Killed a Beholder with Force Ladder!

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The title explains the glory of our big fight tonight. We proned it in a 3x3 30' deep) pit and I threw a force ladder overtop to keep it from getting out then we preceeded to lay flat on some steps and drop ranged basics on it until death!

What are some of your most inexplicable uses of otherwise mundane powers to bring down DnD juggernauts?!
It bears noting that this doesn't work.  The Force Ladder occupies no squares, thus it could not have inhibited the Beholder's movement.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
It bears noting that this doesn't work.  The Force Ladder occupies no squares, thus it could not have inhibited the Beholder's movement.



At first I was going to ask for an explanation, but then I noticed the keyword 'conjuration' on the power and decided to look it up in the glossary to confirm my suspicions. Good thing that Beholder was stupid.
I dont see how you achieved that. The text of the power reads :

"You conjure a ladder of arcane force in an unoccupied square within range. The ladder can be up to 8 squares tall and lasts until the end of the encounter. The ladder stands firmly, does not need to be attached to anything, and cannot be moved unless you permit it. Climbing the ladder requires a DC 10 Athletics check."

So the ladder only occupies one square and the size vary vertically not horizontally. Even if you put it flat on the ground (and I doubt you can since it specifically says it occupies one square), then it occupies 3 squares of the 9 squares (3x3) of the pit opening and the beholder can still attack from the pit or even squeeze to get out of the pit (assuming that beholder was huge in size). But I may be missing something there.
Yeah, kinda seems like it wouldn't work as the spell is stated. I've always allowed players to attempt to use powers in non-standard ways if they want, but they'll be making extra checks. In this case the beholder certainly can still attack, and can probably just squeeze past the ladder. Actually I'm pretty sure even if a conjuration has to be created in an unoccupied square that doesn't mean it TAKES UP the square, unless stated. In other words creatures can move through the conjured ladder's space. It isn't a material object, even though you can climb it.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
I agree with everyone above that the rules do not support what happened.

But...

It sounds like everyone had a good time, it sounded cool, and the visual is priceless. Don't do it again, but look back on this pic moment forever!
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Even assuming that force ladder worked like that (which it doesn't), why wasn't the beholder firing back with its eyes that can be used upwards?
Cheers Imruphel aka Scrivener of Doom
Even assuming that force ladder worked like that (which it doesn't), why wasn't the beholder firing back with its eyes that can be used upwards?

I gathered from the description that the entire party had cover, making the effectiveness of those bolts less than stellar.

"we preceeded to lay flat on some steps and drop ranged basics on it until death"
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I love how the OP asks:
What are some of your most inexplicable uses of otherwise mundane powers to bring down DnD juggernauts?!


And all everyone does is rant about how "Force Ladder" doesn't work like that.
I just find that telling regarding the game.

In a session a few months back the party had a power that conjured a pit. They knocked a stone golem into the pit and a wizard generated a wall of stone overtop the conjured pit. The pit spell expired soon after, so the golem was accelerated out of the vanishing pit into the wall of stone.
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I love how the OP asks:
What are some of your most inexplicable uses of otherwise mundane powers to bring down DnD juggernauts?!


And all everyone does is rant about how "Force Ladder" doesn't work like that.
I just find that telling regarding the game.


Was that part really neccesary?
I love how the OP asks:
What are some of your most inexplicable uses of otherwise mundane powers to bring down DnD juggernauts?!

And all everyone does is rant about how "Force Ladder" doesn't work like that.
I just find that telling regarding the game.


Was that part really neccesary?


Actually yes. 
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e. 
The OP wrote a brief bit about how he and his group did that with 4e and all everyone did was tell him that's not how the power was supposed to work.
I really wonder how much of the problems that led to 5e/Next have to do with the game and how much has to do with the players. Just food for thought.  


Okay, cool thing I did in my last 4e game. The DM was doing this kidnapping story since the first session, with one of the player's characters being hunted by the BBEG. While infiltrating their base for an expected exchange (the PC's sister for her) we used the disguise self martial practice to do a double bluff. We changed the another character to look like the PC (but in a bad disguise) and made PC look like the other character. Then my changeling also pretended to be the PC, so there were two characters that looked like the potential victim but neither were really her. 

