anyone else getting mana-screwed 4 out of every 5 games?

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Im already ready to go back to mono-coloured decks. This is insane.
I forget which topic I said it in, but I predicted this would happen.  I'm convinced it has something to do with the way the shuffler treats Evolving Wilds/Terramorphics.  Every dual color deck has a much higher chance than should be normal of opening with a hand that has 0-2 lands, and often persists over several mulligans.

It's not 4 out of 5, but it's worse than it should be.  Now just wait for the mathematicians to tell you it's all in your head and the shuffler is perfect.
Ye, way tooooo many expensive cards and way toooooo less mana. XD
oh, I missed this thread. I just created another one. whoops
I haven't had the chance of playing the new decks yet, but this is something that already happened to me with Exalted Deck.
MEGA-YAWN.  I've seen this thread appear countless times over the course of the three DOTP games ('09, '12 and '13).  

I thought three years ago people were getting frustrated by after having a few bad draws and were venting their rage here and I still think this is the case.  All of these claims are usually based on anecdotal stats and evidence (I refer you to the the ridiclous thread title above).  If you've got some stats (with evidence) I'd be willing to listen.

I played these decks all day yesterday, and duel and tri-colours decks over the last three years and not had the levels of problems you describe.  I get flodded/screwed now and again, sure, It's part of the game.

Bottom Line: Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Get over your bad draw and stop creating nonsense threads.

MEGA-YAWN.  I've seen this thread appear countless times over the course of the three DOTP games ('09, '12 and '13).  

I thought three years ago people were getting frustrated by after having a few bad draws and were venting their rage here and I still think this is the case.  All of these claims are usually based on anecdotal stats and evidence (I refer you to the the ridiclous thread title above).  If you've got some stats (with evidence) I'd be willing to listen.

I played these decks all day yesterday, and duel and tri-colours decks over the last three years and not had the levels of problems you describe.  I get flodded/screwed now and again, sure, It's part of the game.

Bottom Line: Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Get over your bad draw and stop creating nonsense threads.



100% This.
I have to agree that 4 out of 5 is a ridiculous claim. However i can see that uw, bw and gw can struggle due to dual colour and minimal/ no card draw our fixing. I played at least 50 matches yesterday using all 5 new decks and only got screwed a handful of times (outside of when i kept a greedy hand myself)

It would be interesting to see a video out you playing for an hour or so to see this shocking shuffler, my money would be on not mulling enough.
What I'm finding is not really mana drought being consistent, but what is happening very often is that using Evolving/Terramorphic gives you a much higher chance than should be normal of drawing more land than you'd expect.

For example, I just played a game where, due to Sun Titan, I was recurring an Evolving Wilds every turn.  Every turn I would fetch a land and draw one; the match ended with 20 of my 24 lands on the board and nothing else but my Sun Titan and an Invisible Stalker (it was against the Suntail Hawk encounter).  The odds of that should be... really insanely low.

Over the next dozen games, I tried this: I kept fetch lands in my hand and drew about what you'd expect.  But when I used fetch lands, I almost always drew much more land than you'd expect.

This is the opposite of how it should work.  A fetch land should actually slightly decrease your odds of drawing land, since it's removing one from your deck before your draw step.  Instead, it noticably increases your odds of drawing more land.

Again, this is what I've been saying all along, that it is something to do with the way the fetch lands, and the re-shuffling of the deck after using them, are coded.

I do not and never have experienced abnormal patterns like this in decks without the fetch lands.  I am not someone who has ever complained that mana flood/mana drought is a problem that's universal to the game; it's something that is an oddity of the way the shuffler responds to the use of fetch lands.  I haven't really noticed this with other mana fixing cards, such as Nature's Lore.

Speaking of which, I think it's pretty lazy or just odd that the Selesnya and Golgari decks don't have cards to fix mana like Cultivate (or how about a promo Harrow for Golgari, it fits that decks theme perfectly!)

Yavimayer elder and civic wayfinder would like a word with you and they fit the themes much better
Yavimayer elder and civic wayfinder would like a word with you and they fit the themes much better



I mean noncreature mana fixing, but you have a point nonetheless.

I think Drone is somewhat correct. While this is of cource anecdotal, I have suffered mana flood much more in the Golgari deck than any of the mono colored decks, despite most of those having 25 lands and the Golgari one having only 24. This might just be selective perception or something, but it seems a little excessive.

