Why do 'veteran' players hate creatures?

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So there's been a couple topics on this forum lately (The Land Destruction one and the one about creatures as a focus are the ones that made me decide specifically to make this topic) about how Magic is worse now because of the growing trend of focusing on creatures rather than instants and sorceries. A large number of ostensibly intelligent players chime in saying that Magic is doomed (Or at least less fun and requires less skill) because it is being reduced to nothing but creature based decks.

And I have to wonder why? Why do people believe creatures to require less skill? What is it about instants and sorceries that makes them superior in terms of skill level?

Quite simply, it takes no more skill to cast Lightning Bolt than it does to cast Spark Elemental. I think a lot of players are letting the flavor blind them to actual game mechanics: In terms of actual gameplay, the physical act of playing a card requires the same amount of skill (IE: None) regardless of type. Simply being able to cast Mana Leak does not make you any more or less skilled than being able to cast Runeclaw Bear. Hopefully this point at least is inarguable. (Beyond nitpicky semantic complaints) 

So if the actual card type itself lends no extra skill, then it must come from gameplay itself. Here the argument begins revolving around the number of choices available. For this I figured I'd go back to the 'good old days' when creatures were allegedly unimportant by design. Where better to start than with Alpha? In Alpha, 29 cards included the words "target creature" and 10 (5 of which were Laces) included the words "target spell".

Immediately we can see that there were more options for interacting with creatures than there were for interacting with spells even in the first sets.

But there's another problem here: In standard right now there are 16 cards that include 'target spell' in their rules text (Compared to 301 with 'target creature') and all but one are blue. So if an instant & sorcery only deck came to exist, everybody would have to play decks that were at least partly blue to fight it.

More arguments later when I have time. Point being: I like starting topics I know will cause nothing but rational and friendly debate. I am sure I won't be called a 'scrub' or a 'noob' at all.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
They view the world through rose tinted glasses and so they believe that losing to a landlock Stasis deck or Nether Void was more fun than getting face stomped by a big fatty. Or even better, getting killed by the Cadaverous Bloom Mike Long special. That sort of thing.

It's pretty much nonsense. Creatures are a means to an end, no worse than sorceries, instants, enchantments or artifacts.

Cards are generally much more powerful these days. Even instants and sorceries are usually better. Only the top 0.5% of old cards are powerful enough to hold a candle to the cards nowadays.
Creatureless decks started out as a novelty. Later, they became viable. Now? Eternal formats they are still viable in, but not in Standard or Extended. But this is mostly a function of the card pool available.

I don't bemoan a greater emphasis on creatures, I just am disappointed that as time goes on there have been fewer and fewer new cards to consider using to update my old decks.

I'm not living in some crazy, half-imagined past. And I'm not about to tell people they're having fun the wrong way. Hell, I love playing land destruction and control decks. But I don't play them that often, because I know I'm in the minority. I know decks like that are tough to play against, and that most people I play against don't have contingencies for these things in their decks.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Creatureless decks started out as a novelty. Later, they became viable. Now? Eternal formats they are still viable in, but not in Standard or Extended. But this is mostly a function of the card pool available.

I don't bemoan a greater emphasis on creatures, I just am disappointed that as time goes on there have been fewer and fewer new cards to consider using to update my old decks.

I'm not living in some crazy, half-imagined past. And I'm not about to tell people they're having fun the wrong way. Hell, I love playing land destruction and control decks. But I don't play them that often, because I know I'm in the minority. I know decks like that are tough to play against, and that most people I play against don't have contingencies for these things in their decks.


I really wasn't targeting my rant at you, man. I know you are perfectly reasonable. Sorry if you took it that way.
I really wasn't targeting my rant at you, man. I know you are perfectly reasonable. Sorry if you took it that way.



I didn't think you were targeting me. Hell, the most recent thread on land destruction I've largely stayed out of, I said pretty much all I had to say in the last land destruction thread (which wasn't that long ago). And the thread asking about why the emphasis on creatures? I haven't even looked at it.

Be kind of silly of me to assume you were targeting me, wouldn't it?

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

 I don't hate creatures, nor do I think they require less skill. From almost day one my favorite deckstyle has been R/G aggro and I eagerly await this fall when I can brew up a Golgari deck filled with nice scavange critters and the LolTroll.

What I do dislike is how the recent strong push towards creatures seems to be having the effect of making most decks play out very similarly.

