I have always wondered..

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What would be the creature type and the mana cost of a 20/20 creature without abilities? Would people actually play the creature, and how exactly would they use it?
Vanilla 20/20? The only types I think that fit are Giant, Wurm and Beast. Maybe Elemental too.

Idk though, 20/20 without trample sounds silly, and I guess it'd cost like 8 CMC?

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I think most all custom designers have a 20/20 in at least one project of theirs. When I did it, it was an artifact creature. I configured the casting cost at a ratio of 1:1 w/ the power and toughness. Mine as trample and an alternative casting method, but most importantly it has a strong sense of flavor and belonging within the set. You shouldn't just do any random 20/20 it's got to have some great details to it.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)


Those are abilities.

12 or 6CCCC or 8CD or 5CDDE
Creature - Elemental or Beast or Eldrazi
20/20

It would be considered completely unplayable in constructed, maybe playable in limited.
I wouldn't configure the cost under 16. But really, the concept has a lot to do with it. Colored requirements don't account for squat either. You'd only apply a color heavy cost here to prevent it from falling into the hands of colors that have serious mana ramps. It wouldn't be valid to reduce the converted cost under these conditions due to amping the colored mana requirements. The CMC would still need to be very high, even if it was very color heavy.

I just posted the design as a graphic example and nothing else. Abilities or not, its better than nothing. Also, if I recall correctly, of all my designs, one of the largest vanilla creatures I've got is a Reaper (as in Grim Reaper). Banebringer, it's a 13/13 for ten mana. The only reason I didn't make it thirteen mana was because it falls within an acceptable range (between cost and P/T). Ten mana (very color heavy), caps right at 13/13 without any abilities. Anymore powerful and the cost would have gone up to thirteen.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

I wouldn't configure the cost under 16.

Twelve mana gets a Blightsteel and fifteen gets an Emmy.
9-to-12 for a 20/20 that can be murdered immediately or chump-blocked forever seems about right.

This is the closest I've come:
Consciousness Incarnate

Creature – Avatar (R)
0/0

As Consciousness Incarnate enters the battlefield, count the number of cards in your library. Consciousness Incarnate enters the battlefield tapped with that many +1/+1 counters on it.

"You would fight the sum total of all human knowledge, and still expect to win?"
–Philosopher Scepter, to Philosopher Haereticus

Presumably, the main use of a 20/20 creature would be Zombify, Fling.

Embrace imagination.

Lord of YMtC | Ten Rounds Contest Winner

Solphos – A fan set with a 'combo matters' theme

Fool's Gold – The second set of the Solphos block


Those are abilities.

12 or 6CCCC or 8CD or 5CDDE
Creature - Elemental or Beast or Eldrazi
20/20

It would be considered completely unplayable in constructed, maybe playable in limited.


Vanilla Eldrazi sounds kind of wrong, I'd expect them to at least have annihilator.

Also, Serra Avatar?

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I think most all custom designers have a 20/20 in at least one project of theirs. When I did it, it was an artifact creature. I configured the casting cost at a ratio of 1:1 w/ the power and toughness. Mine as trample and an alternative casting method, but most importantly it has a strong sense of flavor and belonging within the set. You shouldn't just do any random 20/20 it's got to have some great details to it.



I don't know, I never made a 20/20 creature. I did make a -21/-21 but I don't think that counts ( it was about 40 off).


As for the card, I would make it cost 9. It could be as low as 8 without being overpowered thanks to cards like Army of the Damned, but I hate how cheap that card was. a 26/26 trampler with shroud should cost more than 8. That's just rediculous. And flashback too?
Vanilla Eldrazi sounds kind of wrong, I'd expect them to at least have annihilator.

Subjectively odd, but objectively perfectly possible.

The question posed is a 20/20 vanilla.  Anything in the textbox that isn't in italics means it's not a vanilla.
I could easily see it at ten without any problems.

If I were pushing it, I would probably put it at . Extra greens only because big creatures are very green. I don't expect to see it there though, with Quilled Slagwurm and such.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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I don't think it can get under eigth mana. perhaps?


@mown: [c]Vorstclaw[/C] is better than your wurm 
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
If it were a rare I think would be reasonanble for a non-trampler. Compare to Terra Stomper and Wolfir Silverheart, the first is a 6cmc uncounterable trample 8/8, the second is a 12/12 spread across two bodies for 5.

The only real reason 20/20 is kind of scary is Fling and such shenanigans potential.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I don't think it can get under eigth mana. perhaps?

 



Army of the Damned is still better than a 20/20 vanilla.


Actually, I don't think it's printable regardless. No matter what the cost was, it would still be broken by any reanimating decks with fling in them.
I don't think it can get under eigth mana. perhaps?

 



Army of the Damned is still better than a 20/20 vanilla.


Actually, I don't think it's printable regardless. No matter what the cost was, it would still be broken by any reanimating decks with fling in them.


Well three cards combos is allowed to win the game on the spot.
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
Yeah, putting a very specific creature card into the graveyard and then returning that creature to play and then playing a very specific other card should allow you to win the game, and it's already possible to do that with already existing cards in many different ways, right?
Expensive vanilla 20/20s die to removal and get chumped all day. They are only good for Flinging. I think you could safely cost one at seven mana, but it would be a terribly designed card probably. I myself wouldn't even pay five mana for a 20/20.
I've recently developed a 20/20 that can potentially be a vanilla. It's an experiment to combine two of the Ravnica guilds into one card. I think it's fairly priced, but I could be mistaken...


Intriguing Specimen

Creature - Plant
Deathtouch, Trample
Intriguing Specimen gets -X/-X, where X is your life total.
Simplify (You may cast this spell for its simplify cost. If you do, it loses all abilities.)
“When allowed to grow naturally, this specimen is most intriguing. However, when the rate of maturity is increased, although still spectacular, it doesn’t develop properly” - Kel Varo, Simic Researcher
20/20


As for a straight printed 20/20 vanilla creature card. I could see it having a cmc range of 7-10 depending on the variations of colored mana and intensity of those colors. However, the cost is really irrelevant if it's only real use is to reanimate and fling.
As for the creature type, it depends on what you can justify flavorfully.

I never wondered about this exactly but I have been curious about whether it would be kosher to print a 6/6 vanilla at 4 CMC. I think, for Green, it would actually be fine. I mean think about all the other crazy creatures printed at 4 CMC: Restoration Angel, Chameleon Colosuss, or Hero of Bladehold, or any number of top tier 4-drops.