It made my DM's head explode. 
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Updated Tue & Thur

 

Actually yes. 
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e.


I, and many people, have no problem being creative in 4e. Sounds like a problem with those people.

I really wonder how much of the problems that led to 5e/Next have to do with the game and how much has to do with the players. Just food for thought. 


The only "problem" was, Hasbro wants them to make more money, so they needed a new edition. Trying to incite an edition war won't prove anything.
And keep in mind this is the 4e GD forum, trying to prove a point for 5e is not relevant to the forum.

Anyway, to stay on topic, I didn't beat him like this(for reasons you'll see in a second), but I was able to pull a hilariously effective bluff against a god.

We pretty much had 2/3 MacGuffins to power a machine we needed to stop the god, said god had the third piece and was going to use it to power the machine for his own uses. The god was above level 30, we were level 10 by this point. We had a plan to steal the 3rd piece away from him, but we needed a distraction. My Changeling then shapeshifts...into the god himself.

He then explains to said god, that he(the CHangeling) was really a fragment of the god himself that he planted inside the party to help, then the god erased his own memory of the plan to ensure he wouldn't give away. I procced to rolla  20 on my Bluff, against the 1 on the god's Insight. My Bluff was high enough where it barely beat the god's Insight and he totally believed it.(You have to understand, this was a homebrew god who was channeling the power of pure Chaos, he said it sounded exactly like something he'd do).

This did fall flat when he noticed our pickpocketer stealing the piece from him, so I attacked him to distract him again...rolling a Nat 20, nailing him right in the face with an icicle. he of course got pissed and took a swing at those in front of him, rolling a Nat 1 to hit me.

The rest was fairly boring in comparison, the distraction agve is time to use the machine, buff ourselves up to his level(level 30), and beat the crap out him.
Actually yes. 
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e.


I, and many people, have no problem being creative in 4e. Sounds like a problem with those people.


But it wasn't a problem with "these people".  They were creative and the DM alowed something that was not technically allowed under the rules.  We shoulf all be applauding that.  They had fun.  They did something cool.  That's what this game should be about.

They're enjoying the edition we love.  We should be slapping them on the back and congratulating htem ona job well done.

But for some reason, we're sniping at them, telling them they are playing wrong, calling them uncreative.  The first three responses (and the fifth response) on this thread had nothing positive to say.  Only the fourth one -- after criticizing them for playing loose with the rules -- congratulated them on having fun.

And when The Jester appropriately pointed that out you jumped on him... and in the process made the insulting claim that the OP's group has trouble being creative!

What the hell is wrong with us?!  We're eating our own young.  I love 4e, but I hate what these forums and this fanbase has become.  It's embarrassing.  It's self-defeating.  And it's not the first time I've seen this sort of deplorable behavior. 
So, if the rules can be conveniently ignored whenever, what's the point of having them?

Sorry, creativity is fine, provided it's still a legal maneuver.  If the thing you're trying to do is physically incapable of performing the task you've put it to, that's not really creative.  Breaking the rules while being 'creative' is called cheating.  Unintentional in the OP's case, but illegal is illegal.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Rules Lawyering, sucking the fun out of D&D since 1974!

I play by the rules 99% of the time, they are the backbone of the game, but I believe the best part of a tabletop RPG is the freedom to deviate from the rules when the situation warrants it. This is what sets games like D&D apart from videogames.

Sometimes a DM sees the players having a bit of fun and just lets them go for it, bending or even breaking the rules. Let the players have their moment in the sun and feel like superheroes. Then you don't feel so bad about bringing the hammer down on the them the next time
when the situation warrants it.



This is the operative term.  If someone wants to tighten a screw, hitting it with a hammer isn't going to help.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
What the hell is wrong with us?!  We're eating our own young.  I love 4e, but I hate what these forums and this fanbase has become.  It's embarrassing.  It's self-defeating.  And it's not the first time I've seen this sort of deplorable behavior. 