The appeal of Magic to me is how modular and flexible it is due to the massive cardpool. Decks like Seismic Swans or Ghost Dad that can upend conventions using clever interactions are great for the game. Heck, even take Manaless Dredge; it certainly shouldn't be allowed to dominate tournaments but the mere existence of that deck is a beautiful testament to innovative deckbuilding.

Now however, we are getting fewer and fewer of the non-creature tools that can be used to make out-of-the box decks like these. More spell effects are being stapled onto creatures, while cards like the new Dryad, Graffdiggers Cage and this new uncounterable cycle are potent hosers for every strategy other than creatures. This isn't bad on it's own, but as of late is forming a trend that appears to be reaching critical mass. Modern Development views the game as being Aggro, mid-range (but not slow card advantage mid-range, bigger aggro mid-range), ramp (totally counts as combo, right?), and disruptive aggro/control (which "typically...end the game with the very same threats midrange or ramp decks use").
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...g/daily/...

Those decks can be skill-testing and challenging, but the game's getting a bit too homogenous for my taste.
I had this discussion with a friend the other day. We came to the conclusion a lot of veteran players feel it takes more skill to win with decks that are light on creatures than full out aggro decks. "All you do is turn creatures sideways lulz!" This is really not true.

Combo decks are by far the easiest to play. You pretty much ignore your opponent until you are ready to go off. The two decisions you make are 1) can I go off now? and 2) is there any way my opponent can stop me? And generally only number 1 is relevant. The skill with a combo deck is building the deck not actually playing it.

With an aggro deck you have to decide: what creature to play right now, attempt to not over extend, bait counterspells and removal,  whether to cast a threat or removal, when to attack and when to hold off, decide what to attack if your opponent has a planeswalker, use combat tricks to force your opponent to make bad decisions in the attacking and blocking phase. Aggro decks tend to be easy to build in standard because you just throw in the best available creatures.

Then you have control: decide wether something is a real threat and counter it or cast removal on it, know when to play creatures so you don't end up tapped out and the opponent sneaks stuff under your counters, keep drawing cards. Control decks take a lot of skill to build because you must understand the metagame. With no grasp on the decks you will be facing you are just playing a deck with a bunch of counters instead of a matchup destroyer.

So in the end I think players get deckbuilding and playing confused. Combo and control decks take more skill to build than aggro decks. I think most people would agree in general with that statement. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but for the most part I think this is true.

In terms of actually playing combo is the easiest because you ignore your opponent until you are ready to win. Control is the second easiest with one big caveat, experience.

Control is easy to play but very difficult to master. Knowing when to play your spells and when to play threats is critical to success. That and understanding what is actually a threat and what is trash.

Aggro decks are similar to control by being easy to play but hard to master, but I feel they are actually the the hardest because they are presented with the most mechanical part of the game, creatures. The game is centered around creatures and combat, so by default many decisions are made each turn for an aggro deck. Aggro decks depend a lot on outsmarting a control player by baiting counters or being able to forcing them to remove a threat which really is that big of a deal. Against other aggro decks it comes down to who can force the opponent to make mistakes in the attacking phase. The use of instants and darned if you do darned if you don't situations is key to securing a victory. Also analyzing whether to use your removal at the cost of playing a threat is a huge decision that can make or break a game.
True post count: 9,900 Thanks Wotc for not counting archived posts. If I post without capital letters than means I'm posting from my phone. For some reason it hates typing capital letters. Go_Texans on MTGO. Texans 12-4 Wildcard: W Texans 19 Bengals 13 Divisional: L Texans 28 Patriots 41 Another awesome season!
TL;DR= creatures are cool with me, but are dumbing down the game due to new lazy players.

personally as someone who started back in late '93 i enjoy creatures, thats what won games back then aside from channel/fireball, it was this way until legends came out with all its wacky powerful enchants and spells, but mainly enchants, nether void, abyss, all hallows eve,chains of metaphistales(the card that helped restrict balance).

my beef is that everything creature has gotten more silly powerful for cheaper while non-creatures power have stayed static with the exception of ever raising casting costs. i think one of the problems older players have with this is we remember when you sat at a table for a tournament you had to be prepared to face a much more diverse and challenging field of opponents where your creature kill maindeck might be dead cards, or you might not run any creature kill and you get spun by a big fattie. you just never knew you had to think ahead and prepare for many possibilities(hence the creation of the sideboard, they werent always legal). now days you can main deck creature kill in every deck and know it will get some use. every deck now has to have some sort of creature in it, whether it is performing the function of what used to be an enchantment, or artifact, or if they just took an older spell ability and put it on a new creature. if you want interaction between your cards in standard deck you better have creatures in it.

