Playtester Profile with Dread Gazebo

Solid interview from someone with good credentials and a different perspective!

I'm updating the list of Trevor interviews...

The playtesters that have been chosen so far have been:

He knocked Combat Superiority! This invalidates all of his opinions, and I have to complain about this everywhere that I post regardless of the topic at hand!

Nah, kidding. That was interesting to read. I hadn't even thought about the absence of traps. I'd really like for Wizards to take an honest crack at traps, as well as disease and poison. Unlike 4th edition, set those up to be something commonplace and wieldy. Make 'em easy to adjudicate and implement (with EXP values).
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
Another solid interview from a respected playtester. I agree with him on the perceived redundancy of the class, specialty, background, theme type stuff.

i also think that 10th level would be a good target for classes to level up to, but I would rather see more playable classes at this point if I had to choose between the two.

Also interesting to see that he hopes that Feats go away.
Great interview and lots of good points and valid concerns!

Trevor is a good profiler so far Wink
He likes traps and thinks that lethality 'returned' with Next. His opinion is invalid.




I'm joking (somewhat) but I disagree with some of his views. Not that that is anything new or anything .
    
"I can't think of anything that I didn't like about next..." yeah... another PR job...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
What does "another PR job" mean to you, lokiare? 
"I can't think of anything that I didn't like about next..." yeah... another PR job...


Or it's a player whose individual preferences acutally happen to align with the game as presented in the playtest.  That can happen.  Given how 3e-ish the game feels at this point, I'd be surprised if it was a rare occurance.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

"I can't think of anything that I didn't like about next..." yeah... another PR job...


Or it's a player whose individual preferences acutally happen to align with the game as presented in the playtest.  That can happen.  Given how 3e-ish the game feels at this point, I'd be surprised if it was a rare occurance.



Well if it were just one or two interviews, then sure I might buy that, but every interview to date has been of the same nature, altogether they just look like PR pieces...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Well if it were just one or two interviews, then sure I might buy that, but every interview to date has been of the same nature, altogether they just look like PR pieces...


What makes them look like PR pieces?  And does that mean you're accusing the interviewees of being dishonest in response ot these questions?  The interviewees are all public personas with blogs and webcasts that you go check out yourself.  (I put the links in my second post on this thread.)  All the interviewees also offer critiques of the Next playtest.  It's getting very tiresome of you accusing everyone who doesn't deal with Wizards in the way you would want of being shills.
Well if it were just one or two interviews, then sure I might buy that, but every interview to date has been of the same nature, altogether they just look like PR pieces...


What makes them look like PR pieces?  And does that mean you're accusing the interviewees of being dishonest in response ot these questions?  The interviewees are all public personas with blogs and webcasts that you go check out yourself.  (I put the links in my second post on this thread.)  All the interviewees also offer critiques of the Next playtest.  It's getting very tiresome of you accusing everyone who doesn't deal with Wizards in the way you would want of being shills.



I think they might be kind of WoW'd by being featured in a WotC blog and might be holding back or something, but it doesn't really help us get an informed opinion of WotC or the testing process. In fact if the in house play testers can't really find anything to get upset about, then WotC will likely use their feedback to get a game that no one wants to buy.

Its kind of like the CEO that is surrounded by 'yes' people who's company sinks because no one told them they were doing horrible things.

WotC needs to get some 'no' people in there who will tell them when something is screwed up, so that we can have an actual good game...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I found the interview interest. I disagree with a few of the points, but I found it to be a good interview.


He knocked Combat Superiority! This invalidates all of his opinions, and I have to complain about this everywhere that I post regardless of the topic at hand!

Nah, kidding. That was interesting to read. I hadn't even thought about the absence of traps. I'd really like for Wizards to take an honest crack at traps, as well as disease and poison. Unlike 4th edition, set those up to be something commonplace and wieldy. Make 'em easy to adjudicate and implement (with EXP values).


I just could not let this comment ride.

4th edition used a similiar model to create traps that they used for monster; Monsters creation in 4th is a breeze and thus so is trap creation. The disease tracks were a little complex, but I think the format they used for tracking the state of a disease worked well to demonstrate disease progression.

Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of Random Stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke

Back to Product and General D&D Discussions -- because the mobile site is bad. (Fixed!)

it doesn't really help us get an informed opinion of WotC or the testing process.


It's not supposed to.  It's an interview of playtesters, not WotC.

