Can Hybrids Multiclass?

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Hello, my question is about hybriding and multiclassing. If a player makes a hybrid Wizard/Bard, can they only multiclass once or twice because they are a bard? Would appreciate any feedback.
Hello, my question is about hybriding and multiclassing. If a player makes a hybrid Wizard/Bard, can they only multiclass once or twice because they are a bard? Would appreciate any feedback.




1. Hybrids can multiclass - So you can make a Wizard|Bard/Sorcerer
2. Hybrid Bards do not have "Multiclass Versitility" that allows them to Multiclass more than once.  
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I appreciate the answer, for my friend is planning on a Genasi werewolf/vampire/wizard/bard, along with being able to use every genasi element available, so this is a good reference thanks!
Your friend is definitely not an optimizer! You'll find that such an approach will quickly drop the chracter "behind" the other PCs of equal level. But if your friend has fun with it, nothing else matters.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Your friend is definitely not an optimizer! You'll find that such an approach will quickly drop the chracter "behind" the other PCs of equal level. But if your friend has fun with it, nothing else matters.

He definitely may need to work with the DM to help him with some of the potential math issues that will occur because of this. Perhaps he will give him an extra feat or two to help him keep up with the other characters. Hope he has fun with it!
I appreciate the answer, for my friend is planning on a Genasi werewolf/vampire/wizard/bard, along with being able to use every genasi element available, so this is a good reference thanks!



werewolf is a theme indepedant of character class.

sorc/bard + wizard mutliclass might work better simply to the ability score disbursement but it still would have issues with being effective. curious as to why he wants boith wizard and sorc at the same time... 
I don't think genasai can be a vampire, as they are elemental and  bloodline requires you to be a natural creature. Does the werewolf theme also share this restriction?

Sorc/wizard could make for a decent striker depending on his feat choice.


Sorc/wizard could make for a decent striker depending on his feat choice.



Passable yes, but I got ripped apart on the CharOpt board trying to justify it as even remotely good. Make one of those the multiclass feat for the occasional powerswap or class feat. the other two potential combos might have relaistic potential (there is actually a paragon path spefically for bard/wizards) 

I never said it would be good combination, only decent. It would be slightly less effective than a pyromancer damage wise, (after one feat) but It would miss out on far too much else. 

One thing to remember about character op is that they are there to make optimal characters. If you have a cool idea for a hybrid that you're trying to make passable they will not usually be very helpful.
I don't think genasai can be a vampire, as they are elemental and  bloodline requires you to be a natural creature. Does the werewolf theme also share this restriction?

Sorc/wizard could make for a decent striker depending on his feat choice.



The Vampire class does not have such restriction. Its just terrible though.
Vampire Heritage actually only requires "Living Humanoid race" which means no Revenant, but Fey Immortal and Elemental Origin Races are fine.

There are three other options anyway.
1. Pure Bard can multiclass into Sorcerer, Wizard, and Vampire. The base Vampire MC is seriously underpowered as mentioned, (reducing your surges to 2? YIKES)
2. If you're playing into Epic, you can take the Reincarnate Champion destiny, which would allow you to choose a second (and third) race; obviously choosing Vryloka in this case.
3. Refluff. I know it's not a popular option on this particular forum, but unless you actually want to deal with the penalties/benefits of mechanically being a vampire, you can (and are encouraged by WotC to do so) describe and roleplay your character as one.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The vampire class isn't terrible, Its just not particularly good either.

Good advice Zathris, and I find it a bit odd that re-fluffing is looked down upon.

Does the regeneration gained by the vampire mc help to make up for the lost surges, or do you find it too miniscule to make a difference?



The vampire class isn't terrible, Its just not particularly good either.

Good advice Zathris, and I find it a bit odd that re-fluffing is looked down upon.

Does the regeneration gained by the vampire mc help to make up for the lost surges, or do you find it too miniscule to make a difference?





No, it really is terrible.  You can make it not-awful by taking a couple of other feats based on your base classes (Martial and Divine Vampire are good), but it really is terrible.  Reducing your surges to 2 is far too big a cost when you don't get surges as an encounter resource the wayt he pure-class Vamp does.  And even then, they're terrible, because they don't have any focus on their role, and are accordingly, not up to the standard of other strikers.

If you want to be a vampire, there are mechanical ways that aren't terrible (although, Vampire Heritage and Vryloka are not particularly good either), but the best way would be to role play it...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

One thing to remember about character op is that they are there to make optimal characters. If you have a cool idea for a hybrid that you're trying to make passable they will not usually be very helpful.


 Actually, what you need to do is state that you're trying to optimize the character within specific limits and parameters and toward certain specific goals, and clearly spell those out in your opening sentence. If you just ask "How can I make this better?" then "Play something else." is a perfectly valid response. And if what you're attempting to do can't be done or can't be done effectively, then telling you that is giving you the best advice they're able to.

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The vampire class isn't terrible, Its just not particularly good either.

Good advice Zathris, and I find it a bit odd that re-fluffing is looked down upon.

Does the regeneration gained by the vampire mc help to make up for the lost surges, or do you find it too miniscule to make a difference?





No, it really is terrible.  You can make it not-awful by taking a couple of other feats based on your base classes (Martial and Divine Vampire are good), but it really is terrible.  Reducing your surges to 2 is far too big a cost when you don't get surges as an encounter resource the wayt he pure-class Vamp does.  And even then, they're terrible, because they don't have any focus on their role, and are accordingly, not up to the standard of other strikers.

If you want to be a vampire, there are mechanical ways that aren't terrible (although, Vampire Heritage and Vryloka are not particularly good either), but the best way would be to role play it...


Yeah, I was being kind in the simplicity of my previous remark. I always worry about making an honest critique about the vampire because I know how stubborn gamers are, if 5 people ask about playing a vampire, and we (meaning the best optimizers on the forums) respond by saying how terrible they are, and "you should play something else", 2 of those 5 are going to still play a vampire because they don't care if they are bad and 2 of those 5 are going to still play a vampire because they don't believe us and think "I can make it good!" and the 5th person will switch to a Revenant Genasi Ranger|Cleric or some other Optimized build that is suitably Angsty/Goth/Emo/Punk.

Vampire isn't just bad. It's "Dumb Blonde in the Woods in a Horror Movie" bad. As TSI said, they don't have any focus on their role, which wouldn't be so bad except their options are almost entirely sub-par for whatever role they belong to; they are the worst striker, the worst controller, and don't even register as defenders or leaders, and I don't just mean among that role - a properly built Pacifist Cleric is going to contribute more damage than the Vampire can. They have next to no support, less than the next worst off class by half, and all of those feats require you to Multiclass or Hybrid anyway.

Be that 5th person.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.