Leaving 4e

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CAUTION: If you don't want to hear a sad gamer rant turn away.

I'm going to state my tone so some don't get offended thinking I'm just raging: I'm not saying this in a hateful way, I'm actually very concerned (especially since I've seen more 3.5 games spring up, and more people bash 4e than ever before)  because I've just recently been getting thoughts about abandoning 4e and selling all my books.
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I've been playing 4e for sometime now. And the more I play it the more irritated I get by the rules. I understand the rules are just guidelines, but when they seem so wrong and broken its hard to forgive them. The amount of errata, and Essentials is enough to show just how bad WotC messed up. Pre-2010 modules and monsters are completely Broken and almost useless without DM intervention. Perhaps it's nostalgia, but I also can't seem to get over the feel of 4e either, it does indeed feel video game-ish, don't try to lie and cover for it, it does have that feel that it needed to attract and new audience in these days and times. Not to mention when I play it doesn't feel magical, it feels very plain. A awesome high level spell doesn't make me say "Wow that's awesome!" like it should. It just feels like (insert damage) + (insert damage type), which is fine for martial classes, but for a arcane, or divine class it just seems silly. 

I really like 4e, but like a I stated above the rules just become more and more obnoxious. I don't want to stop playing but I just can't take it anymore, I feel like 4e needs more adjustments to make it enjoyable than any other edition does. For 4e to be dangerous you have to use MM3, and Monster Vault monsters, or  save or die critters. Magic items also seems to be below par and too plentiful. Other than Wondrous items, I'm rarely ever excited to give or receive magic items. Every item seems roughly the same, a plus to a defense, and some power to be used, normally to cause damage. And while I'm still on the topic of magic things I want to talk about rituals, rituals seem like the most under developed thing in 4e, other than the absence of some much needed crunch. Rituals are very vague and few in number, their times and costs seem like to much most of the time. In my games rituals are rarely used because of the time they require and the normally overpriced material cost. There are other things I could go on about but I think you got my gist. 

This post was mainly for me to vent, I hope no one got too offended.  
Well I don't agree with the stuff you posted as problems.  Most of what you said doesn't match what I've seen and experienced.

In any case have a good time somewhere else, hope you find something that makes you happy.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

bye, it's been a pleasure knowing you on these boards all this time, hope you enjoy a game you like in the future

i disagree with everthing, but hey different strokes for different blokes

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

I felt that way about Acquire, so I get where you're coming from.

I disagree with just about every assessment you have made of 4e, but that's fine, too. I do hope you end up somewhere you can enjoy gaming.

Good luck!

Oh, and congratulations on 1000 posts, Noctaem!
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
CAUTION: If you don't want to hear a sad gamer rant turn away.

I'm going to state my tone so some don't get offended thinking I'm just raging: I'm not saying this in a hateful way, I'm actually very concerned (especially since I've seen more 3.5 games spring up, and more people bash 4e than ever before)  because I've just recently been getting thoughts about abandoning 4e and selling all my books.
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I've been playing 4e for sometime now. And the more I play it the more irritated I get by the rules. I understand the rules are just guidelines, but when they seem so wrong and broken its hard to forgive them. The amount of errata, and Essentials is enough to show just how bad WotC messed up. Pre-2010 modules and monsters are completely Broken and almost useless without DM intervention. Perhaps it's nostalgia, but I also can't seem to get over the feel of 4e either, it does indeed feel video game-ish, don't try to lie and cover for it...



Stopped reading right there. I hope you find a system that works for you.
I felt that way about Acquire, so I get where you're coming from.

I disagree with just about every assessment you have made of 4e, but that's fine, too. I do hope you end up somewhere you can enjoy gaming.

Good luck!

Oh, and congratulations on 1000 posts, Noctaem!



I'd like to thank my favorite D20 die, my friends and family for allowing me to nerd out at a gaming table for so many years.  I want to give a shout out to the people of these boards, it's been a long time coming and I just really feel like I need to give back to the community in more random posts of nonsense and sillyness.  I love all of you !!!! 

:D:P;D
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Edited.

Yeah I don't agree with much of that either. I do get irritated with 4e magic though. But other than that 4e is great to me.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Games I Play:

 

D&D 4e - D&D 3.0  - Pathfinder - AD&D 2e - Call of Cthulhu - Legend of the Five Rings - 13th Age - World of Darkness - PTU - D&D B/X

but I also can't seem to get over the feel of 4e either, it does indeed feel video game-ish, don't try to lie and cover for it


I won't lie. Because anyone who takes an "if you disagree with me you're obviously lying" attitude isn't worth discussing anything with, let alone lying about something. Particularly when I'd be "lying" if I disagree with them, and saying something that is not true if I agree.