In fact if the in house play testers can't really find anything to get upset about


What gave you the idea the people interviewed are "in house play testers"?  None of the interviewees work for Wizards. 
lokiare also often confuses "They didn't mention the things I don't like" with "Nothing they didn't like"

Of course, when interviewees say things like "There's plenty I don't like about the current playtest rules/packets" or "I didn't particularly care for the Caves adventure" or "There was also a feeling around the table that maybe the game was *too* bare bones" or "the rogue's options seem to be based on a nebulous concept of how often you should sneak attack, such that the choice seems less like an interesting creative choice and more like a painful tradeoff" or "the composition of the different character layers seem to be a bit redundant in places" or "I think the skill system still needs work" or "I am concerned that it may become too hard to "unbake" the baked-in mechanics" that is ignored because it doesn't fit into the narrative that "this is a PR job".

Sometimes I think lokiare won't be happy until one of the interviewees is outright rude to Trevor.  I can't think of anything else that couldn't be denigrated as a "PR job" in his mind.
Lokiare

Even though I have some serious criticisms of 5e, if interviewed, I'd try to be as positive as possible.  I don't expect someone to just go on a rant in the interview.  And plenty of those people have given some criticisms.  On the other hand, do I think they are choosing people who will interview well.

I also don't perceive 5e favors any edition.  Could it have been done differently?  Sure.  But 5e is one stab at it and not all possible approaches.

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

lokiare also often confuses "They didn't mention the things I don't like" with "Nothing they didn't like"

Of course, when interviewees say things like "There's plenty I don't like about the current playtest rules/packets" or "I didn't particularly care for the Caves adventure" or "There was also a feeling around the table that maybe the game was *too* bare bones" or "the rogue's options seem to be based on a nebulous concept of how often you should sneak attack, such that the choice seems less like an interesting creative choice and more like a painful tradeoff" or "the composition of the different character layers seem to be a bit redundant in places" or "I think the skill system still needs work" or "I am concerned that it may become too hard to "unbake" the baked-in mechanics" that is ignored because it doesn't fit into the narrative that "this is a PR job".

Sometimes I think lokiare won't be happy until one of the interviewees is outright rude to Trevor.  I can't think of anything else that couldn't be denigrated as a "PR job" in his mind.



Ah yes more personal insults. Don't assume you know what I mean or what I think because you are way off.

Yeah all of those quotes are from all of the different interviews and they are soft balled in. None of them have any bite to them. They all are expressed in a way that they are slightly distasteful but not deal breakers. In other words it appears that the interviewees are praising WotC...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You have no credibility complaining about personal attacks when you have spent weeks accusing me of being a shill for Wizards. And I did not personally attack you. I only spoke of how I interpret ypur statements. So put down the martyr cloak. It does not fit you.
Your statement is also remarkable in stating that anything less than threatening to quit the game -- "a dealbreaker" -- is "softball". That confirms my supposition to be correct: anything less than rudeness will be construed by you to be a "PR" job.
To be "fair", all of these interviews are Public Relations pieces... but I mean that without the negative connotation that is usually attached to the term "PR".

So when we take lokiare's statement at face value, he is correct... it is another "PR" job.
 
...but only the most rabidly paranoid conspiracy theorist could hold onto the delusion that these interviews should be a forum for some kind of anti-DDN manifesto.
To be "fair", all of these interviews are Public Relations pieces... but I mean that without the negative connotation that is usually attached to the term "PR".

So when we take lokiare's statement at face value, he is correct... it is another "PR" job.
 
...but only the most rabidly paranoid conspiracy theorist could hold onto the delusion that these interviews should be a forum for some kind of anti-DDN manifesto.

This is what I was thinking also.
well I personally know the guy and it's far less PR and more sucking up/being polite.  He loves dnd and is a pretty honest guy with good tastes in gaming.

At this point there is not a *whole lot you can do except fill out surveys, be polite, and be positive.  The game is still in its infancy and a lot will be changed.  A developer writes a 4 paragrapth concept article and the forums whine and cry like it's a finished product. 

Leave good ideas in these forums because dev's come here to find ideas and maybe they will use something if it sounds good. If you don't put it here politely and professionally then don't expect to see it outside your own brain. 
4th edition used a similiar model to create traps that they used for monster; Monsters creation in 4th is a breeze and thus so is trap creation. The disease tracks were a little complex, but I think the format they used for tracking the state of a disease worked well to demonstrate disease progression.

