in most cases are basically, stand and attack you, or provoke.  At which point, either choice means they eat ES.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

As thespaceinvader points out, WLMR is nigh worthless without very substantial means of forcing the target to hit back. The most damaging build I've found that meets that criteria:

Con-Cha Half-Elf Knight/Warden/Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Eldritch Strike
Yakuza Theme

At level 12 with 48K in gear:


+20 to hit. (+6lvl+6Con+2enh+2prof+2feat+1cls+1PP)
  +5 with OA after hit with CA TEONT
  +2 with CA
  +1 on charge
1d10+27 lightning slowed and slide 1. (+6Con+6Con+6Con+2enh+3feat+2item+1cls+1shard)
  +4 vs bloodied
  +5 with OA after hit with CA TEONT
  +6 lightning if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +ImRe MBA if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +1d10 immobilized while adj and CA both TEONT 2/enc
  +1d6 on charge
  +2d6 lightning on crit

Just spamming Eldritch Strike, Power Strike, and WLMR, and assuming optimal tactics by the targets (i.e., no attempts to withdraw), this build has a 0.53 KPR, which would place it 10th on the L12 top strikers list the last time that I looked. 


 
Another options are the Swordmage powers Frigid Blade and Booming Blade (attacking an unmarked enemy of course). BB creates a nice little catch-22, and if you use FB with high enough CON most targets can only attack you, make a ranged attack (and provoking) or do nothing at all. Not the most damaging powers, but very effective ones nonetheless.

The obvious problem is of course that you lose your IA, thus can't reinforce your mark anymore. But that doesn't matter if you weren't playing as a defender in the first place.
Another options are the Swordmage powers Frigid Blade and Booming Blade (attacking an unmarked enemy of course). BB creates a nice little catch-22, and with high enough CON most targets can only attack you, make a ranged attack (and provoking) or do nothing at all. Not the most damaging powers, but very effective ones nonetheless.

The obvious problem is of course that you lose your IA, thus can't reinforce your mark anymore. But that doesn't matter if you weren't playing as a defender in the first place. 


Or, if you're playing a Knight ;)
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Another options are the Swordmage powers Frigid Blade and Booming Blade (attacking an unmarked enemy of course). BB creates a nice little catch-22, and with high enough CON most targets can only attack you, make a ranged attack (and provoking) or do nothing at all. Not the most damaging powers, but very effective ones nonetheless.

The obvious problem is of course that you lose your IA, thus can't reinforce your mark anymore. But that doesn't matter if you weren't playing as a defender in the first place. 

Booming blade is quite damaging.  You get a full, seperate damage roll.  So it ends up being a twin-strike-like attack.

It's pretty broken if you use the "each square" reading.  (it's really rather vauge).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Another options are the Swordmage powers Frigid Blade and Booming Blade (attacking an unmarked enemy of course). BB creates a nice little catch-22, and with high enough CON most targets can only attack you, make a ranged attack (and provoking) or do nothing at all. Not the most damaging powers, but very effective ones nonetheless.

The obvious problem is of course that you lose your IA, thus can't reinforce your mark anymore. But that doesn't matter if you weren't playing as a defender in the first place. 

Booming blade is quite damaging.  You get a full, seperate damage roll.  So it ends up being a twin-strike-like attack.

It's pretty broken if you use the "each square" reading.  (it's really rather vague).


I like a Half-elf Sorcerer with decent Con, WLMR, Booming Blade and Adept Dilettante so you can use Cha for attack and damage. 
Another options are the Swordmage powers Frigid Blade and Booming Blade (attacking an unmarked enemy of course). BB creates a nice little catch-22, and with high enough CON most targets can only attack you, make a ranged attack (and provoking) or do nothing at all. Not the most damaging powers, but very effective ones nonetheless.

The obvious problem is of course that you lose your IA, thus can't reinforce your mark anymore. But that doesn't matter if you weren't playing as a defender in the first place. 

Booming blade is quite damaging.  You get a full, seperate damage roll.  So it ends up being a twin-strike-like attack.

It's pretty broken if you use the "each square" reading.  (it's really rather vague).


I like a Half-elf Sorcerer with decent Con, WLMR, Booming Blade and Adept Dilettante so you can use Cha for attack and damage. 