I've also experienced color screw, but that's probably just me not being used to a deck with really demanding color requirments. Hitting 1GG for an Elder into 1BBB for Grave Pact is in fact, impossible and not a good keep.
You actually have to look at the colour requirements in your deck not just the cmc. For that reason i don't run grave pact. I try to make most of the cheaper cards in my deck only need one of each colour, or mainly focused on one of the decks colours.
Since we're all using anectdotal evidence, I haven't had this issue at all.  I played some matches with a fully unlocked Rakdos, edited to how I want it for 1v1 which includes all 4 Evolving Wilds and I didn't see this issue.  I'm also not using any spell that I can think of that requires 2 black mana or 2 red mana.  I consistently drew Evolving Wilds but didn't draw any more or less land than I was expecting.
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Horrible mana issues when doing a mulligan here.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

All of these claims are usually based on anecdotal stats and evidence.  If you've got some stats (with evidence) I'd be willing to listen.

I played these decks all day yesterday, and duel and tri-colours decks over the last three years and not had the levels of problems you describe.

Get over your bad draw and stop creating nonsense threads.


Almost insane levels of hypocrisy.


100% This.


-100% this.

Both of you using your own anecdotal evidence to somehow rubbish others' anecdotal evidence? You're as bad as the people you attack. For shame. Where's your evidence? That's right, you have none either, so stop being massive hypocrites. Debate the reverse all you want, but don't try to shut down discussion as if you have anything aproaching the high ground.

(Anecdotally) I've played hundreds and hundreds of games of 2HG and not had any more of a distribution of mana screw than usual, but last night after the patch dropped, at least one of use suffered terrible mana droughts for every single game we played (about 8) with mono decks. Could be just a normal variance, but if a bunch of people are also suddenly reporting mana screws post-patch, then it isn't unreasonable to assume the shuffler may have been altered in the patch, and not necessarily for the better.

I'm not saying there is or there isn't, but i'm sure time will tell if there is. Neither hysteria nor hypocritical rubbishing is warranted until then. This is a forum. It's a place for people to report their experiences, which are largely anecdotal. Not agreeing or liking those points is fine, but telling them their threads are nonsense is a nonsense in itself.




Exactly this. I say 4/5 counting my opponent using a dlc deck as well.

I played a guy 6 straight times yesterday. We are both using new two colored decks.

First two games I get land screwed and lose.
Third game we both get land screwed ( we each have 2 mana of one color and go five straight turns where NOTHING HAPPENS).
Next two games he gets land screwed and I win.

I had three people back out on my last night early due to land issues turn 4 ish.
I beat one guy two strait games where he had 2 land turn 7 or so.

I also had about 5 other games with land issues myself and got rolled. I didn't play that long last night either.

I am also running 60 cards and 4 evolving wilds type cards in each deck.


Maybe I hit a really bad patch of games last night and it will work out in the long run but it was utterly ridiculous. So bad I plugged into the ps3 and played MW3 on dlc day. Quite sad.


You actually have to look at the colour requirements in your deck not just the cmc. For that reason i don't run grave pact. I try to make most of the cheaper cards in my deck only need one of each colour, or mainly focused on one of the decks colours.



with Rakdos, I'm at 11 mountains and 9 swamps, even though I have only 7 mono-red cards and 9 mono-black. Not mentioning, the red are all single , while 2 of the black are  and 1 is .

has anybody been able to get below 11 mountain 9 swamp? I'm sure it's possible if you remove all the mono-red, but it's clear this deck favours . I don't get why they've had trouble coming up with an algorithm to calculate the ratios...
All of these claims are usually based on anecdotal stats and evidence.  If you've got some stats (with evidence) I'd be willing to listen.

I played these decks all day yesterday, and duel and tri-colours decks over the last three years and not had the levels of problems you describe.

Get over your bad draw and stop creating nonsense threads.


Almost insane levels of hypocrisy.


100% This.


-100% this.

Both of you using your own anecdotal evidence to somehow rubbish others' anecdotal evidence? You're as bad as the people you attack. For shame. Where's your evidence? That's right, you have none either, so stop being massive hypocrites. Debate the reverse all you want, but don't try to shut down discussion as if you have anything aproaching the high ground.



