Elysian Fields, Resting Place of Heroes and Timeless Builds.

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Elysian Fields




"But for thyself, Menelaus, fostered of Zeus, it is not ordained that thou shouldst die and meet thy fate in horse-pasturing Argos, but to the Elysian plain and the bounds of the earth will the immortals convey thee, where dwells fair-haired Rhadamanthus, and where life is easiest for men. No snow is there, nor heavy storm, nor ever rain, but ever does Ocean send up blasts of the shrill-blowing West Wind that they may give cooling to men; for thou hast Helen to wife, and art in their eyes the husband of the daughter of Zeus."  --Homer, The Odyssey.


The Elysian fields, or Elysium, is where heroes and those virtuous enough to be judged worthy spend eternity.  This thread is a collection of builds that, through synergy of all the various components of a character, are considered by the Character Optimization community to be superior. 

Looking for a particular race, class, paragon path, or epic destiny?  Search (ctrl-f) for it, all the builds have that information now.



Requirements for admittance:



1. Be playable across all tiers.  If it's a standard xxxx build until 21, it's useless to most of the community. (11 is ok, you could start at 8 or 11 in LFR and with retraining could work it that way.)

2. Separate itself from the pack.  What makes it different from the legion of other Brutal Barrage Battleminds or enabling leaders?  Don't post your build here and discuss it, this will turn this thread into a horridly bloated train wreck of useless.  Post it in IT'S OWN THREAD, get it vetted, then post a link to THAT THREAD here.

3. RAW legal, with no houserules, assumed freebie feats, or grey areas in the rules (IE BCL by multiclass.  It may work by strictest RAW reading, but clearly wasn't intended and is a very good candidate for DM fiat).  This in includes item rarity rules for LFR, Gold values, etc.

4. No Theory Op.  Again playable at all levels.  Theory Op builds have their own threads and should be discussed there.  This is a home for practical builds, a place where someone unfamiliar to the game can come for inspiration and to find a playable build that doesn't require a 2 semester primer.

Legendary Defenders:


Set honour in one eye and death i' the other,
And I will look on both indifferently,
For let the gods so speed me as I love The name of honour more than I fear death.
-
-Brutus


Beowulf: Master of Grabs by Lordduskblade
Human Brawler Fighter/Kensei/Ceaseless Guardian
Show
All you need to know in the name.  Grabs an unfortunate monster and doesn't let go until he is ready.

Darth Vader: Swordmage|Defenderlock by AlphatheGreat
Human or Warforged Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight/Sage of Ages

Show
Massive marking ability, huge defenses, hefty attack penalties for team monster, and even shares some THP with the party.  Whats not to love?

Inexhaustible Dragon Sovereign by Litigation
Dragonborn Paladin/Questing Knight/Legendary Sovereign
Show
Defenses, mass marks, mass punishment, and a veritable cornucopia of survival tricks.  A defender's dream!

Gorgeous George: The Irresistible Defender by MC-Drowbane
Dwarf Earthstrength Warden/Breach Warden/Indomitable Champion

Show
Debillitating zones, a slew of useful forms, and so tough he eats iron golems for breakfast.  Add in some sefl healing and he may not be the BEST defender out there, that is more a function of the Warden class.

The Spartan by obtusehobbit
Human Fighter/Kensei/Ceaseless Guardian

Show
Utilizes the full control available to the fighter class to dictate the enemies position on the battlefield.

Achilles by langeweile
Goliath Battlemind/Son of Mercy/Reincarnate Champion

Show
A striker hidden in a defender.  Brutal damage and high mobility will ensure his foes will be run down and slaughtered in short order.

Mr. Smith by Lordduskblade
Warforged Fighter/Kensei/Ceaseless Guardian

Show
Every DM has nightmares of sticky fighters.  Sticky fighters have nightmares of him.  Defenses, mitigation, and high initiative to get into the thick of things to effectively remove a few key combatants from the field.