That should be pretty impressive.  Probably grab the windrider PP as well.

I heard sorcerers can be pretty defensive, but i havn't built one so i don't know (could always add revenant if needed).  And they i don't think they have many immidiate's to compete, but they might not have many minors to suppliment either.

You going to build that out? 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

That should be pretty impressive.  Probably grab the windrider PP as well.

I heard sorcerers can be pretty defensive, but i havn't built one so i don't know (could always add revenant if needed).  And they i don't think they have many immidiate's to compete, but they might not have many minors to suppliment either.

You going to build that out? 


Nah, if anything I should be finishing that handbook  

Also, I don't really believe in at-will optimization on strikers except for Essentials classes and Lair Assault. The former could be interesting as an Elementalist, if it weren't for the fact that your encounter powers only trigger on Sorcerer at-wills. The latter doesn't go into paragon, so there's no point to developing this trick for that end either. 

Lastly, the trick doesn't require that much investment, so I think you're better off just tacking this onto an otherwise generic Half-elf close burst Sorcerer.
There is probably enough material to build a WLMR party.

Half-elf Knight (with any arcane power really, eldritch strike, sword burst, booming blade, beast switch, whatever)
Earth Genasi Hellish Rebuke Warlock|Swordmage Mercenary with powers like Eldritch Quagmire, using prone and difficult terrain to keep things next to you.
Half-elf Booming Blade Sorcerer
Hybrid or Human Cavalier with Virtuous Strike Power of Arcana, and/or maybe Fascinating Shadows hybriding Warlock.
Artificer with Ethereal Chill?

Bad choices everywhere for the enemies. Of course it's pretty gimmicky, as it's not hard to fill up your immediate actions with other useful stuff by paragon.


 
There is probably enough material to build a WLMR party.

Half-elf Knight (with any arcane power really, eldritch strike, sword burst, booming blade, beast switch, whatever)
Earth Genasi Hellish Rebuke Warlock|Swordmage Mercenary with powers like Eldritch Quagmire, using prone and difficult terrain to keep things next to you.
Half-elf Booming Blade Sorcerer
Hybrid or Human Cavalier with Virtuous Strike Power of Arcana, and/or maybe Fascinating Shadows hybriding Warlock.
Artificer with Ethereal Chill?

Bad choices everywhere for the enemies. Of course it's pretty gimmicky, as it's not hard to fill up your immediate actions with other useful stuff by paragon. 

Artificer can probably just use magic weapon.  Any immidiates can be ally boosting immidates.  You won't neccicaraly be attacked every turn.

I will also toss out swordburst.  Sure, you can't riposte everyone, but you can "anti-mark" alot of people at once.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.


As thespaceinvader points out, WLMR is nigh worthless without very substantial means of forcing the target to hit back. The most damaging build I've found that meets that criteria:

Con-Cha Half-Elf Knight/Warden/Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Eldritch Strike
Yakuza Theme

Just spamming Eldritch Strike, Power Strike, and WLMR, and assuming optimal tactics by the targets (i.e., no attempts to withdraw), this build has a 0.53 KPR, which would place it 10th on the L12 top strikers list the last time that I looked. 


 



See this thread for a Proning Eldritch Striking Avenger that does 0.56 KPR (67.3 DPR) at level 12 only with Eldritch Strike/WLMR.  It's also LFR legal and scales well into epic (1.0 KPR, ~12th on DPR Kings).  

In your Knight/Warden build, are you counting WLMR as a opportunity attack?  Is there a thread for it?

Scorpion Knight: High Armor, High Damage in Heroic Safe Haven: Stay near me and never get hit Eldritch Avenger: Crit Fishing at level 12, LFR friendly

In your Knight/Warden build, are you counting WLMR as a opportunity attack?

No, of course not. The Yakuza benefits only would come up if a gracious DM plays dumb and decides that, once the Knight has demonstrated his WLMR Fu, a reasonable monster would a) go find a more fragile target if he is going to get off-turn attacked regardless and b) use a move action to disengage since shifts are worthless against a Knight, normally. Maybe once or twice in a typical encounter, I would think.

Is there a thread for it?

