Ways to splash out radiant damage?

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Specifically, ways for an Avenger to do so. I've been eyeing the Radiant Serpent Paragon Path later, and it has serious promise as a useful path for adding damage, it just requires a decent way to deal consistent splash damage fight in fight out to keep its extra damage bonus stacked up. What I had thought of was employing items and utility powers that added bits of splash damage to attacks, then using Nusemnee's Atonement to tag allies with the chipping damage and soak it in, thus providing considerable damage boosts. Any ideas on how to take this concept to fruition?
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
does painful oath only apply on damage rolls ?  I'm at work and can't check.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

IIRC it just applies on hit. The issue is that it only works on your Oath of Enmity target, and you might not be able to Oath your allies by the book.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
The only suggestions I can think of without being at my own computer are things that don't hit allies.  I'll take another look when I get home.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Hmm. Unfriendly AoEs (even, or perhaps especially, close bursts) with a Radiant Weapon ought to do it, no? You'll need to have an adjacent buddy, but if you need to, you can always just FBT it or something.

Not sure where these unfriendly close bursts are coming from, mind you, since neither Warden nor Avenger provide too many of them, but I'm just spitballing.

We have to be a Warden to get into Rainbow Servant Radiant Serpent, right? That's a bit unfortunate, since I could swear that there are some items that force you to treat allies as enemies, but I think they're all implements (the Anarusi Codex is the one I'm thinking of, but I think there's at least one other, no?). Maybe that's a way to turn friendly splash damage into unfriendly splash damage that you can then suck up with Atonement?
Yeah, being a Warden is mandatory. Hybrid, MC or straightclass doesn't matter, but Warden's a must.

Hmm...there might be something to using implements. Wouldn't be easy, of course, but there's a theme that deals damage as a minor action in an AoE right? That could be used to get Radiant Serpent going. I'd have to check the timing rules, but that might result in a bunch of damage...but then again, gaining your level (at minimum, because you won't overpower your resistance before tallying damage for the second ally) in radiant damage from 11 onwards is a hell of a thing to have access to.

As for the unfriendly boosts, I'm thinking they're gonna have to come from items. Isn't there any item that splashes out a pathetic bit of damage? If there is it could possibly be converted to Radiant, which would simplify things considerably. At most, this build is going to need three reliable Radiant Serpent triggers - that's enough for six turns of straight fighting if you renew right as the boost disappears, or an absolutely blistering nova turn if you blow all of them on the approach and then unleash.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
or an absolutely blistering nova turn if you blow all of them on the approach and then unleash.



Wouldn't multiple pings of Radiant Glow count as "same named game element" and not stack?
or an absolutely blistering nova turn if you blow all of them on the approach and then unleash.



Wouldn't multiple pings of Radiant Glow count as "same named game element" and not stack?



Extra damage always stacks with itself. Hence my interest in Radiant Serpent - it's not often that you find something that can stack without end if you do your job properly.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
This PP seems good for bladesingers O_o even if they aren't very... optimizable (Svendj?)

Bladespells are attacks, Dazzling Sunray is radiant (you can even admixture it for damage yourself if you need it because the radiant resistance) and if you can stack the feature with itself, well the nova can be pretty good with the ED radiant one. I can see a STR-INT build or INT-WIS with a 12 DEX.

Seems better than morninglord, and the feature kicks at 11.

If you can find an item or something to damage yourself with radiant damage that is not a bladespell, is even better.

Sorry for my off-topic, it just came to mind when I saw the PP. I didn't find splash damage sources

EDIT: Isn't Dragon Breath the best way to do radiant splash damage and/or damage yourself? (Radiant Breath feat)
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
Maybe holy water? (minor action ranged attack) You need to be undead or demon keyworded for it to work though.
This PP seems good for bladesingers O_o even if they aren't very... optimizable (Svendj?)

Bladespells are attacks, Dazzling Sunray is radiant (you can even admixture it for damage yourself if you need it because the radiant resistance) and if you can stack the feature with itself, well the nova can be pretty good with the ED radiant one. I can see a STR-INT build or INT-WIS with a 12 DEX.

This was my first thought, but Dazzling Sunray is also going to give you that -2 penalty to attacks.  It's not the same win/win effect as a Lightning Ring generator build.
Hmm. My first impulse was Lightning Ring + Crown of the Brilliant Sun, but it specifies "hitting an enemy," which we're failing to do in two ways. Is there anything similar out there?
This PP seems good for bladesingers O_o even if they aren't very... optimizable (Svendj?)

Bladespells are attacks, Dazzling Sunray is radiant (you can even admixture it for damage yourself if you need it because the radiant resistance) and if you can stack the feature with itself, well the nova can be pretty good with the ED radiant one. I can see a STR-INT build or INT-WIS with a 12 DEX.