Grey Ioun Stone Marker by Mommy_was_an_Orc
Half-Elf Fighter|Battlemind/Daring Blade/Invincible Mind

Show
One of my personal favorites, this build leaves them with no good choice.  Between combat challenge, combat superiority, blurred step, a huge slide on an MBA, an II attack vs any unmarked fool that hits your party members, it's very ugly for the baddies, not to mention the fact that he can bring the pain with Brutal Barrage.

Thanatos: God of Death
by Rathyr
Revenant Brawler Fighter/Dreadnought/Undying Warrior

Show
Can you kill that which is already dead?  Not sure with this build.  In fact you can't do much to it that it can't ignore presently.

The Anointed Knight
by L33
Half-Elf/Knight/Anointed Champion/Ceaseless Guardian

Show
Accuracy penalties, damage penalties, slow, prone, and the ability to charm the pants off the BBEG, awesome use of the knight with Sonnlinors Hammer!

The Inescapable Fisherman
by SongNSilence
Mul Battlemind|Swordmage/Gladiator Champion/Destined Scion

Show
Wide area movement denial.  Brings you in, keeps you in, and laughs while you slowly whittle his HP down through his defenses and THP.  Can also function as a THP battery for allies if needed above and beyond the SM aegis.

Set Hammers to Stun
by Gelatinous Octahedron
Human Fighter|Paladin/Adroit Explorer/Reincarnate Champion

Show
Stun is the second best status effect behind dead, and no defender does it better.  Hell you've even got options if you want to dominate.

Safe Haven by billyh
Human Swordmage|Warlock/Sigil Carver/Sage of Ages




Many other ideas and builds here Ultimate Defenders

Exemplary Leaders:


erdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">To do great things is difficult; but to command great things is more difficult.erdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
--erdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Friedrich Nietzsche



erdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">


Master_of_Puppets:_A_LazylordBard by Dielzen
Tiefling, Bard|Warlord, Infernal Eye, War Master
Genasi Novalord
by Lordduskblade

Genasi Warlord/Battle Captain/Warmaster
Aeris by Nausicca
Kalashtar Cleric/Messenger of Peace/Saint
Stormbringer
by Lordduskblade

Dragonborn Warlord/Battlelord of Kord/Warmaster
Fuel  by Dielzen
Human Ardent|Bard/War Chanter/Indomitable Champion
Don't Come Around Here No More
Elf Shaman, Phrenic Master, Destined Scion

Show
Leader with almost a dual role of controller

Death's Gatekeeper
Revenant Ardent/Cleric, Zealous Demagogue, Topaz Crusader




Switch it up: Light, Thought, Gender, Chord, Kill, Political Party, Flame -- All of the Switches!
Victory though superior initiative, buffing, and enabling.

Killswitch: A "We Win" button for your party  by Auspex7
Human Artificer|Warlord/Spell Commander/Planeshaper
Chordswitch by Mommy_was_an_Orc
Half-Elf Ardent|Bard/War Chanter/Demiurge
Flameswitch by Cazzeo
Deva Shaman|Warlord/Flame of Hope/Soul of the World
Lightswitch by Nausicca
Deva Artificer|Cleric/Spell Commander/Chosen of Ioun
Mind/Thoughtswitch by Svendj and mellored
Psion|Warlord/Time Bender/Sage of Ages

The Controller, Action Denial Made Flesh:



As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.
--Vaarsuvius

An Illusion of Hope by Mommy_was_an_Orc
Deva Wizard|Invoker/Flame of Hope/Soul of the World
The Instinctive Summoner   by obtusehobbit
Dwarf Druid/Primal Summoner/Indomitable Champion
The Dominator by Cazzeo
Deva Malediction Invoker/Divine Oracle/Soul of the World
Harry Callahan by WEContact
Elf Seeker|Ranger/Sylvan Archer/Destined Scion
Show
An unconventional controller for anyone tired of spellcasters.

