Action points?

Im just wondering if the people would like too see action points return.

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I misspell words on purpose too draw out grammer nazis.

I don't have much use for them. If they are included in the game and are player character only legal cheats like they are in the eberron campaign I will not be a happy camper. 

As D&D next is to be modular and such rules are not included in the core, then why not. 
I like Action Point but they should be a modular option if they are implemented in D&DNext.
Right now, I don't see a need for them in the rules so far. 
I tink they worked fine in Eberron as an option.  I feel in 4e they were just another mechanic used to prolong one person's turn, leading to boredom and frustration as others awaited their turn in initiative.
As long as they're optional, I don't really care. The last thing I want is for the whole group to act twice before my boss has a chance to move. I hated this part in 4th edition. 5 characters burning 10 dailies in the first round is just too much nova. It makes the game way too swingy.
If they're optional, we probably won't use them. If they're not optional, we'll probably houserule them out. I haven't seen a good in-game explanation for their existence.

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I like Action Point but they should be a modular option if they are implemented in D&DNext.
Right now, I don't see a need for them in the rules so far. 



+1

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

I would like to see them return as class feature. It is a great mechanic and would be cool to serve as a mechanic for something like reflexes for a monk or somthing similar.

That being said I don't think it will happen and actions points will probably be in the game as an option. 
Don't know, it could be very versitile. But at the same time, I'm not sure if its necessary with the way DDN works.
Ant Farm

NOva potential has been in the game since I started playing in early 3e, and was probably there before. If you boss guys are just wandering into the midst of your players then yeah they're gonna get nuked in any edition.

That why bosses should aim for things like surprise rounds, starting from advantageous terrain, minion screens, and such. Also how is your whole party getting better initiative rolls than your boss guy?



That was of course a worst case scenario. But dailies for all + action points is still a lot of burst damage in a party of 5. A lot more than I was used to in the previous editions of D&D anyways.
Wow, you're group was pretty damn stupid. Have they never played final fantasy or watched DBZ?

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NOva potential has been in the game since I started playing in early 3e, and was probably there before. If you boss guys are just wandering into the midst of your players then yeah they're gonna get nuked in any edition.

That why bosses should aim for things like surprise rounds, starting from advantageous terrain, minion screens, and such. Also how is your whole party getting better initiative rolls than your boss guy?



You do realize that a whole lot of people don't enjoy playing that kind of game, right?
Im just wondering if the people would like too see action points return.



I would.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I didn't mind the inclusion of APs. If they carry over, that's fine. If they don't, that's fine, too.
Well, I was never much fan of the way they wroked in 4E. As someone has already mentiond havnig an extra full action can lead to some weird nova scenarios.

I also didn't like the way they were earned and spent. Earning them per milestone made it look like a reward you got for pressingon and keeping in the flow. But the fact that they reset to 1 and not 0 after a rest, and that you were limited to one per encounter, meant that your more or less always had them available.

All that said, both as a GM and as player I enjoy plot coupon mechanics. I think they can be a wonderful way of preventing narrative structure from being broken by wonky dice rolls, or for simply setting up really special situations. I much prefer to use plot coupon to set up those "one in a million" situations, than trying to force that into a general and more realistic mechanic, where the dice will cough up the "one in a million" right when it is least interesting to the story and the players.

But obviously plot coupons are not for everybody (or even for me all the time), so it is fairly obvious to make it a modular option. 
Yes, I would like to see them return but only as an add-on. I would like to see them explore more ideas for redeeming action points in terms of gaining back resources, healing, etc. rather than (just) simply focusing them on allowing characters to do more stuff in combat.
i think the turns in 5e are fast enough not to need them. i also think they'd add to much spike damage capability to a party. most monsters are going to be cake walks so they'd always end up saving the APs for elites or solos. this extra nova capability puts too much stress on elite and solo monster design without adding much to the PC's experience in return.
3rd edition I liked them as an idea from ebberon....

4th edition I played with them for years and many groups and players...

next edition I would not like to see them again....they contribute nothing to the game except for balance nightmares and time consuming.   
I kinda liked Actions Points - the gave the PCs more power to control the battle. 

But if they're gone - I wouldn't notice either.

I'd really like them to add a kind of "Fate Point" system though.  Maybe absorb what Actions Points could do into it.  
Some powers, magic item or special rewards could be like action points. For example points of virtue could be used to helps sacred gifts to fight unholy undead creatures or forces from infernal planes. 

Other would points of fame to be used only for social interaction.

But I don´t like the idea only getting action points for leveling ups. 

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One thing I would like to include is Fate Points.

Fate Points are things that you can spend to avert a major disaster - so if you die, you can burn one of your Fate Points so that instead of dying, you just get knocked unconscious. However it is a permanent burn, so not something to use lightly.