No, never posted it. There's a similar build in the Knight examples. I do have a Con-Wis version fully realized:



Detective Beatstick
Half-Elf Knight/Warden/Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Level 12
Str 14, Con 22, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 20, Cha 11
Athletics+15, Diplomacy+15, Insight+21, Nature+18, Perception+19
  +1 racial to Diplomacy for allies within 10
Elemental Initiate Theme
Detective Background

+20 to hit. (+6lvl+6Con+2enh+2prof+2feat+1cls+1PP)
  +2 with CA
  +1 on charge
1d10+27 lightning slowed and slide 1. (+6Con+6Con+6Con+2enh+3feat+2item+1cls+1shard)
  +4 vs bloodied
  +6 lightning if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +ImRe MBA if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +1d10 immobilized while adj and CA both TEONT 2/enc
  +1d6 on charge
  +2d6 lightning on crit


AC 31. (16+10armr+2shld+3enh)
  +1 item after shift TEONT
Fortitude 27. (19+6Con+2cls)
Reflex 21. (19+0Dex+2shld)
  +1 item after shift TEONT
Will 25. (19+5Wis+1pwr)
---
103 HPs and 15 26i-pt Surges
  On lightning damage enemy within 5 takes 10 lightning


Initiative+10. Move 6. Low-Light Vision.
  No OAs for charge movement
Fly 6 (hover) on AP TEONT
  +1 to any Fly speed
Common, Elven, Giant.


1: Shield Finesse
4: Defender of the Wild
4: Crippling Crush
6: Ki Focus Expertise
10: Mark of Storm
11: Versatile Master
11: White Lotus Riposte
12: White Lotus Master Riposte
12: Lightning Soul


1: Cleaving Assault
1: Defend the Line
7: Measured Cut
---
1: Battle Guardian
11: Eldritch Strike
---
1: Disciplined Counter
1: Power Strike with Staggering Hammer
3: Power Strike with Staggering Hammer
11: Wind Burst
---
A1: Defender Aura
E2: Balancing Step
A6: Kord's Force
E8: Shield Block
E10: Hold Your Ground
D12: Zephyr Wings
---
D3: Minor. Party +1 to single skill TEOE.
E5: Standard. MBA at range 20.
D5: After hit with hammer, teleport target 10 to adj.
E7: Minor. Shift 2.
D9: After hit, teleport adj to enemy within 5 and MBA.


39015/48000
12: Karach Plate +3 13000
12: Badge of the Berserker +3 13000
9: Forked Lightning Ki Focus +2 4200
7: Boots of the Fencing Master 2600
6: Horned Helm 1800
5: Fey Strike Warhammer +1 1000
4: Gauntlets of Blood +2 840
3: Ioun's Revelation +2 680
2: Belt of Vigor +1 520
2: Bracers of Mighty Striking +2 520
2: Eberron Shard of Lightning +1 520
0: Heavy Shield 10
---
2: Endure Elements 100/20
3: Summon Winds 125/50
2: Water Walk 100/20

How is Detective Beatstick taking White Lotus Repost without an arcane class?

While 13 Strength seems shaky in Heroic, it looks fun in Paragon.

Scorpion Knight: High Armor, High Damage in Heroic Safe Haven: Stay near me and never get hit Eldritch Avenger: Crit Fishing at level 12, LFR friendly

How is Detective Beatstick taking White Lotus Repost without an arcane class?

Crap, he isn't. I've never actually played the build, so no one's yet had the chance to slap me upside the head and remind me to read the White Lotus feat descriptions.

Obviously, either you have to drop Warden/Crippling Crush or the PP to take Traveler's Harlequin to make this build work. Either way, it's a net -6 to MBA damage. The former approach probably is better, because this build was heading for a conflict with a strict DM at L21, when you'd be trying to convert the slow rider into a daze with Overwhelming Impact and qualify for Crippling Crush with the, erm, slow rider that you just converted into a daze.

So probably best to go Warden in early heroic then retrain Crippling Crush to Mark of Storm at L9, followed by Defender of the Wild to an arcane MC at L10. That also frees up a much needed feat slot so that you can swap Improved Defenses for Superior Fortitude and take Superior Will at L14.

While 13 Strength seems shaky in Heroic, it looks fun in Paragon.