Headspin by Cazzeo
Human Cleric|Invoker/Divine Oracle/Destined Scion

Show
Daze and debuff for 4-5 rounds, which ends up being most of the fight.

Serra, the Gypsy Oracle by Noctaem
Tiefling Enchantment Mage MC Cleric/Divine Oracle Punisher of the Gods

Dissident Aggressors, A Collection of Strikers:


Blood will follow blood
Dying time is here
Damage Incorporated
--Pre-Suck Metallica

Barbarian Bruiser by Lordduskblade
Goliath Rageblood Barbarian/Kensei/Reincarnate Champion

The Most Annoying Rogue Ever by Phillip
Halfling Artful Dodger Rogue/Shadow Assassin/Destined Scion

The Time Bomb by Lordduskblade
Human Ranger/Adroit Explorer/Eternal Seeker

Damage, Inc by MC-Drownbane
Longtooth Shifter Ranger/Bloodfury Hunter/Eternal Seeker

Challenger by Auspex7
Githzerai Pursuit Avenger/Ardent Champion/Demigod

The Hurricane by Lordduskblade
Half Orc Ranger/Stormwarden/Destined Scion

The Trailblazer by Lordduskblade
Longtooth Shifter Ranger/Pathfinder/Destined Scion (mc BCL version)
Longtooth Shifter Ranger/Pathfinder/Eternal Seeker

Bookish Barbarian by Zelink
Genasi Barbarian|Swordmage/Avenger/Sword of Assault/Radiant One

Serene Killer by Mellored
Longtooth Shifter, Runepriest/Avenger, Hammer of Vengeance (PH3), Destined Scion

Rebreather by Matyr
Dragonborn Sorc/Ninefold Master/Avatar of Io (fighter or warlord MC to taste)

Armisael put together a great thread on multiattacking Barbarians over here Stand and Bang


.5 + .5 = >1  Piecing Together the Hybrid:


Only after the One is acted upon will it begin to penetrate through yin and yang. Without the two forces there cannot be the One.
--Chang Tsai

BLITZ!: SorcLord Alpha Burst Build by Auspex7
Human Warlord|Sorcerer/Adroit Explorer/Demigod

Buddy Jesus by Auspex7
Dwarf Invoker|Warlock/Astral Ascendant/Demigod

Sainted Justice by Kerrus
Tiefling Warlord|Paladin/Hospitaler/Saint

Battery: Circle of Destruction  by MC-Drowbane
Half-Orc Ranger|Warlord/Divine Oracle/Warmaster

Behind Her Blue Flame by Renzhe
Eladrin Warlock|Warlord/Flame of Hope/Warmaster
Reserved Banana Pancakes Awesome Stuff.

"Hello gamechanger"

Dirge for the Fallen: Outclassed or Obsoleted Builds:


"Death is but a door. Time is but a window. I'll be back."
--Vigo the Carpathian

Mora the Unkillable Avenger by mellored
A Lazy, Lazy Clever Commander by Adslahnit
Eladrin Warlord/Battle Captain -- Mark of Healing, built to 16.

Fair enough. Spelling all sorted now
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
This should be most interesting.

I wonder, do you think it would be worth the effort to make a division between fully-equipped ("here's the best full set of equipment"), minimally-equipped ("you need X weapon and Y ring for the main trick, but everything else is optional"), and item-agnostic (bare minimum weapon/armor/neck for the numbers, but nothing else) builds? Fully-equipped builds show off the full power of the build, item-agnostic are the easiest to adapt for personal use, and minimally-equipped builds are in the middle.

Note, of course, that I'm not suggesting one of each for each build listed. Just that we distinguish somehow which builds fall into which category. I feel like they all have their uses.
If builds are reliant on a paticular piece of equipment (frost sword, staff of the traveler) they should say so.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I would be in favor a brief synopsis of the build under each link, along with any important information.  Only comes online at 11/16/21/30, requires certain gear, etc.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
I would be in favor a brief synopsis of the build under each link, along with any important information.  Only comes online at 11/16/21/30, requires certain gear, etc.