Edited.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Why not just homebrew a campaign with your own monsters and own settings? If you don't like a certain mechanics, take it out or make it better. The game is about having fun, if you're not having fun that's bad. Rituals take too long? Whatever, shorten the casting time. Magic items don't have any "oomph?" Make a new one, give it oomph. Once you realize that you can change things to suit your table, the only real limiter on your fun is your imagination. If you don't like 4e, hey its not everyones cup of tea. But with the right adjustments, i think it could work for you as well. Happy Gaming!
My monday night wouldn't be half as cool if DnD didn't exist.
CAUTION: If you don't want to hear a sad gamer rant turn away.



Anyone who saw the threat tittle likely figured this would be the case.

 

I'm going to state my tone so some don't get offended thinking I'm just raging: I'm not saying this in a hateful way, I'm actually very concerned (especially since I've seen more 3.5 games spring up, and more people bash 4e than ever before)  because I've just recently been getting thoughts about abandoning 4e and selling all my books.




Hating on an older edition is cool. And all the haters of 4e now feel "vindicated". Tbh, WotC did a pretty terrible job handling 4e, alot of the goals and ideas were good, but  execution and maintenance of those goals wasn't so great. 


That being said, I  don't exactly see the point of this thread.


I've been playing 4e for sometime now. And the more I play it the more irritated I get by the rules. I understand the rules are just guidelines, but when they seem so wrong and broken its hard to forgive them. The amount of errata, and Essentials is enough to show just how bad WotC messed up. Pre-2010 modules and monsters are completely Broken and almost useless without DM intervention.



First, you do realize that 3.5 is evidence of how much errata and how bad WotC messed up? They pretty much went screw it and redid the whole thing. Then pathfinder was sold on fixing everyone WoTC STILL messed up.

The majority of monsters pre 2010 are not  broken no ruseless. Alittle low on damage maybe, but this only rears its head in higher levels for the most part. I ran all the way till level 20 with littler perceived issue, and most my custom monsters followed their basic guidelines.


A basic damage boost here and there, and alittle care taken to make solos, fixes the whole thing. Pre-2010 modules have been an utter blast from what i've seen with perhaps an exception of the Trollhaunt (too many trolls over and over).
   

Perhaps it's nostalgia, but I also can't seem to get over the feel of 4e either, it does indeed feel video game-ish, don't try to lie and cover for it, it does have that feel that it needed to attract and new audience in these days and times. Not to mention when I play it doesn't feel magical, it feels very plain. A awesome high level spell doesn't make me say "Wow that's awesome!" like it should. It just feels like (insert damage) + (insert damage type), which is fine for martial classes, but for a arcane, or divine class it just seems silly.



As a DM i dont have to go "wow every important enemy needs immunity to that". As a fighter I no longer look at a high level wizard and say "Why am i here again?"

Also, guess what edition has not one, but two Warcraft campaign seetings? 3.5! D&D always contains some aspects that resemble RPG video games. Why? because most RPG video games are loosely based or inspired by D&D. WoW even dedicated a patch for Gary Gygax, before 4e even came out.


Now was 4e designed to appeal more to gamers, sure. Maybe because thats what most 'nerds' are  doing these days. At the same time, I find myself increasingly bored with "spam attack" video games like earlier diablos, elder scrolls, etc. Which i find alot more similar to pre-4e. That doesnt make 4e less video gamey, the editions just resemble different games.


We'll have to agree to disagree to plainness.  

   
  

I really like 4e, but like a I stated above the rules just become more and more obnoxious. I don't want to stop playing but I just can't take it anymore, I feel like 4e needs more adjustments to make it enjoyable than any other edition does.


After all this, im not sure what you like tbh. But I will say once again, I will agree WotC did a pretty horrible job managing quality.


Magic items also seems to be below par and too plentiful. Other than Wondrous items, I'm rarely ever excited to give or receive magic items. Every item seems roughly the same, a plus to a defense, and some power to be used, normally to cause damage. And while I'm still on the topic of magic things I want to talk about rituals, rituals seem like the most under developed thing in 4e, other than the absence of some much needed crunch. Rituals are very vague and few in number, their times and costs seem like to much most of the time. In my games rituals are rarely used because of the time they require and the normally overpriced material cost.



I completely agree with you there.  That said, use inherent bonuses and make up your own stuff.
 

This post was mainly for me to vent, I hope no one got too offended.




Not offended, but your post is likely to get alot more negative feedback than mine.  
 I've removed content from this thread because Trolling/Baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.  
Hey guys,

I'll be locking this thread since it's not really going anywhere.

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Monica

Wizards of the Coast Online Community Coordinator

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