to me it is the newer player base of little bastards that were raised getting trophies just for showing up that has led to this state. the game isnt any harder from when i was a teenager people aren't any less intelligent(debatable) but the fact the newest generation doesnt actually like to have to put serious thought or time into something to figure out how to make it useful. they would much rather have something tongue and cheek spoonfed to them with neon lights that says this creature and this card wins game. most of them wouldn't have the patients to try and figure out how to shutdown hardcore combo/LD without building decks to specifically to hose them or to build their own deck without hitting up every mtg forum/lab to have someone else build their deck this is why all the top decks are variations of the same theme in each standard rotation.

Magic the Drinking Game rules
here are the rules for MtDG: 1.at the beginning of each players turn that player takes a drink. 2.whenever a permanent you control is placed in a graveyard from play, drink. 3. whenever a spell you play is countered, drink. if the countered spells caster attempts to counter the counter, the loser of the counter battle must drink for a number of seconds for each counterspell that went on the stack. 4. whenever a player "loses life" that player must drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life lost. (a) if a player would gain life, that player may make another player drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life gained. 5. if a player puts a card from their library into their graveyard that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to the number of cards placed in graveyard. 6.if a player would discard a card that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to cards discarded. 7. on any coinflip the loser must drink. 8. at the end of each game all players must finish their drink. 9. loser must fetch all drinks/refills for the next game. if playing multiplayer use a**hole heirarchy(president,vp,secretary,treasurer,a**hole) 10. a player who wins 3 consecutive matches may add a "world effect" that affects all players and can not be removed without winning 3 consecutive matches and negating effect. multiple effects stack i.e if person wins 3 games then wins another 3 games both effects that player created stack. 11. ALL cards are legal, including ante cards.
 
Modern EldraziTron
[deck]

2x all is dust
1x blightsteel colossus
4x blinkmoth nexus
4x chromatic sphere
4x chromatic star
4x eldrazi conscription
1x emrakul, the aeons torn
4x expedition map
1x eye of ugin
4x inkmoth nexus
3x karn, liberated
1x kozilek, butcher of truth
2x mana confluence
2x oblivion stone
4x proteus staff
4x relic of progenitus
1x ulamog, the infinite gyre
4x urza's mine
4x urza's power plant
4x urza's tower
2x wurmcoil engine

[/deck]

I had this discussion with a friend the other day. We came to the conclusion a lot of veteran players feel it takes more skill to win with decks that are light on creatures than full out aggro decks. "All you do is turn creatures sideways lulz!" This is really not true.

Combo decks are by far the easiest to play. You pretty much ignore your opponent until you are ready to go off. The two decisions you make are 1) can I go off now? and 2) is there any way my opponent can stop me? And generally only number 1 is relevant. The skill with a combo deck is building the deck not actually playing it.

With an aggro deck you have to decide: what creature to play right now, attempt to not over extend, bait counterspells and removal,  whether to cast a threat or removal, when to attack and when to hold off, decide what to attack if your opponent has a planeswalker, use combat tricks to force your opponent to make bad decisions in the attacking and blocking phase. Aggro decks tend to be easy to build in standard because you just throw in the best available creatures.

Then you have control: decide wether something is a real threat and counter it or cast removal on it, know when to play creatures so you don't end up tapped out and the opponent sneaks stuff under your counters, keep drawing cards. Control decks take a lot of skill to build because you must understand the metagame. With no grasp on the decks you will be facing you are just playing a deck with a bunch of counters instead of a matchup destroyer.

So in the end I think players get deckbuilding and playing confused. Combo and control decks take more skill to build than aggro decks. I think most people would agree in general with that statement. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but for the most part I think this is true.

In terms of actually playing combo is the easiest because you ignore your opponent until you are ready to win. Control is the second easiest with one big caveat, experience.

Control is easy to play but very difficult to master. Knowing when to play your spells and when to play threats is critical to success. That and understanding what is actually a threat and what is trash.