Synopsis will be coming for each one brought from the old collection; I would ask that people submitting new builds for addition write one for the build and include:

Effective levels of play
If needed, the point when the pieces come together and the build comes online
Required items for the build to function

I'd put Chordswitch in there - Ardent|Bard who does some crazy stuff with granted attacks. Tailor made to take advantage of Sidhe Lord for 4 rounds per combat of +ridiculousness. Very functional throughout Heroic and really comes together at 11th.

Grey Ioun Stone Marker is spelled that way - refers to dead Ioun Stones from AD&D that swirl around your head and make you have more psionic strength, not Castle Greystone  
I'm going to have to go over each individually, but I don't believe a lot of those builds cut the mustard anymore. 

Namely, Barbarian Bruiser, the Puppeteer, and some others. While very nice builds, I don't see them as cream of the crop. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'm going to have to go over each individually, but I don't believe a lot of those builds cut the mustard anymore. 

Namely, Barbarian Bruiser, the Puppeteer, and some others. While very nice builds, I don't see them as cream of the crop. 

Most of the beginning of this thing is going to be weeding out the outdated/underperforming builds, or seeing if they can be updated with newer material.
I'd put Chordswitch in there - Ardent|Bard who does some crazy stuff with granted attacks. Tailor made to take advantage of Sidhe Lord for 4 rounds per combat of +ridiculousness. Very functional throughout Heroic and really comes together at 11th.

Grey Ioun Stone Marker is spelled that way - refers to dead Ioun Stones from AD&D that swirl around your head and make you have more psionic strength, not Castle Greystone  



I think most of the switch builds will end up in here, they are all pretty damned good builds, and different enough that they can be included separately.
What do I need to do to nominate one of my inventions for this thread?

Make a guide thread for it with lvl1, lvl11, lvl16, lvl21 and lvl30 along with a description of what it does and how it does it at each point in the progression?
What do I need to do to nominate one of my inventions for this thread?

Make a guide thread for it with lvl1, lvl11, lvl16, lvl21 and lvl30 along with a description of what it does and how it does it at each point in the progression?



Drop it on here and let us take a look at it, and provide the relevant details.
I don't have it written in guide form yet but I have a discussion thread with relevant information in it and I can write up a quick summary in here.

If there is interest, I'll write up a full build guide.

Here is the thread:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Relevant changes occur right up to the last page.

Basic summary:

Ranger | Rogue mc Cleric pp Tactical Warpriest ed Destined Scion
Sohei

Riposte Strike and Twin Strike at-wills

4 minor action attacks

Whatever enemy is adjacent to the character has no good choices.

On enemies turn:
If they shift, I punish with twin strike that slows and prones
If they move, I punish with twin strike that slows and prones
If they attack me, I punish with riposte strike
If they attack an ally adjacent to me, I punish with twin strike that slows and prones AND riposte strike
If they use an AoE that hits anyone, I punish with twin strike that slows and prones
If they use an AoE that hits me and anyone else, I punish with twin strike that slows and prones AND riposte strike

On my turn:
Riposte Strike
Minor action attack
Potentially free action attacks on crit

Enemies can't teleport away as I use a feyslaughter short sword in offhand.

Ranger dailies for nova purposes.

Solid defenses and good accuracy.

Very playable from level 1.  7 attack lvl1 nova.

Pairs great with defenders until 16 where it becomes a solo isolationist.

I can do a more thorough writeup if there is interest.
Its a nice build, but nothing Hall of Heroes worthy IMO
HoH builds need to be dominate, not just have a nice trick.  
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Let's see...

(epic only, heavy items)F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

(17)Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.

(team op?)Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.

(with cheese, could use alot of cleanup)Boominator Catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

(never tested this)Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Overpowered.