Obviously traps were good. I'm talking about diseases and poisons; I just think that traps could've been more common than they were. Poisons and diseases barely show up anywhere, and while they complicate the game the system doesn't tell you anything about how to change the challenges to account for them. I'd like for poisons and diseases to have EXP ratings, and to show up more often. And to be tied more often to broad, common natural phenomena (for instance, rolling on a common disease chart if you sleep in poor conditions like a slum or the wild without suitable preparations). They shouldn't be an afterthought.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
4th edition used a similiar model to create traps that they used for monster; Monsters creation in 4th is a breeze and thus so is trap creation. The disease tracks were a little complex, but I think the format they used for tracking the state of a disease worked well to demonstrate disease progression.

Obviously traps were good. I'm talking about diseases and poisons; I just think that traps could've been more common than they were. Poisons and diseases barely show up anywhere, and while they complicate the game the system doesn't tell you anything about how to change the challenges to account for them. I'd like for poisons and diseases to have EXP ratings, and to show up more often. And to be tied more often to broad, common natural phenomena (for instance, rolling on a common disease chart if you sleep in poor conditions like a slum or the wild without suitable preparations). They shouldn't be an afterthought.



There are more then 300 traps and approx 200 hazards so I think they have traps covered pretty well. The 4e DMG had 36 traps/hazards spread across 30 levels so there were slim pickings, but there were enough examples to craft your own if your so inclined. All that said, there can never have too many traps.

A standard trap/hazard are consider to have the value of a standard monster. This is detailed in chapter 4 of the DMG.  Treating all of these things the same way as monsters make it easier to put a encounter even when there are no monster in the encounter at all. I hope they continue to handle them the same for 5e.

I agree that additional information on how diseases get contracted is necessarily part of detailing a disease. 4e provided the mechanics for after disease were contracted, but the details of how someone would have gotten the disease was hit or miss depending on the disease.

I'm not sure how you mean 'after thought'; across all the available resources there are about 60+ disease available. However, There were only 7 disease in DMG1 so if you mean the lack of variety I can agree there should be plenty of traps, disease and poisons available in the 5e DMG1.

Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of Random Stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke

Back to Product and General D&D Discussions -- because the mobile site is bad. (Fixed!)

You have no credibility complaining about personal attacks when you have spent weeks accusing me of being a shill for Wizards. And I did not personally attack you. I only spoke of how I interpret ypur statements. So put down the martyr cloak. It does not fit you.



Nice straw man. I haven't accused you of being a shill for Wizards for weeks. I'm also not wearing a martyr cloak.

I made a couple of statements that I thought these interviews were PR pieces. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything else you attribute to me is on you.

Because you are one of the FAVORED I'll probably get a temp ban for arguing with you, but at this point I don't much care...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Your statement is also remarkable in stating that anything less than threatening to quit the game -- "a dealbreaker" -- is "softball". That confirms my supposition to be correct: anything less than rudeness will be construed by you to be a "PR" job.



See stating that you won't buy a game that has things in it you don't like is not being rude. Its a little thing I like to call honesty. I understand that some people are taught that its better to lie than to chance being rude, but thankfully I was never taught that...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You have no credibility complaining about personal attacks when you have spent weeks accusing me of being a shill for Wizards. And I did not personally attack you. I only spoke of how I interpret ypur statements. So put down the martyr cloak. It does not fit you.



Nice straw man. I haven't accused you of being a shill for Wizards for weeks.


You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

See stating that you won't buy a game that has things in it you don't like is not being rude.


I, and those who were in fact taught not to be rude, do.  With every post, you just confirm what I initially said. You may not see it, but that's really not my problem.
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.
...but only the most rabidly paranoid conspiracy theorist could hold onto the delusion that these interviews should be a forum for some kind of anti-DDN manifesto.



Wow, the fallacies are flying aren't they. Here's a list that the quoted part falls under:


  1. Appeal to Ridicule

  2. Reductio Ad Absurdum

  3. Appeal to Motive

I'm sure theres some character assassination in there somewhere too...

First I'm not against D&D. I'm against dishonest tactics to accomplish goals. PR pieces are just that. Trying to make something look good whether it is or not. To me that's dishonest and I don't deal with dishonest companies...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
See stating that you won't buy a game that has things in it you don't like is not being rude.


I, and those who were in fact taught not to be rude, do.  With every post, you just confirm what I initially said. You may not see it, but that's really not my problem.



Ok, then those of us with deal breakers should then be quiet and just not buy D&D instead of voicing our opinions and trying to make the game purchasable by many people...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.