Aggro decks are similar to control by being easy to play but hard to master, but I feel they are actually the the hardest because they are presented with the most mechanical part of the game, creatures. The game is centered around creatures and combat, so by default many decisions are made each turn for an aggro deck. Aggro decks depend a lot on outsmarting a control player by baiting counters or being able to forcing them to remove a threat which really is that big of a deal. Against other aggro decks it comes down to who can force the opponent to make mistakes in the attacking phase. The use of instants and darned if you do darned if you don't situations is key to securing a victory. Also analyzing whether to use your removal at the cost of playing a threat is a huge decision that can make or break a game.

well said! i thnik decks that just follow their own plan without minding the opponent are very one-sided and there isnt much fun for any player in a match like this.

even if you take a look at the most popular and hated deck right now, delver/snapcaster, you see that creature-driven decks tend to react to every turn the game takes and they require a lot of skill to play well. i like the creature focus more than old and cheap one-turn-combo decks.
TL;DR= creatures are cool with me, but are dumbing down the game due to new lazy players.

personally as someone who started back in late '93 i enjoy creatures, thats what won games back then aside from channel/fireball, it was this way until legends came out with all its wacky powerful enchants and spells, but mainly enchants, nether void, abyss, all hallows eve,chains of metaphistales(the card that helped restrict balance).

my beef is that everything creature has gotten more silly powerful for cheaper while non-creatures power have stayed static with the exception of ever raising casting costs. i think one of the problems older players have with this is we remember when you sat at a table for a tournament you had to be prepared to face a much more diverse and challenging field of opponents where your creature kill maindeck might be dead cards, or you might not run any creature kill and you get spun by a big fattie. you just never knew you had to think ahead and prepare for many possibilities(hence the creation of the sideboard, they werent always legal). now days you can main deck creature kill in every deck and know it will get some use. every deck now has to have some sort of creature in it, whether it is performing the function of what used to be an enchantment, or artifact, or if they just took an older spell ability and put it on a new creature. if you want interaction between your cards in standard deck you better have creatures in it.

to me it is the newer player base of little bastards that were raised getting trophies just for showing up that has led to this state. the game isnt any harder from when i was a teenager people aren't any less intelligent(debatable) but the fact the newest generation doesnt actually like to have to put serious thought or time into something to figure out how to make it useful. they would much rather have something tongue and cheek spoonfed to them with neon lights that says this creature and this card wins game. most of them wouldn't have the patients to try and figure out how to shutdown hardcore combo/LD without building decks to specifically to hose them or to build their own deck without hitting up every mtg forum/lab to have someone else build their deck this is why all the top decks are variations of the same theme in each standard rotation.



There's been a revelation in Magic design: mtg creatures can break the mold for effeciency as long as good removal and attack disruption is present in the format also. I mean, a 1 mana 7/7 wouldn't be fair, but a 3 mana 4/4 vanillia would be fine.

personally i love what they have been doing with creatures and would have no problem with them continuing it, i only wish every few sets they would drop a set of equally powerful spells. say for every 4 sets of ever increasing powerful creatures they added a set that was on par with say urza's block for non-creature spell power and silliness.

Magic the Drinking Game rules
here are the rules for MtDG: 1.at the beginning of each players turn that player takes a drink. 2.whenever a permanent you control is placed in a graveyard from play, drink. 3. whenever a spell you play is countered, drink. if the countered spells caster attempts to counter the counter, the loser of the counter battle must drink for a number of seconds for each counterspell that went on the stack. 4. whenever a player "loses life" that player must drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life lost. (a) if a player would gain life, that player may make another player drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life gained. 5. if a player puts a card from their library into their graveyard that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to the number of cards placed in graveyard. 6.if a player would discard a card that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to cards discarded. 7. on any coinflip the loser must drink. 8. at the end of each game all players must finish their drink. 9. loser must fetch all drinks/refills for the next game. if playing multiplayer use a**hole heirarchy(president,vp,secretary,treasurer,a**hole) 10. a player who wins 3 consecutive matches may add a "world effect" that affects all players and can not be removed without winning 3 consecutive matches and negating effect. multiple effects stack i.e if person wins 3 games then wins another 3 games both effects that player created stack. 11. ALL cards are legal, including ante cards.
 