This was my first thought, but Dazzling Sunray is also going to give you that -2 penalty to attacks.  It's not the same win/win effect as a Lightning Ring generator build.



Yes I forgot that
Still Dragon Breath with Hurl Breath and Radiant Breath make it area 2 with radiant and other damage type, so you can hit yourself and trigger the feature. And is a minor action :D
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
...Be a Hybrid Vampire and walk around naked in sunlight. Now you just have to figure out a way around that weakened (save ends)...
Seriously, a use for Vampire?
Seriously, a use for Vampire?



And not just a use, if we find a way to overcome Weakening, it's a pretty strong method for striking.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Seriously, a use for Vampire?



And not just a use, if we find a way to overcome Weakening, it's a pretty strong method for striking.



Fighter's Grit lets you ignore weakened for 2 turns for the cost of a minor action. Assassin's Eye does the same, but at a much higher level.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Enter the Crucible (Endurace 10) lets you ignore it for an encounter a day at the cost of a surge - but it also give R10all, which kinda defeats the object...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Martial Resolve + enough save bonuses to auto-save at the start of each turn?

Still weakened out of turn though....
Martial Resolve + enough save bonuses to auto-save at the start of each turn?



Is the sunlight when it weakens Vampires save ends?

Edit: Yes it is, so that would work.

The Avenger Bulwark of Defiance could help too.

+2[cube]+2[amulet of physical resolve]+2[resilient focus]+1[born of shadow+enshrouding candle]+1[Fragment of the Eleventh Rack]= +8 to all saves. 95% is good, but I'm sure someone can find an extra +1 from somewhere.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Adventures frequently take place away from sunlight. Does a glowstone trigger vampire vulnerability?
Adventures frequently take place away from sunlight. Does a glowstone trigger vampire vulnerability?



They do have radiant vulnerability, so probably. I just forget if, when you have resistance and vulnerability to the same damage type, they explicitly cancel out (so you no longer have either, or at least you no longer have the lesser), or if they just functionally cancel out. I don't like that standard action activation, but oh well.
If you have radiant vulnerability, you always have it.  Even if you get radiant resistance, you still have radiant vulnerability.  Just like you can give cold vulnerability to a creature with cold resistance/immunity and you would still get combat advantage with it if you have wintertouched.
Makes sense to me. However, vampire vulnerability is only 5, and the resist you get from Radiant Serpent is a minimum of 5, so we'll need some other way of getting through.
Makes sense to me. However, vampire vulnerability is only 5, and the resist you get from Radiant Serpent is a minimum of 5, so we'll need some other way of getting through.



If you can convert necrotic to radiant (wasn't there a way?) spellscarred vampires can deal necrotic to themselves so long as they can heal allies.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Makes sense to me. However, vampire vulnerability is only 5, and the resist you get from Radiant Serpent is a minimum of 5, so we'll need some other way of getting through.



If you can convert necrotic to radiant (wasn't there a way?) spellscarred vampires can deal necrotic to themselves so long as they can heal allies.



A Radiant Weapon will turn any damage done with it into radiant, but I have a hunch that what you've got in mind won't be using the [Weapon] keyword . . .

If you could target yourself with Oath of Enmity, Exposing Oath would work, but only for your attack powers. And I don't think that you can Oath yourself anyway.

Rod of Stolen Starlight works, but again, only for powers. Plus, it takes a minor action each time.

Crystalline Breastplate could be used to bump up our vulnerability a bit.
BIG DAMN UPDATE!

Never say CharOp can't work out things. As it turns out, there's a way to get yourself treated as a demon: the theme Demon Spawn. Quoting the level 1 feature of the theme:


Starting Feature
Your demonic heritage reveals itself in your flesh and in your wild temper. Horns pierce your brow, and your expression takes on a sinister cast, your thoughts turning to anger and violence. Darkness rules your heart, and it goads you to indulge your evil impulses and to lash out at anyone you can reach.
Benefit: Your origin becomes elemental. For the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin, you
are considered to be an elemental. You also gain the demon keyword and are considered to be a demon. You also gain the demonic frenzy power.


In other words...we can use holy water. It's on, baby.


EDIT: And for bonus points, the U6 allows you to OA your allies. Tag them with an accurate but harmless attack and use Nusemnee's Atonement to stack that damage, every single fight. Hell. ****ing. Yes.

Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Nice.  And some hilarious RP potential to boot.
Holy Water is a nice bonus, but I don't think we can rely on it. If we use at-level stuff (you know, the kind that can HIT us), it's going to be a significant cost, and we can't use Alchemist to defray the gold sink, because we have to be Demon Spawn. Also, we've still got pretty decent auto-scaling radiant resistance from Radiant Serpent, which we're going to have to overcome somehow. (As I mentioned, Crystalline Breastplate is an option, but it's expensive.)