On three occasions I mulliganned down to nothing and had to restart while unlocking.
On two occasions I lost a game strictly because of having the land in my opening hand and not drawing any more.
On one occasion I lost a game with superior board position because I got mana flooded.
On one occasion I lost to the Suntail hawks because of extreme mana drought (with GM).

My criteria for a playable hand has been minimum one of each land type plus something castable on turns 2 and 3. I've started a number of games with 2-3 mulligans, but I don't have actual numbers for that. The above are situations that have stood out as memorable.

I've won 32 games with Mindstorms (40/40 cards unlocked, +2 games testing a build).
I've won 18 games with Golgari (28/40 cards unlocked).
I've won 19 games with Aura Servents (29/40 unlocked).
I've won 9 games with Grinning Malice (19/40 unlocked).
I've won 21 games with Collective Might (31/40 unlocked).


7 situations stand out where I was mana screwed, 99 games won based on unlocks and my decks are nowhere near optimized (60-75ish cards because I don't go to deck manager every game. Under half my games are against encounters because they get boring after a while. All other games are vs. Archmage AI in regular campaign). I only run 2x Evolving Wilds while unlocking.

That's all the experience I have so far. I've been manascrewed +/- 6% of the games I've played (less, actually, since I've lost a few games just by losing games but we're not counting those). 
It's not even just the multi-colored decks, although it's most noticible with them. I just played a game with PK and kept a 2 land hand. I didn't draw a land for 12 turns! That is just rediculous! I mean I would have been happy with just one more land since everything in my hand cost 3 exept the monk which I had to discard eventually. But 12 turns without mana? It happens way too often in this game and although it does happen from time to time IRL, never this often and hardly ever that bad.
The shuffle in this game is not perfect, but come on guys getting mana screwed is part of the risk of playing a multi-colored deck.
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It's not even just the multi-colored decks, although it's most noticible with them. I just played a game with PK and kept a 2 land hand. I didn't draw a land for 12 turns! That is just rediculous! I mean I would have been happy with just one more land since everything in my hand cost 3 exept the monk which I had to discard eventually. But 12 turns without mana? It happens way too often in this game and although it does happen from time to time IRL, never this often and hardly ever that bad.



It doesn't happen this often in real life because hand shuffling is not random.
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I think the mana drought stuff is, and has been, over sensationalized a bit. It seems unless people are drawing exactly the perfect ratio of land they will get pissed and post here that the game is fundamentally flawed. Remember pre-expansion? Remember all the "I KEEP DRAWING LAND!" posts? Yea. Me too.

Remember when this was all discussed in past DotP games? Yea. Me too.

Guess what? It happens. It probably happens a little more here than in paper magic because in paper Magic people can disperse land throughout their deck before the shuffle, decreasing their chances of getting screwed. It happens to me in MTG:O too, but there it's tougher because you lose a card your first mulligan. I think what it comes down to is people too afraid to mulligan OR getting semi-chub going on their hand despite the fact they're only holding 2 copies of one type of land and all those awesome 3 drops require dual mana. It's harder to hold that hand than in a mono deck because despite the fact you've got pretty good chances that you'll draw at least one land before turn 3's main phase in multi-colored decks it could very well be the wrong land.

I don't really want to post anecdotal info, but of the games I've played I have been "mana screwed" once. I started a game with one Island and Mountain and a few 3 drops sorceries, including card draws. I didn't draw a land for 4 turns. That happens in any version of MTG. I still almost recovered after I hit land drop 3 and lost due to an instant speed saproling token coming into play my end step to a board of 2x that +1/+1 vigilence token enchantment and 2x Parallel Lives suddenly staring at 4x 3/3 vigilence tokens and a Loxodon Hierarch with my one blocker and 9 life points. Every opponent Iv'e played has been dual colored. None of them seemed mana screwed either getting at least one of each colored land by turn 3-4 and having 5-6+ lands by turn 7. Not bad. I've played like 7 games so that's 1/14, and I'm not even sure I'd count my game as "Mana screwed"- just my bad for holding a 2 mana hand with no 2 drops just cause I had one of each land.
I got mana screwed my first two games today and my opponent did during my third game. To top it off, I wrecking balled his only blue mana. I genuinely felt sorry and almost considered killing one of my own lands to lose a turn/land and attempt to even up the game.