Well, with the modifications above you end up with:
L1-3 (Melee Training on Con 19 vs theoretical Str 17/Con17): +1 to hit but -1 damage
L4-8 (add Crippling Crush to Con 20 vs theory Str 18/Con18): +1 to hit but -1 damage
L9-10 (retrain Crippling Crush ): +1 to hit but -2 to damage
L11: Versatile Master to the rescue.

I'd suggest it's a small price to pay for maintaining a second strong NAD.
In your Knight/Warden build, are you counting WLMR as a opportunity attack?

No, of course not. The Yakuza benefits only would come up if a gracious DM plays dumb and decides that, once the Knight has demonstrated his WLMR Fu, a reasonable monster would a) go find a more fragile target if he is going to get off-turn attacked regardless and b) use a move action to disengage since shifts are worthless against a Knight, normally. Maybe once or twice in a typical encounter, I would think.

Is there a thread for it?

No, never posted it. There's a similar build in the Knight examples. I do have a Con-Wis version fully realized:



Detective Beatstick
Half-Elf Knight/Warden/Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Level 12
Str 14, Con 22, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 20, Cha 11
Athletics+15, Diplomacy+15, Insight+21, Nature+18, Perception+19
  +1 racial to Diplomacy for allies within 10
Elemental Initiate Theme
Detective Background

+20 to hit. (+6lvl+6Con+2enh+2prof+2feat+1cls+1PP)
  +2 with CA
  +1 on charge
1d10+27 lightning slowed and slide 1. (+6Con+6Con+6Con+2enh+3feat+2item+1cls+1shard)
  +4 vs bloodied
  +6 lightning if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +ImRe MBA if struck target attacks in reply before SONT
  +1d10 immobilized while adj and CA both TEONT 2/enc
  +1d6 on charge
  +2d6 lightning on crit


AC 31. (16+10armr+2shld+3enh)
  +1 item after shift TEONT
Fortitude 27. (19+6Con+2cls)
Reflex 21. (19+0Dex+2shld)
  +1 item after shift TEONT
Will 25. (19+5Wis+1pwr)
---
103 HPs and 15 26i-pt Surges
  On lightning damage enemy within 5 takes 10 lightning


Initiative+10. Move 6. Low-Light Vision.
  No OAs for charge movement
Fly 6 (hover) on AP TEONT
  +1 to any Fly speed
Common, Elven, Giant.


1: Shield Finesse
4: Defender of the Wild
4: Crippling Crush
6: Ki Focus Expertise
10: Mark of Storm
11: Versatile Master
11: White Lotus Riposte
12: White Lotus Master Riposte
12: Lightning Soul


1: Cleaving Assault
1: Defend the Line
7: Measured Cut
---
1: Battle Guardian
11: Eldritch Strike
---
1: Disciplined Counter
1: Power Strike with Staggering Hammer
3: Power Strike with Staggering Hammer
11: Wind Burst
---
A1: Defender Aura
E2: Balancing Step
A6: Kord's Force
E8: Shield Block
E10: Hold Your Ground
D12: Zephyr Wings
---
D3: Minor. Party +1 to single skill TEOE.
E5: Standard. MBA at range 20.
D5: After hit with hammer, teleport target 10 to adj.
E7: Minor. Shift 2.
D9: After hit, teleport adj to enemy within 5 and MBA.


39015/48000
12: Karach Plate +3 13000
12: Badge of the Berserker +3 13000
9: Forked Lightning Ki Focus +2 4200
7: Boots of the Fencing Master 2600
6: Horned Helm 1800
5: Fey Strike Warhammer +1 1000
4: Gauntlets of Blood +2 840
3: Ioun's Revelation +2 680
2: Belt of Vigor +1 520
2: Bracers of Mighty Striking +2 520
2: Eberron Shard of Lightning +1 520
0: Heavy Shield 10
---
2: Endure Elements 100/20
3: Summon Winds 125/50
2: Water Walk 100/20



I did something similar with McBard and Half-Elf Polymath.  Putting in Skald for Master of Stories and one of the Skald at-wills at 16 is pretty tight on a Knight...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
I did something similar with McBard and Half-Elf Polymath.  Putting in Skald for Master of Stories and one of the Skald at-wills at 16 is pretty tight on a Knight...

I looked at that approach, because I love using Master of Stories and a Skald at-will to thumb my build's half-elven nose at Versatile Master.