They are picking people that have public blogs and write articles and that they have worked with before. They can look at how those people talk about WotC. Really its not rocket science Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...



Of course they are PR pieces; every public statement any company makes is a PR piece.

In my personal playtesting of 5e through the Caves of Chaos, it is very much looking to be far and away my favorite edition.  I really like the direction it is going and would be very happy to have it fleshed out in its current form and put on a shelf at my FLGS so I can buy it.

So I have an honest question for you, Lokiare.  How do you want me to perceive your posts and opinions here on the forum?
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.



They are picking people that have public blogs and write articles and that they have worked with before. They can look at how those people talk about WotC. Really its not rocket science


Or maybe they're picking people with public blogs because they know those blogs have an audience of D&D players.  An audience that likes the bloggers' ideas, making them representative of a chunk of the gaming community WotC is after.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...



Of course they are PR pieces; every public statement any company makes is a PR piece.

In my personal playtesting of 5e through the Caves of Chaos, it is very much looking to be far and away my favorite edition.  I really like the direction it is going and would be very happy to have it fleshed out in its current form and put on a shelf at my FLGS so I can buy it.

So I have an honest question for you, Lokiare.  How do you want me to perceive your posts and opinions here on the forum?



Well don't attribute my posts as being rude or antagonistic for starters. I almost never intend them to be that way. Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.



They are picking people that have public blogs and write articles and that they have worked with before. They can look at how those people talk about WotC. Really its not rocket science


Or maybe they're picking people with public blogs because they know those blogs have an audience of D&D players.  An audience that likes the bloggers' ideas, making them representative of a chunk of the gaming community WotC is after.



Or they could be following corporate protocols and procedure and picking people they know will give a glowing positive review of the game. Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.

Or maybe they're picking people with public blogs because they know those blogs have an audience of D&D players.  An audience that likes the bloggers' ideas, making them representative of a chunk of the gaming community WotC is after.



This what I thought they were doing.
Popular bloggers are often overlooked (mistakenly) as little more than internet-fodder. Some mainstream organizations see bloggers as total jokes. Many people have no idea just how many folks some of these bloggers reach with every post.

Is it PR work? Sure it is. Everything made public by a company is, for better or worse, PR work. Is it some kind of slanted, underhanded attempt at coloring the facts by picking people who WotC know will say exactly what they want when questioned (not that anyone made these specific claims, naturally, but hinting all around them is just as good)?  I really don't think so. My hope is that if Wrecan (or any of the others picked for this) had made some highly negative comments, they would've been posted right along with the positive ones. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I really think all WotC is trying to do is showcase through known personalities some of the advancements they're making with the newest edition of D&D.
You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.



They are picking people that have public blogs and write articles and that they have worked with before. They can look at how those people talk about WotC. Really its not rocket science


Or maybe they're picking people with public blogs because they know those blogs have an audience of D&D players.  An audience that likes the bloggers' ideas, making them representative of a chunk of the gaming community WotC is after.



Or they could be following corporate protocols and procedure and picking people they know will give a glowing positive review of the game.


Again, we come back to the part where you have to prove it.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't say I have particular dislike for you.  Likewise, I am often not in Wrecan's corner.  From my neutral vantage point, while you didn't say it, you did imply it.


I also note he said he hasn't accused me of it "in weeks".  As if it somehow makes it okay that he did accuse me of it only weeks ago.... and now merely implies it.



I never accused you of it and I sure didn't do it for weeks at a time. Look, these are clearly PR pieces, I don't see what everyone is getting all up in arms about. I'm stating a fact. By there very nature they are PR pieces and they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers. Its not a hard concept to understand and the proof is in my corner when you read the interviews...


You're going to have to back that statement up, that "they are choosing people to interview that are going to give them softball answers."  The only way they can know what answers will be given is to ask the questions.  If people have been questioned, but their interviews haven't been posted yet, they would be yelling it all over the forums.



They are picking people that have public blogs and write articles and that they have worked with before. They can look at how those people talk about WotC. Really its not rocket science


Or maybe they're picking people with public blogs because they know those blogs have an audience of D&D players.  An audience that likes the bloggers' ideas, making them representative of a chunk of the gaming community WotC is after.



Or they could be following corporate protocols and procedure and picking people they know will give a glowing positive review of the game.


Again, we come back to the part where you have to prove it.



Go back and read the interviews, that's all the proof I need. Wait for the next interview it will be exactly the same. Any negatives will be softballed in...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
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