All my mana isues are strictly coming from the ipad right now. As noted in another thread, I'm not touching the ps3 until I can buy the decks.

Another game my opening hand is 1 evolving wilds so I mulligan and I have 3 red and 3 black land and a blightning. I kept it and won that game....LOL

I would have ditched it without the blightning but considering he ditches two cards turn 3 and that evens things up a little I rolled with it...Plus I knew I'd have mana for the midgame...
It's either no mana at all or 10 mana in a row lol. Very funny... not.


I haven't noticed a significant difference in screw/flood since the patch, but I have noticed that the AI was definitely updated. Prioritised actions have changed. Before the patch, the AI would prioritise the destruction of Favorable Winds over Panoptic Mirror, or anything else, even if you had no creatures. Not anymore.


I've also noticed every time you draw a card by sacking Yavimaya Elder, the card you draw is always a land. I've sacked it 10+ times and gotten 3 land every single time.
Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

I've also noticed every time you draw a card by sacking Yavimaya Elder, the card you draw is always a land. I've sacked it 10+ times and gotten 3 land every single time.



This is happening to me as well.  I think it might be a legitimate bug, I'm going to test it out some more.

I find that if i am ever getting bad start hands to exit the game and reload it it resets the RNG generater this is pure speculation but i think on load up the game picks 1 deck at random and says" i am going to screw you into the ground" and ofc this is complete hogwash but hey tinfoil hat.
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The 5 new decks all only hav 20 mana in them if you have a 60 card deck so this means you can put more cards in them Hence, the addition of evolving wilds making it your option if you want to run 20-24 mana. THIS INCREASES YOUR CHANCE OF GETTING MANA PPL SO IF YOU TOOK THEM OUT THEN THATS YOUR PROBLEM
It's not even just the multi-colored decks, although it's most noticible with them. I just played a game with PK and kept a 2 land hand. I didn't draw a land for 12 turns! That is just rediculous! I mean I would have been happy with just one more land since everything in my hand cost 3 exept the monk which I had to discard eventually. But 12 turns without mana? It happens way too often in this game and although it does happen from time to time IRL, never this often and hardly ever that bad.



It doesn't happen this often in real life because hand shuffling is not random.



Did you think about that statement before you posted it? How can you say that hand shuffling is not random?

Your cards are stacked in no predetermined order. You pick up the stack of cards and you start shuffling them in what ever manner you prefer. You stop shuffling. The cards are now in a different order. How is that not random?
I haven't had the chance of playing the new decks yet, but this is something that already happened to me with Exalted Deck.




If you get your deck to 11/9 B/W with an evolving and a couple cathedrals you'll be OK. 12/8 and you're toast. Never start without 1 of each color. Just a recommendation. 
I think the mana drought stuff is, and has been, over sensationalized a bit. It seems unless people are drawing exactly the perfect ratio of land they will get pissed and post here that the game is fundamentally flawed. Remember pre-expansion? Remember all the "I KEEP DRAWING LAND!" posts? Yea. Me too.



Just no. This has a been a part of DotP with multicolored decks forever. I haven't really even played the expansion yet but I'm glad others are seeing this. It's the algorithm. Believe that.

I believe cards are weighted, and there's some logic in the randomizer, the same logic that helps the AI cheat and it affects PvP play.

I understand Random, and you can't convince me this isn't just bad coding. Is it game breaking, no. But it will keep the OP mono decks on top for sure.        

THE FUNNY THING, some people here are treating us as blind or dumb... Since maybe he doesn't believe that this is happening.. Then all people who don't get enough mana are supposed to be drunk or liars or can't understand what they see!A very good debate...  A lot of people saying we are facing this problem.. Then come 2 or 3 people ( mostly blinded lovers of MTG  so can't attack them by any way) they say it doesn't happen.. Then all the rest are wrong and he is right..lol
Mindstorm is not mana rich on draw but with the daggers its not much of a problem. Still a weak deck but fun to play. Needs bounce if not removal. No early assault. If you can get to mid or late game, it will be slow as heck, but you can win.
THE FUNNY THING, some people here are treating us as blind or dumb... Since maybe he doesn't believe that this is happening.. Then all people who don't get enough mana are supposed to be drunk or liars or can't understand what they see!A very good debate...  A lot of people saying we are facing this problem.. Then come 2 or 3 people ( mostly blinded lovers of MTG  so can't attack them by any way) they say it doesn't happen.. Then all the rest are wrong and he is right..lol


Ethnocentrism. Most who are unaware of the issue in all versions of the game, play the OP mono decks anyway and on occasion when they venture into one of the other decks, if they don't see it in one or two games they call BS. That's my best guess. It's simply unreasonable that anyone playing the multicolored decks consistently can't see the blatant algorithm issues.