Wow, chill out, I was just telling him he shouldn't come in here and insult 4e players on a 4e part of the baord to make a point for 5e.

And where am I insulting the OP? I'm saying if people are unable to be creative in 4th and are crying about it, it's their problem. I never said anything about the OP.
So, if the rules can be conveniently ignored whenever, what's the point of having them?


They are framework for play.  A framework that can be freely ignored whenever the group decides it would me more fun to ignore.  Because the game is about fun first and about following the rules because they are rules way farther down the line.

The attitude that creativity can only be congratulated if it is in the context of the rules rather than in the context of the story is a pernicious hateful condescending couterproductivepoisonous attitude that shold be killed with fire.
I think that's hilarious - I love it when goofy powers/creative uses win the day.


Of course, as a DM, I do the same thing.  You trap my beholder in a pit, that beholder starts remaking the encounter with 10' x 10' disintegration rays until it becomes a tunnel fight.   
I once had a level one wizard survive an encounter with a beholder (it should be noted that I did not defeat or kill it but simply incapacitated long enough to escape) by ambushing it with a wool blanket soaked in lamp oil.  Waited till it floated through the door, tossed the blanket over it and ignited.  The blanket turned into a melting, flaming mess and pinned it's eyestalks long enough for me to scramble from the room and hide down a deep dark hole.  Much relief and satisfaction even though I never killed it.
3.5 mod had an underground lake with a squid monster in it. Was supposed to be a tough battle. Cleric summoned a celestial Orca which killed the squid for us. We watched. And laughed. And took the treasure then the Orca finished it up and disappeared.


There was one encounter that was sort of a last-minute mop-up at the end of the mod. We got back through the secret door to find a bunch of shadows attacking. Cleric used Turn Undead. Well, we discovered something about the party member who had been posing as Shadar-Kai. The revenant in the party was pushed back and immobilized as well. (funny thing was that on the board, several people were commenting on how tough that encounter was).

Had an old illusionist who used to bribe guards with magic weapons. Of course, it was just an ordinary weapon with Nystal's Magic Aura cast on it.

Oh, and our cleric has found one of two ways to nerf the Avenger: dismiss the target of the Oath of Emnity. The other one was the quickling who ran out of the room, and out of the encounter.
That double bluff kidnapping story is pretty good! Smart players ;)

Last session I had the pleasure to witness the following move as DM: Foe to Frog. On a flying red dragon.  A 100-ft fall sucks when you've lost the fly trait.
Alright, here's a good one. In the Fey when we spot a house on fire with a Tiefling running from the site. Roll initiative and the Vryloka Rogue goes first, double moves to catch up with the Tiefling, then realizes she's a ranged striker and has ruined the wizard's plan to cast Web on him by being in the way. Minotaur Warden next runs to help the rogue, and the Eladrin Wizard decides he's going to Web them both anyway and take all the glory for saving everyone from the fire. He also gives the townspeople resistance to fire, but not himself. The Wizard teleports to the top floor where the people are and makes an arcane gate to the ground. My Halfling Storm Sorcerer makes a cyclone to choke half of the huge fire, flies to the top floor, fumbles on the landing and is allowed to fall through the arcane gate, so it's blocked.

The Rogue and Tiefling are still stuck in the web...

The Warden gets back and runs into the smokey first floor and up the stairs to save a kitty. The building starts to collapse on him, so he jumps through the second floor window all heroic style.

...Meanwhile, my sorcerer had just moved out of the way and failed to control more of the fire...

The Wizard prepares to put the people through the gate when, all of a sudden, the Warden falls through the gate on the ground and comes out on the third floor, yet again blocking the way out.

...Rogue and Tiefling still stuck in the Web...

Sorcerer puts out more fire and everybody comes out of the gate, including a very angry wizard who is half dead from fire damage.

Finally, everyone goes over to the Web on the ground to help the Rogue and question the Tiefling.

More of just a funny story, but I thought that the Wizard was a great tactician in this challenge.