But ... Skald at-wills aren't arcane. The at-will attack power for WLR/WLMR has to be arcane*, and I don't know how to add that keyword to a Half-Elf Knight/Skald/XXX build. What did you do?

* That's the prerequisite that I remembered ... 
Half-Elf Polymath gives you an additional Dilettante at 16 ;)  So you use ES as per usual, and tack on, say, Song of Serendipity for funsies.  It takes a couple of rounds to set up because of the Skald Aura's clunky mechanics, but if you're close enough to charge, you can get it going straight off.  Kind of a fun combo.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
I'm rather fond of a Half-Elf Knight/War Wizard of Cormyr with Adept Dilettante Beast Switch.  Feat space is tight, though.
My pet WLMR build (that I've never gotten to play) is a Warlock|Sorcerer Revenant Shadar Kai who uses a Reaper's Touched Acid Orb (I like its range, that it attacks reflex, and its damage die is independent of my puny dagger's) on charge attacks.  Staff of the Traveler off-hand, some teleport-boosters, and Evermeet Warlock let me become invisible to an adjacent foe at will while teleporting away to charge back in with an attack.  Purple Dragon background lets me teleport again after the attack to re-stealth during the enemy's turn.  Mark of Finding lets me shift after the enemy if they try to move away from me.

So the way this plays out is that I charge an enemy, stab with Acid Orb, and then disappear.  If they figure out that I teleported directly behind them and take a swing1, I WLMR them.  If they decide to go fight that guy over there, I OA them.  If they decide to range-attack that guy over there, I OA them (obviously artillery are my favourite food).  If they shift to get away from me and then move or attack, I OA them.  I'm pretty sure the only way a target can avoid getting hit again while doing anything constructive is to melee attack one of my allies (or ready an attack for when I reappear2), but that can be controlled with positioning.  At the start of my next turn I briefly appear as I lose invisibility (though Planestrider Boots make it easy for me to still have concealment), take any readied actions to hit me once I'm visible on the chin, and then disappear to repeat the process.

__
1 Even if they do hit me through invisibility penalties and Marauder's Armor/Cloak of Translocation/Defensive Advantage/Warding Curse defense bonuses, Sehanine's Mark of the Dark Moon ensures that they do so for half damage.

2 I don't really have a means of dealing with this per se as it shuts down both my WLMR and my invisibility defense, but once I've got them paranoid enough that they're just standing there readying attacks against an invisible threat I can simply teleport to some other foe (or drop back and plink from range for lulz) and mess with them while the readied attack fizzles. 
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.) Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
Why is Acid Orb any better for this than Eldritch Strike would be?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Apparently 3 damage is worth giving up a slide.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Booming blade + mark of storms. Knights/cavaliers/beserkers do a good job making a catch-22. Any immobilize or prone will likey work. Persuit avengers to a lesser degree. Half-elfs can snag one with a different class. Hmm.. half-elf persuit avenger with flail expertise, booming blade, and mark of storms should be pretty nasty.

Booming Blade seems like a really *good* at-will for WLMR.  It seems like you need that, defender's aura, or means to knock a standard enemy adjacent and prone to create Catch-22's these days.  And without a catch-22, I agree with Scatterbrained... it's too easy for the target to attack someone else (with the WLMR mark nerf).

You really have to widen the context, because so many other elements can effect what you're doing.  I've never really seen builds using the "target versatility" of something like Dragonfrost because it's just too easy for the target to attack someone else.

Generally the best use is to put the monster in a situation where it's forced to attack you so you can hit him again.  Your Dragonfrost example is a great way of discouraging things from attacking you, but that's not really something we can measure and it's not the kind of proactive damage dealing that gets encounters over quicker.

I mentioned Dragonfrost because it's the only itemless arcane RBA that can push at will (does forceful bow property apply to implement attacks?)  And a ranged push is far easier to bolster than a ranged slide, thereby triggering prone with Polearm Momentum.

I was considering a niche build -- half-elf elementalist MC fighter with Ensorcelled Blade and Dragonfrost at-wills.  Utilize glaive weapliment (via Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blades)) in one hand and dagger in off-hand (leveraging Dual Implement Spellcaster).  Pickup Polearm Momentum and convert dilettante ranger at-will --> Rapid Shot via Archery Mastery.  Take Iron Vanguard PP.  Now you can deploy Dragonfrost in hard hitting Burst 1, proning all hit targets.  Then move adjacent to one or more and you have catch-22.  Thoughts?