I'm not saying it's game-breaking, it just is. Mindstorm has so much card draw it's not really an issue but those cards are also what makes the deck weak against most decks.

It's not even just the multi-colored decks, although it's most noticible with them. I just played a game with PK and kept a 2 land hand. I didn't draw a land for 12 turns! That is just rediculous! I mean I would have been happy with just one more land since everything in my hand cost 3 exept the monk which I had to discard eventually. But 12 turns without mana? It happens way too often in this game and although it does happen from time to time IRL, never this often and hardly ever that bad.



It doesn't happen this often in real life because hand shuffling is not random.



Did you think about that statement before you posted it? How can you say that hand shuffling is not random?

Your cards are stacked in no predetermined order. You pick up the stack of cards and you start shuffling them in what ever manner you prefer. You stop shuffling. The cards are now in a different order. How is that not random?


Because it's not. Just because you don't know the order of the cards doesn't mean the cards have been sufficiently randomized. You don't know the order of the cards in DotP either, so they must be random no?
It's not even just the multi-colored decks, although it's most noticible with them. I just played a game with PK and kept a 2 land hand. I didn't draw a land for 12 turns! That is just rediculous! I mean I would have been happy with just one more land since everything in my hand cost 3 exept the monk which I had to discard eventually. But 12 turns without mana? It happens way too often in this game and although it does happen from time to time IRL, never this often and hardly ever that bad.



It doesn't happen this often in real life because hand shuffling is not random.



Did you think about that statement before you posted it? How can you say that hand shuffling is not random?

Your cards are stacked in no predetermined order. You pick up the stack of cards and you start shuffling them in what ever manner you prefer. You stop shuffling. The cards are now in a different order. How is that not random?


Because it's not. Just because you don't know the order of the cards doesn't mean the cards have been sufficiently randomized. You don't know the order of the cards in DotP either, so they must be random no?

I think there's more going on with DotP's shuffler, whatever it is, than randomness. You know how many times I go in to a player match with a crappy hand, all mana except one of my Knights, low and behold if I play it, I'm going up against mono black or mono white with the right Knight.


We already know the logic to weight the cards and stack the deck/shuffle is in for the AI, is it completely out for PvP? We'll never know. I just know for multi-color decks, the randomizer is stacked against them, lol.
Well, I was just playing a bunch of Sepulchral Strength to unlock it. Played through most of the campaign and all the Expansion Revenge campaign. Two games, both against Chandra I got mana screwed:

First game, we were both stuck at 3 land until like, turn 7 or 8 (I had three swamps, so no fetching possible). She started getting land and I didn't. I died because of land-screw.

Second game, pretty much the same scenario except I had 2 swamps and a forest. Couple Yavimaya Elders in my hand, but no way to play them. I died.

You wouldn't believe how many starts I had with a Yavimaya Elder and either 2 Forests and a Swamp, or a Forest Swamp and Fetch-land.
Literally, almost all of them. Either handed to me, or after 1 or 2 Mulligans. So yeah, two out of over a dozen games (I unlocked the rest of the 12 cards and lost at least twice straight up, once to Nicol Bolas and once to Goblins).

So I guess my percentage is up to +/- 11% for that last string of games.
Well, I was just playing a bunch of Sepulchral Strength to unlock it. Played through most of the campaign and all the Expansion Revenge campaign. Two games, both against Chandra I got mana screwed:

First game, we were both stuck at 3 land until like, turn 7 or 8 (I had three swamps, so no fetching possible). She started getting land and I didn't. I died because of land-screw.

Second game, pretty much the same scenario except I had 2 swamps and a forest. Couple Yavimaya Elders in my hand, but no way to play them. I died.