Modern EldraziTron
[deck]

2x all is dust
1x blightsteel colossus
4x blinkmoth nexus
4x chromatic sphere
4x chromatic star
4x eldrazi conscription
1x emrakul, the aeons torn
4x expedition map
1x eye of ugin
4x inkmoth nexus
3x karn, liberated
1x kozilek, butcher of truth
2x mana confluence
2x oblivion stone
4x proteus staff
4x relic of progenitus
1x ulamog, the infinite gyre
4x urza's mine
4x urza's power plant
4x urza's tower
2x wurmcoil engine

[/deck]

personally i love what they have been doing with creatures and would have no problem with them continuing it, i only wish every few sets they would drop a set of equally powerful spells. say for every 4 sets of ever increasing powerful creatures they added a set that was on par with say urza's block for non-creature spell power and silliness.


You don't actually know much about Magic history, do you? Combo Winter nearly killed the game. The power level got high enough that Necropotence wasn't good enough. Any format where Necropotence is below the curve is stupidly overpowered. That was one of the few times where even in hindsight the game was actually in danger. Asking for R&D to intentionally do that again even once is ridiculous.


Also: Yes, the barrier to entry for the game is lower. That was part of the point. But the higher levels still require large amounts of skill to compete. Delver is an easy deck to build but a difficult deck to run well. (Trust me, I've beaten up on enough people at FNM who thought running a T1 deck was enough to guarantee them wins, and I'm sure you've done the same)
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
urza's block was just broken. damn that was one hilarious block. but in a bad bad way. but its a cult classic nontheless. show and tell anyone?
Pretty much what other posters have said.
I don't think the game is dumber now. I don't think it is going to die. I never claimed either, even if it sounded like it.
What I do claim, is that spell-based combat and creature-based combat both require skill, just different skillsets. One is not more valid than the other, but spell-based combat is being pushed to the wayside. It would be good if both were available.

Re: combo being the easiest deck to play. You're telling me that combo decks are easier to play than tap-out control? Some aggro decks? Sure, some decks are simply barf your hand, draw more cards, then win the game, where the only meaningful decisions are deckbuilding, sideboarding, mulligans, and playing around disruption. Then there are others like vintage storm, where seeing chains of plays that are 5 cards long, including Yawgmoth's Will, is considered "obvious". Or the Second sunrise deck, which requires a lot of skill to play at a high level. 

@leveelevee: Show and Tell? How about Tolarian Academy, Time Spiral, Windfall, Stroke of Genius, Memory Jar, Tinker, Frantic Search, Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key, Mind over Matter, Palinchron, Cloud of Faeries, Snap? In a format with Lotus Petal, Mana Vault, Intuition, and Mox Diamond? We're talking turn 1 kills in standard level bad. 

Sig
Disclaimers
My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so. Just because it says I'm there, I'm not necessarily there. I leave my browser open so I don't have to reload ~30 tabs. Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
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quotes
56819178 wrote:
So, how would I use a card that has a large in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
57031358 wrote:
99113151 wrote:
Winning is not important if: 1. You win by a blowout. 2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what? do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
57169958 wrote:
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA )
57193048 wrote:
57169958 wrote:
Hmmm... I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
56287226 wrote:
We regret to inform you of Trevor Kidd's untimely demise in an unfortunate accident involving a mysteriously blown breaker box and a photophobic creature of unknown origin at his home near Renton, Washington. We at the Wizards Community apologize for any inconvenience or delay, and assure you we'll be preparing a replacement to assume his duties as soon as we finish warming up the cloning vats.
[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!" [02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence [10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC [10:11:51] *sigh* [10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence? [10:12:17] sure [10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction [10:12:25] :P [10:12:29] :D [10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
Ego
58325628 wrote:
Mage is awesome, BTW.
56967858 wrote:
Dear Mage24365, You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
58158398 wrote:
56761258 wrote:
I don't think there are any cards like that. There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically. There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player. I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth; Dormant Gomazoa; Samite Ministration.
56761258 wrote:
Well played.

 

urza's block was great cause it actually made the player feel like a planeswalker and not some lackey waiting to call a planeswalker out to win them the game. one of the reasons i enjoyed the game was the general idea of the player was a planeswalker their library was their spell book and the cards there-in were representations of their power. the new sets make me feel  like mickey mouse in the sorcerers apprentice and the older sets were rastilin, gandolf, and eleminster. anyone hoping to use newer stuff to battle friends, even in causual games, who have access to premodern cards is like pissing on a forest fire and hoping to make a difference. while it is not always the case due to deck building skills it does skew things towards the one with access to older spells and newer creatures.