I also wouldn't mind a Fortune Point style system, where you can spend a Fortune Point to re-roll a skill check, attack or damage roll, saving throw, etc. You get those back every day.
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Action Points are the definition of an optional rules module. They're fun but shoudn't be mandatory. 

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As a general game mechanic - I'd rather not.  They don't add anything to the game that it needs. 

Maybe - since we know that the game 'changes' at 10th level, they might be a representation of the increased power of that higher level.  But we don't really know how the game changes at that level so speculation on that front is pointless.


But for the game as it is - preferably no.


On the other hand - as a specific class mechanic (such as the fighter's surge) - I don't object to it.  I just don't like it as a general mechanic available to all.


Carl
As a general game mechanic - I'd rather not.  They don't add anything to the game that it needs. 
  



I see them as a way to shake up the action to allow surges in the pacing, creating nova effects that arent just something a spell caster decided .. in other words a real boon for martial types and yes limiting them to those might be interesting.

 But as a module they cant be used as a balancing tool 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Very much agree with mboss and Baggesen. Additionally, I would like to somehow limit novas. Action points should get you out of trouble, not let you avoid getting into trouble in the first place.
Agree with pretty much every one, not too big on action points. Most of my players forget they have them to begin with, so I don't think we're gonna lose out on much by dropping them from the game and putting them as an option for some groups. 
Action points should get you out of trouble, not let you avoid getting into trouble in the first place.



I really like this frasing. I'm not sure it would cover everything, but like Medhianox' mention of Fate Points, I think any plot coupon system should be a way to save the day, not ruin the drama.

Like most people, I wouldn't want to use them but I'm fine with them as an optional rule.

Edit:  If they are mandatory or essential to balance, then it would be putting plot coupons into core which I'm against. 
As a general game mechanic - I'd rather not.  They don't add anything to the game that it needs. 

Maybe - since we know that the game 'changes' at 10th level, they might be a representation of the increased power of that higher level.  But we don't really know how the game changes at that level so speculation on that front is pointless.


But for the game as it is - preferably no.


On the other hand - as a specific class mechanic (such as the fighter's surge) - I don't object to it.  I just don't like it as a general mechanic available to all.


Carl


Exactly my point of view, but only if the fighter classes don't get extra attacks with their normal progression.
Otherwise it would be rather OP, IMHO. 

In 4e you could (generally) only use *one* power per round, thus making a single streamlined attack, and maybe another if you used an action point.

In 5e it is said you're going to get extra attacks as you gain more levels (free actions, probably), so having action points that give you a whole new action seems a little bit OP if the action includes again these extra attacks.

Also, the action point mechanic relied on encounters and I'd rather not have any encounter related mechanic in this edition: classes that rely on daily powers (like the spellcasters) could easily be left behind.

Personally, if I had to choose between having action points in the core rules and having it as an option, I'd prefer the second choice: leave Time Stop with its extra actions to the Wizard, in my opinion D&D shouldn't leave space to DragonBall Z-like scenes.

Adventurer1 - "Look, I've got extra power!"
Adventurer2 - "Me too! But only once per... period of time"
Adventurer1 - "Why is that? Well, let's take a short rest, I must replenish my... uh, energies"

Probably I'd accept having action points at Epic Levels, like 1 point/day every 5 levels over 21, and you actually get 2 rounds in a row.

Or probably I'd rule that you can only spend an action point to move again your speed, take an action (not including free actions that may depend on the action) or casting a single spell.
But you can see how this is going to bloat the rules and the round.

Mindstorming and ideas on how to tweak the Wizard class (hp, AC, class features):
[And so, you chose to be a wizard...]


Adventurer1 - "Look, I've got extra power!"
Adventurer2 - "Me too! But only once per... period of time"
Adventurer1 - "Why is that? Well, let's take a short rest, I must replenish my... uh, energies"




Short term fatigue is utterly realistic isnt it.. you exert your self rest a bit... imagine having 20 CS dice that recover when resting each round you dont use one and moves that sometimes take multiple to use.. 

Imagine spells that cause the environement to build up resistance to them so once cast you need a scene change or a small span of time for them to work elegantly

 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 


Short term fatigue is utterly realistic isnt it.. you exert your self rest a bit... imagine having 20 CS dice that recover when resting each round you dont use one and moves that sometimes take multiple to use.. 

Imagine spells that cause the environement to build up resistance to them so once cast you need a scene change or a small span of time for them to work elegantly



Sure, I've always called it fatigue, but in my experience the short rest/encounter recharging powers led to parties that are continuously resting, and this somehow diminishes the epicness of such "surges".

There's probably only class I'd love to see "resting" from time to time, and it's the Barbarian. I can see barbarians taking extra actions/attacks that burn (and put an end to) their rage, and then take short rests after that. 