And is the general consensus that WLMR works for Chaos Bolt 'bounces'?
Mm, this is what confuses me.  Acid Orb is great, but losing the slide (which, for basically 0 investment, could be a prone) is horrendous if you really want to be catch-22ing people.  Prone people have even fewer choices than standing people...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Many reasons, some of which I already stated.  I like that AO hits reflex and has the versatility of being either a MBA or a RBA with a 20-square range.  Additionally I find it worthwhile for the damaging at-will to be from Sorcerer so that I can stack Warlock's Curse with Sorcerous Power, not to mention using Arcane Spellfury and Ruthless Spellfury for more accuracy and free attacks on crits.  Oh, and while Acid Orb having a native damage type is theoretically limiting, it becomes a boon when I admixture frost (for Wintercheese, don't judge me) because few things resist both acid and frost. Lastly I like to keep my Warlock at-will free for Eyebite as a clutch utility source of invisibility when I just can't make it work with teleports.

So yeah, I'm willing to give up a slide for increased accuracy, a bigger damage die, nigh-irresistible damage types, superior versatility in range, superior utility in alternative at-will, phenomenal feat support, and having access to an entire other class' damage feature.

Thespaceinvader, I've been out of the game for a while; how can I so easily parlay a slide into a prone? 
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.) Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
Hitting Ref makes no difference when ES gets a proficiency bonus.  They're basically equivalent.  You can't stack curse on top of Sorc Power on a hybrid, hybrid curse only works on warlock and warlock PP powers.  You can use a weapon of your choice for ES, so the damage dice (which is relatively unimportant anyway) is entirely immaterial.

So, it's not more accurate, it shouldn't be any more damaging, you're wrong about being able to use Curse on it, so yeah.

You use a flail and flail expertise.  A prone enemy has fewer choices than a standing enemy.  And you don't have to be a shadar-kai to make it work.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Bah, you're absolutely right on the curse, of course.  I knew that, once upon a time.  Upon returning I skimmed the entry for Hybrid Warlock and, assuming everything pertinent would be in the power's stat block (what a silly assumption!) thought it'd been errata'd.

Right also on the accuracy, though I think one will have better luck with implement v. reflex than the flail's +2 prof v. AC.

I still think that the feat support for Sorc at-wills and other factors are nontrivial, but it's hard to argue with flail expertise (which came along since I've been away).  Thanks for the heads-up.  Considering I've got a lot invested in having a dagger main hand (Incisive grants a lot of mobility) I doubt it'd fit in this build, but I may have to cook up a variant.  There could be a lot of fun in a flail-wielding Goblin Cunning Sneak Rogue|Warlock who gets to teleport away whenever a melee attack misses her...
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.) Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
Alhulak is +3 and you'd be daft not to use it ;)
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Accuracy is downright the same. Normally defenses stand at level+15 for AC and level+12 for NADs. With a +3 weapon you have exactly the same chance to hit. That is, unless you use a Light Blade or a Spear, then you'll have your proficiency bonus and you can target Reflexes, being a MBA.
Or a pick and fortitude.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Accuracy is downright the same. Normally defenses stand at level+15 for AC and level+12 for NADs. With a +3 weapon you have exactly the same chance to hit. That is, unless you use a Light Blade or a Spear, then you'll have your proficiency bonus and you can target Reflexes, being a MBA.


Level+14 AC for Controllers, Lurkers, Skirmishers. Level+12 AC for Brutes, Artillery, Level+16 AC for Soldiers. Average: 13.67. Neither 'mean', 'median', nor 'mode' result in Level+15 being accurate.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Sigh, I was trying to give a general picture just out of my head, but I see CharOP needs to be accurate about numbers, lesson learned.

Level+14 (median and mode) would be more accurate to give an idea. Without doing all the math, you're losing out on hit only with a Weapon attack vs AC on a Soldier-type monster, anywhere else you're at least matching an Implement's accuracy. If you can target a NAD with a Weapon attack, you're gaining every time, regardless of monster type.

Of course, individual monster stats can and will differ from the general values, but you get the picture.