Void Defender Give a big penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Strong growing into broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

(theory-op)Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

(there might be better)Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

(heavy items)The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

(11, 16)Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken

Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams and being fairly tough. Strong to overpowered.

(team op?)Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight or Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Wasn't the point of HoH specifically to feature the best practical op builds?
I would also drop mora.  She's a bit outclassed now.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I would also drop mora.  She's a bit outclassed now.



Will drop Mora, lemme know which of those builds are practical mello :p

Wasn't the point of HoH specifically to feature the best practical op builds?

Yes.  But this is a new handbook.

and i always felt theroy op builds should have their place.  Since many tricks can be paried down to practical ones.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I would also drop mora.  She's a bit outclassed now.



Will drop Mora, lemme know which of those builds are practical mello :p

Define practical 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

They should have a different place. Jim Crow CharOp, seperate but equal.
They should have a different place. Jim Crow CharOp, seperate but equal.

Seperate handbook?  or just seperate section?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Seperate handbook, I think.

I also think that the ideal build for this thread is item and setting independent, exceptional at all tiers, and free of any objectionable rules interpretations (even if the interpretations are correct- the idea is that people who come here looking for builds can use any of them without getting nerfed by DM fiat, which can happen if you rely on a reading of the rules that looks munchkiny).

If I had my way they would also conform to my idea of good CharOp aesthetics, which is pretty subjective. I don't like builds that have powers they will never use, or that are not as fun for the party to play with as a more conventional build would be.
By the way, something to watch out for are items that weren't rare when the builds were published, but now are. Headband of Intellect, Ring of Endless Time, Opal Ring of Remembrance, Ring of Dragonborn Emperor, Stones of Reroll, and Shadow Band being the obvious offenders.
By the way, something to watch out for are items that weren't rare when the builds were published, but now are. Headband of Intellect, Ring of Endless Time, Opal Ring of Remembrance, Ring of Dragonborn Emperor, Stones of Reroll, and Shadow Band being the obvious offenders.



Good call MwaO, that might make LFR play tough if they were central to the build.
I would also drop mora.  She's a bit outclassed now.



Will drop Mora, lemme know which of those builds are practical mello :p

Define practical 




Grey rule areas, BCL mc swap, things a DM might call you on would knock it out.  I could put those in a special Player Beware section, perhaps in the banana pancakes reserve post.
Seperate handbook, I think.

I also think that the ideal build for this thread is item and setting independent, exceptional at all tiers, and free of any objectionable rules interpretations (even if the interpretations are correct- the idea is that people who come here looking for builds can use any of them without getting nerfed by DM fiat, which can happen if you rely on a reading of the rules that looks munchkiny).



+1. I think LFR is a good example of what ought to be possible.

You should be able to take a build from here into an LFR game and the objection from the DM is to please tone it down to a reasonable level. If you did advance the build straight to 11th, people wouldn't roll their eyes at how you managed to avoid Heroic. You wouldn't want to take 15 minutes to explain some intricate part of the mechanics of the build in order for the DM to okay it, because that's too long.

They should also be reasonably party independent as well. Some builds are awesome if they have an MBA expert in the party. But what if your party doesn't have an MBA expert?

And finally, they should avoid being actively detrimental to the party - unkillable characters often just mean the DM should focus fire on everyone else. If you're difficult to kill, there should be a reason that the enemy wants to attack you anyway.
Duly noted, will make a more epic build next time.  And here I thought I had one hell of a catch-22 that worked in all situations.
Seperate handbook, I think.

I also think that the ideal build for this thread is item and setting independent, exceptional at all tiers, and free of any objectionable rules interpretations (even if the interpretations are correct- the idea is that people who come here looking for builds can use any of them without getting nerfed by DM fiat, which can happen if you rely on a reading of the rules that looks munchkiny).



+1. I think LFR is a good example of what ought to be possible.

You should be able to take a build from here into an LFR game and the objection from the DM is to please tone it down to a reasonable level. If you did advance the build straight to 11th, people wouldn't roll their eyes at how you managed to avoid Heroic. You wouldn't want to take 15 minutes to explain some intricate part of the mechanics of the build in order for the DM to okay it, because that's too long.

They should also be reasonably party independent as well. Some builds are awesome if they have an MBA expert in the party. But what if your party doesn't have an MBA expert?

And finally, they should avoid being actively detrimental to the party - unkillable characters often just mean the DM should focus fire on everyone else. If you're difficult to kill, there should be a reason that the enemy wants to attack you anyway.



Permastealth for example.  Your surges and defenses are now mostly irrelevant to the party : /

Permastealth for example.  Your surges and defenses are now mostly irrelevant to the party : /


Comrade's Succor. Artificer. Surge powered mechanics of any kind. Defenses aren't quite irrelevant, but you can focus on them less. Honestly for the theoretical complaining about Permastealth builds, I've never run into the surge issue in an actual party that had one.

I have however seen a Rogue|Warlock/Ass get an SA powered OA off on every single monster in an encounter, which resulted in the Sorc killing them all by his second turn.
Permastealth for example.  Your surges and defenses are now mostly irrelevant to the party : /


Comrade's Succor. Artificer. Surge powered mechanics of any kind. Defenses aren't quite irrelevant, but you can focus on them less. Honestly for the theoretical complaining about Permastealth builds, I've never run into the surge issue in an actual party that had one.

I have however seen a Rogue|Warlock/Ass get an SA powered OA off on every single monster in an encounter, which resulted in the Sorc killing them all by his second turn.



Surges have never been the big problem. They're an aftereffect of the real issue - namely, the DM gets encouraged to focus fire on someone other than the Striker. Aka the Leader.
Seperate handbook, I think.

I also think that the ideal build for this thread is item and setting independent, exceptional at all tiers, and free of any objectionable rules interpretations (even if the interpretations are correct- the idea is that people who come here looking for builds can use any of them without getting nerfed by DM fiat, which can happen if you rely on a reading of the rules that looks munchkiny).

If I had my way they would also conform to my idea of good CharOp aesthetics, which is pretty subjective. I don't like builds that have powers they will never use, or that are not as fun for the party to play with as a more conventional build would be.


Hmm...I don't know that I can agree with all this. I guess it's Jugulator's call, but my vision of the thread would include TheoryOp builds (in a separate posts), and builds that start working at higher tiers (identified as such). Basically, to recognize and collect builds that are worth saving/sharing. There should be somewhere to keep those things, and as long as it's not mixed together, I don't see the problem.

I also think item/setting independence is nice, but not necessary. I agree about objectionable rules though. Here's my two nominees, and how I'd format them:

The Relentless Crusader (item independent, setting independent, level 1+) by ThatWasTotallyNinja

Wind-on-the-Mountain (level 21+) by ThatWasTotallyNinja

The second build is totally effective at all levels, but it becomes great after 21 (or maybe 16...), so that's the number I wrote.
Surges have never been the big problem. They're an aftereffect of the real issue - namely, the DM gets encouraged to focus fire on someone other than the Striker. Aka the Leader.

That is what defenders and controllers are for... O.o

Again, in actual play, with mean DMs (in some cases me, and I am not nice) it really doesn't matter. Caveat: The people I play with are not tactically retarded.
Does a build need to be statted out to level 30? If not, then I'd like to submit a recent creation, Flurry of Flame. It's a Satyr Desert Wind Monk who makes 8 Flurries per round. They all abuse fire vulnerability, so the damage actually exceeds 1 KPR. 

If it needs to go to 30, I'll do it in a separate thread if the community thinks it's interesting enough to be included here. 

Mind/Thoughtswitch by Svenj and mellored


Also, you spelled my name wrong ;)