You wouldn't believe how many starts I had with a Yavimaya Elder and either 2 Forests and a Swamp, or a Forest Swamp and Fetch-land.
Literally, almost all of them. Either handed to me, or after 1 or 2 Mulligans. So yeah, two out of over a dozen games (I unlocked the rest of the 12 cards and lost at least twice straight up, once to Nicol Bolas and once to Goblins).

So I guess my percentage is up to +/- 11% for that last string of games.




I just played my last game with Mindstorm for a while. Campaign actually against new Auras. Having struggled, I mulliganed once after first hand had 5 mountains, um, no. So second hand had one mountain, one island and two mana leak's. With a couple 4+ creatures. I figure, I'll control until 4 mana. I stop, the hexproof invisi guy, no mana. Stop the 2/3 flyer, no mana. They drop another flyer, no mana, they drop another creature, no mana. I quit.

Mindstorm has fun cards, and under the right conditions you can win, but Wizards just can't get this deck right. Either that or they find it OP when built right and nerf it to uselessness.    
Here is a quick few questions for everyone getting screwed. 

A. Are you running a lot of five to six mana cards? (7-8)

B.Are you running 60 to 61 cards?

C. Are you running all four evolving wilds/terramorphic expanses?



Personally I've been mana screwed one online game with the new decks since the expansion came out. i find 61 cards helps to lessen mana draw still. 


Keeping in all evolving wilds in a high end deck works wonders. 20 lands just doesn't cut it in most these decks. (Only one I see maybe not needing as many fixers is maybe CM.)


I undestand SS is probably the best deck to most people, I say even run three wilds/expanses there. yes it has ramp, but doesn"t that require 2 green? 


I guess all I'm saying is people are crying but most likely not even looking at there mana count. Think about it. You asked to make your own land count so they did so by putting those mana fixers in. I wonder how much people would really cry if they could edit the core mana count. 


TLDR, I have had maybe three games in the past two days I've not started with three mana and had a good curve the rest of the way. 
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
I've also noticed every time you draw a card by sacking Yavimaya Elder, the card you draw is always a land. I've sacked it 10+ times and gotten 3 land every single time.


I can now say I haven't always drawn land as my draw. The last two times I played it I got non-land cards. Guess it was just a hell of a coincidence.
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THE FUNNY THING, some people here are treating us as blind or dumb... Since maybe he doesn't believe that this is happening.. Then all people who don't get enough mana are supposed to be drunk or liars or can't understand what they see!A very good debate...  A lot of people saying we are facing this problem.. Then come 2 or 3 people ( mostly blinded lovers of MTG  so can't attack them by any way) they say it doesn't happen.. Then all the rest are wrong and he is right..lol


Ethnocentrism. Most who are unaware of the issue in all versions of the game, play the OP mono decks anyway and on occasion when they venture into one of the other decks, if they don't see it in one or two games they call BS. That's my best guess. It's simply unreasonable that anyone playing the multicolored decks consistently can't see the blatant algorithm issues.

I'm not saying it's game-breaking, it just is. Mindstorm has so much card draw it's not really an issue but those cards are also what makes the deck weak against most decks.





Sorry, I didn't realize AW and CW were considered "OP" pre-expansion, nor did I realize ED was "OP" or mono-colored. Those 3 decks shared around equal play with OD in my games with the next highest occurence being Jace.

Now I've been playing primarily Mindstorms followed by equal play between Aura Servants and SS. I have been playing OD a lot too just because it's so good against all the DLC decks. So yes, I usually mix one "OP" deck into my rotation but largely I play decks that are considered lower-mid tier. I don't really think there's a "low" tier in this game though- just a bunch of good decks with a sprinkling of a few very consistent, and therefore "OP" decks.

With that being said I have gotten more screwed with SS as I tend to draw nothing but swamps when all I really need is a forest, but hey, that happens in all decks. I don't think it's some major news or gamebreaking bug or anything though it's just the way the game works.

And to the comment about hand shuffling not being pre-determined- that's true but I can't imaging this shuffle is pre-determined either. Especially since you can re-shuffle with several cards. With paper though you absolutely CAN stack your deck before the shuffle. If I were to stack all lands one after the other and hand shuffled, I'm not perfect at shuffling and increase my odds of getting screwed through too much/too few land. You space it out so it's not entirely truly random.

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