But having parties that tend to *constantly* rest to recharge their action points somehow breaks the action/tension; I'd rather have powers that automatically recharge when rolling for initiative (which is basically the same).

Mindstorming and ideas on how to tweak the Wizard class (hp, AC, class features):
[And so, you chose to be a wizard...]

Taking a breath after every fight is normal you bandage and everybody gathera there wits utterly natural are you picturing people pulling out blankees? Sorry just cant grok you your thinking
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

problem is action points slow the game down.....

if used properly they could speed the game up without causing balance issues example:

Action Point:  Each character has an action point they can use for each encounter.  It gives you 1 move action.
 PLayers can use this to quickly start the first round of combat, or possibly save it to get out of a tight spot. Either way it is really fast.

Action points should never have given players a standard action. At least not without taking a class or race feature. 

In 5e it is said you're going to get extra attacks as you gain more levels (free actions, probably), so having action points that give you a whole new action seems a little bit OP if the action includes again these extra attacks.




When and where was it said that fighters would be getting more attacks as they gain levels?

(Aside from references to fighter's surges -which are the action point mechanic translated into a fighter class ability in the first place).

Carl
I would. Or at least something using the same concept. Maybe make them more limited and special?
Why not include something like an action point, but restrict it to letting you gain advantage on a check, re-roll a save (or force an attacker to re-roll against you), or a non-action in-combat healing surge effect?  That way, you don't have to deal with the whole "extra action that slows everything down" aspect, but you still get the arbitrary special bonuses you want. 

As a special bonus, it consolidates most of the features I dislike (action points, advantage, re-roll, and spontaneous healing) all in one, so it's really convenient for me to just ignore all of them together.

The metagame is not the game.


When and where was it said that fighters would be getting more attacks as they gain levels?

(Aside from references to fighter's surges -which are the action point mechanic translated into a fighter class ability in the first place).
Carl


Rule of the Three, IIRC, it also mentions the fact that high level clerics with War domain are going to have those extra attacks as well, in this way they'll be able to cast, and benefit from the extra attack.

Mindstorming and ideas on how to tweak the Wizard class (hp, AC, class features):
[And so, you chose to be a wizard...]

Make them an option and hide them in the DM's Guide behind large blood red letters "For DM Eyes Only!" 
I wouldnt mind not seeing action points at all.

If we are gonna have them, I would prefer them to be class specific and not an all encompassing feature.

As an example I could see aps as a daily mechanic for fighters, straining combos in skills or atacks they can do only so many times per day (kind of like knack for rogues) before fatigue reigns in. As an option it can allow fighters to nova as well.

I prefer them as a give one more attack mechanic/ or skill try rather than entering super mode or magic mode with duration and set modifiers.
I like them in concept; I like the idea that characters have an ace-in-the-hole that they can rip out when the situation calls for it - but I'm kind of lukewarm on the actual effect they had on gameplay in 4e. (I don't recall ever playing a long-term campaign where they were a feature in 3.5; if I did, it was so long ago and my memory of it is so hazy that I can't really comment.) As other people have mentioned, most people figure out pretty quicky that frontloading actions (frontloading impact in general) is really powerful (in any edition), and so Action Points serve as less of a last-ditch ace and more of something that groups learn that it's usually better to unleash in the first or second round of an important combat. Granted, there's ways to discourage that, but I don't really feel like tricking players into "wasting" action points on a regular basis.

The effect I'd want action points to have, regardless of their form, is for them to be something that characters grit up and pull out when it's clear that things are heading south, not something used to unleash holy fury in round one. I honestly have no idea how to do that; I guess closely examining the effects that an action point can grant might be one way. One unusual limitation might be that they might be something that characters can only use if they're bloodied (below half of their max HP); that makes them more of a desperation play than something you nearly always just want to lead off with. (I guess that you could intentionally enter combat bloodied? Who knows. Maybe they're something you use in reaction to being hit or affected by an enemy caster's spell or something.)
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Sure, I would like to see them return in Next.  I liked them, but I would also be fine with them being an optional module.  I wasn't really into earning them via milestones, though.  I preferred to grant them x times per session when a character did something tied to their story or motivation.

For example, if a character had three primary goals or principles, one of which was to be or become a master bargainer, one way they'd be able to earn an action point during a session would be to purchase something at a great, negotiated discount.  I can't remember where or in what form I first saw this idea, but I liked it.

Yes, I would like to see them return but only as an add-on. I would like to see them explore more ideas for redeeming action points in terms of gaining back resources, healing, etc. rather than (just) simply focusing them on allowing characters to do more stuff in combat.



It would definitely be nice to have more options...three tiers and all...and also for combat options to somehow not bog down play.