So, I'm forced to assume that your "use Holy Water" strategy involves more than just "buy Holy Water, chuck at self." What am I missing?
Sundered Mountain, a lvl15 Monk Daily, gives potential to self-damage shenanigans.

Forgive the self-advertisement, but here's a link to the thread I made:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Holy Water is a nice bonus, but I don't think we can rely on it. If we use at-level stuff (you know, the kind that can HIT us), it's going to be a significant cost, and we can't use Alchemist to defray the gold sink, because we have to be Demon Spawn. Also, we've still got pretty decent auto-scaling radiant resistance from Radiant Serpent, which we're going to have to overcome somehow. (As I mentioned, Crystalline Breastplate is an option, but it's expensive.)

So, I'm forced to assume that your "use Holy Water" strategy involves more than just "buy Holy Water, chuck at self." What am I missing?



Can't you choose to be affected by an attack or effect?
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Holy Water is a nice bonus, but I don't think we can rely on it. If we use at-level stuff (you know, the kind that can HIT us), it's going to be a significant cost, and we can't use Alchemist to defray the gold sink, because we have to be Demon Spawn. Also, we've still got pretty decent auto-scaling radiant resistance from Radiant Serpent, which we're going to have to overcome somehow. (As I mentioned, Crystalline Breastplate is an option, but it's expensive.)

So, I'm forced to assume that your "use Holy Water" strategy involves more than just "buy Holy Water, chuck at self." What am I missing?



Can't you choose to be affected by an attack or effect?



I can't find a rules citation to that effect, no. In 3.5, you could voluntarily fail a saving throw if a spell offered one, but I don't think that's the case anymore. Most GMs I know will let you willingly grant CA against an effect that you want to hit you for some reason, representing you choosing not to actively defend yourself, but even that's not RAW.
Holy Water is a nice bonus, but I don't think we can rely on it. If we use at-level stuff (you know, the kind that can HIT us), it's going to be a significant cost, and we can't use Alchemist to defray the gold sink, because we have to be Demon Spawn. Also, we've still got pretty decent auto-scaling radiant resistance from Radiant Serpent, which we're going to have to overcome somehow. (As I mentioned, Crystalline Breastplate is an option, but it's expensive.)

So, I'm forced to assume that your "use Holy Water" strategy involves more than just "buy Holy Water, chuck at self." What am I missing?



Can't you choose to be affected by an attack or effect?

No.
Player:"I drink the holy water."
DM:"It misses you."

I could see this being lumped in with common sense things like closing your eyes to block line of sight.    But I suppose it's a bit of a slippery slope.
I don't see why it shouldn't miss you if you drink it. It was only blessed by the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath & Wells. What you need was a vial of water that was boiled by heat that was generated by the burning of a writ signed by both Popes.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein


Half-Elf Paladin/Warden/Radiant Serpent
Level 12
Str 20, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 20, Cha 11
Sensate Theme
Resist 6 radiant
+5 tHPs when damaged by divine challenge/sanction target
+6 tHPs when use encounter or daily attack power
1: Devout Protector Mighty Crusader Expertise
2: Mighty Challenge
8: Improved Defenses
10: Defender of the Wild
11: Versatile Master (Sun Strike)
11: Power of the Sun
12: Honored Foe
12: Silvery Glow


Paladin leads focus fire by painting targets with vulnerable 5 radiant via Sun Strike/Power of the Sun. Remainder of party is asked to favor true radiant (not Pervasive Light-enhanced) unfriendly area effects and to purposely catch the Paladin in the AoE.


Double profit. Focus-fire target takes 11 extra damage from each ally attack: 5 due to PotS vulnerability, plus 6 extra from each such ally attack because of Radiant Glow when the Paladin next comes up to bat.


Paladin uses the constant spamming of modest tHPs to defray the considerable damage inflicted by his own party.

Dang. So we're back to square 1 then - still need to find a way to hurt oneself to get the gravy train rolling. Any ideas, gents?
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I still think Atonement is the go-to path for on-demand self-damage. I'm just not sure how best to get convenient unfriendly radiant AoE attacks with the mix of classes you're requesting.
I still think Atonement is the go-to path for on-demand self-damage. I'm just not sure how best to get convenient unfriendly radiant AoE attacks with the mix of classes you're requesting.



Ooze Master and some sort of radiant converter and piercer, but the question is, how do you avoid killing yourself while trying? If you hit the whole party you'll end up pulverized by taking 1+15+30+45+60 damage. And that only gets you the starting attack - the key is finding a way to sustain it, kinda like how you keep a Battlecrazed weapon active by spamming Bloodfury Knives.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Why avenger? A rebreather is absolutely perfect for this: minor action, big burst, optimizable. Hybridizes with a range of classes (warden, cleric, blackguard/paladin, runepriest). Avenger doesn't really contribute anything toward optimizing this PP, so I'm kinda leaning toward "refluff" for this combo.
Particularly since you can do radiant breathing.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition