the en-Core set ability

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Okay, so my title may be channelling MaRo a bit... anyway, would the en-Kor ability be good for a core set? Is it too complex?

Personally I say it's a great fit where Banding should be. It's hardly any more confusing than Looming Shade and he was there forever!
Thoughts? Ideas?
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It's very strange in that the cost is :0mana:. I'd prefer if it was a static ability of some sort, but then it wouldn't be able to target.

Do note that this ability creates huge combat math complications, so I don't think it has a possibility. It's also not really resonant.
This is definitely unacceptable at common under NWO, so it can hardly be a major mechanic.
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This is definitely unacceptable at common under NWO, so it can hardly be a major mechanic.



This.

Plus the mechanic itself isn't very deep.
What about as a one shot per core-set at uncommon? Like the shades. They always have one in the core sets.
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Not as an activated ability, but maybe "Whenever a source would deal damage to ~, you may redirect that damage to target creature you control", or something.
Replacement effects can't have targets.
Replacement effects can't have targets.


that's okay, he worded it as a trigger. it doesn't work as a trigger, of course, but still.

anyway, this can't be a core set mechanic as long as it is a targetted ability that costs nothing. it just gets in the way too much, design-wise. everything has to work in an environment where you can target it repeatedly for free. being able to do anything infinitely for free is dangerous. even just activating an ability. that said, a non-targetting version could be made. "If ~ would be dealt damage, you may instead distribute that damage among any number of creatures you control." 

 
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
This kind of damage redirection has fallen out of favor. The only post–Time Spiral card to redirect damage like this was M10's Harm's Way, and the interaction with planeswalkers was problematic and somewhat unintuitive.

The preferred model at the moment is "prevent and deal," as on Refraction Trap and Divine Deflection.

Del Laugel

Editing manager, Magic TCG

I have nothing to add except my appreciation for the triple entendre in the title.
This kind of damage redirection has fallen out of favor. The only post–Time Spiral card to redirect damage like this was M10's Harm's Way, and the interaction with planeswalkers was problematic and somewhat unintuitive.

The preferred model at the moment is "prevent and deal," as on Refraction Trap and Divine Deflection.


That's a bit unlucky considering the new deathtouch/lifelink/wither/infect damage technology.
Yes indeed. It's one of the most unfortunate consequences of the planeswalker redirection rule. 
Wow, I never noticed that they don't technically redirect damage!

I wonder if rules are changing and they would rather it be that way, because they are on instants, and it removes questions about damage's source.
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More like, as Del said, "true" redirection causes problems when it interacts with planeswalkers.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Bloody Plainswalkers mucking everything up.

So we'd more need...
Nomads and Kor
Creature -- Kor Nomad
: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to Nomads and Kor.  Nomads and Kor deals 1 damage to target creature that you control.
1/1

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One small change is needed for that wording.


Bloody Plainswalkers mucking everything up.

So we'd more need...
Nomads and Kor
Creature -- Kor Nomad
: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to Nomads and Kor.  If damage is prevented this way, Nomads and Kor deals 1 damage to target creature that you control.
1/1




Otherwise you could just shoot all your own creatures to death.
Rules Advisor
That still has the problem of having to scrupulously check the environment repeatedly to ensure that being able to activate an ability or target a creature an arbitrarily large number of times isn't at all useful. Because if it's even a tiny bit useful, it's broken.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

@Astarael: Are you saying that the ability is garbage or broken? It's an activated varrient of Banding... That's why it's damage redirection, because it gives you the chance to choose which members of the band take the hit.

@FezzHead: You are correct, I may edit my version to say it... and lol, I like my version, just because it's funny... It also works pretty well with Soul Link.
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@FezzHead: You are correct, I may edit my version to say it... and lol, I like my version, just because it's funny... It also works pretty well with Soul Link.



It's also an instant win with Stuffy Doll. :P

Rules Advisor
@Astarael: Are you saying that the ability is garbage or broken? It's an activated varrient of Banding... That's why it's damage redirection, because it gives you the chance to choose which members of the band take the hit.

I'm actually saying a bit more than that: I'm saying it has to be garbage, because being able to do anything an arbitrarily large number of times in Magic is very dangerous. Doubly so when it's as innocuous-seeming as that, because things that seem that innocuous are things that developers probably forget to check before releasing the subsequent year's sets.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

Couldn't it be written, "The first time en-Kor takes damage during a turn, you may reduce that damage by 1. If you reduced damage this way, en-Kor deals 1 damage to target creature you control." ? That way we can at least get rid of that trigger and reduce the confusion by a little. It still isn't quite intuitive, dealing damage to your own stuff and whatnot.
@Astarael7: I don't entirely agree.  These kids already exist and haven't broken any eternal formats, so a new version that has the exact same targets (meaning only your guys) doesn't break anything.  Only being able to damage something if the Kor is hurt also doesn't break anything.  Something I didn't consider until now (thanks for the help) is lifelink... So would a rewording of...

: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to Nomads and Kor.  The source of that damage instead deals 1 damage to target creature that you control.

It gets around lifelink shenanigans, but damages "when ~ deals combat damage" abilities... but at that case, we may be putting boots on an ooze.  It's closer to a white fight mechanic, while still being Banding in fewer words.

@Unfortunately: Not really.  The issue is the "first time" clause.  I'm going to guess that you know how banding works.  The en-Kor ability was Banding as an activated ability instead of a horribly wordy keyword.  Only moving one damage doesn't give the effect of banding.
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This is definitely unacceptable at common under NWO, so it can hardly be a major mechanic.



This.

Plus the mechanic itself isn't very deep.



Task Force + Doran, the Siege Tower.

And it breaks.
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