Magic the Drinking Game rules
here are the rules for MtDG: 1.at the beginning of each players turn that player takes a drink. 2.whenever a permanent you control is placed in a graveyard from play, drink. 3. whenever a spell you play is countered, drink. if the countered spells caster attempts to counter the counter, the loser of the counter battle must drink for a number of seconds for each counterspell that went on the stack. 4. whenever a player "loses life" that player must drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life lost. (a) if a player would gain life, that player may make another player drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life gained. 5. if a player puts a card from their library into their graveyard that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to the number of cards placed in graveyard. 6.if a player would discard a card that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to cards discarded. 7. on any coinflip the loser must drink. 8. at the end of each game all players must finish their drink. 9. loser must fetch all drinks/refills for the next game. if playing multiplayer use a**hole heirarchy(president,vp,secretary,treasurer,a**hole) 10. a player who wins 3 consecutive matches may add a "world effect" that affects all players and can not be removed without winning 3 consecutive matches and negating effect. multiple effects stack i.e if person wins 3 games then wins another 3 games both effects that player created stack. 11. ALL cards are legal, including ante cards.
 
Modern EldraziTron
[deck]

2x all is dust
1x blightsteel colossus
4x blinkmoth nexus
4x chromatic sphere
4x chromatic star
4x eldrazi conscription
1x emrakul, the aeons torn
4x expedition map
1x eye of ugin
4x inkmoth nexus
3x karn, liberated
1x kozilek, butcher of truth
2x mana confluence
2x oblivion stone
4x proteus staff
4x relic of progenitus
1x ulamog, the infinite gyre
4x urza's mine
4x urza's power plant
4x urza's tower
2x wurmcoil engine

[/deck]

urza's block was great cause it actually made the player feel like a planeswalker and not some lackey waiting to call a planeswalker out to win them the game. one of the reasons i enjoyed the game was the general idea of the player was a planeswalker their library was their spell book and the cards there-in were representations of their power. the new sets make me feel  like mickey mouse in the sorcerers apprentice and the older sets were rastilin, gandolf, and eleminster. anyone hoping to use newer stuff to battle friends, even in causual games, who have access to premodern cards is like pissing on a forest fire and hoping to make a difference. while it is not always the case due to deck building skills it does skew things towards the one with access to older spells and newer creatures.




You could say the first bit for every period before lorwyn, and many points afterwards.
Your library is your memory.
How so?
You're saying that card availability is a major problem in casual? That's nothing new. 

Sig
Disclaimers
My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so. Just because it says I'm there, I'm not necessarily there. I leave my browser open so I don't have to reload ~30 tabs. Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
# Card Blind Hall of Fame
3CB
3CB #1 (1/30/11): Won by silasw, with Mishra's Factory, Orzhov Basilica, Vindicate. 3CB #2 (2/13/11): Won by Vektor480, with Mishra's Workshop, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 3CB #3(2/20/11): Joint win between defuse, with Saprazzan Skerry, Scalding Tongs, Energy Field; and Mown, with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Inkmoth Nexus, Sheltered Valley 3CB #4(3/13/11): Won by Mown, with Keldon Megaliths, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Boros Garrison 3CB #5(3/20/11): Won by silasw, with Black Lotus, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
5CB
5CB 1 (3/6/11): Won by Maraxus-of-Keld, with Tropical Island, Thallid, Nether Spirit, Daze, Foil
quotes
56819178 wrote:
So, how would I use a card that has a large in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
57031358 wrote:
99113151 wrote:
Winning is not important if: 1. You win by a blowout. 2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what? do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
57169958 wrote:
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA )
57193048 wrote:
57169958 wrote:
Hmmm... I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
56287226 wrote:
We regret to inform you of Trevor Kidd's untimely demise in an unfortunate accident involving a mysteriously blown breaker box and a photophobic creature of unknown origin at his home near Renton, Washington. We at the Wizards Community apologize for any inconvenience or delay, and assure you we'll be preparing a replacement to assume his duties as soon as we finish warming up the cloning vats.
[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!" [02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence [10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC [10:11:51] *sigh* [10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence? [10:12:17] sure [10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction [10:12:25] :P [10:12:29] :D [10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
Ego
58325628 wrote:
Mage is awesome, BTW.
56967858 wrote:
Dear Mage24365, You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
58158398 wrote:
56761258 wrote:
I don't think there are any cards like that. There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically. There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player. I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth; Dormant Gomazoa; Samite Ministration.
56761258 wrote:
Well played.

 

I dont hate them Iam glad creatures have gotten better over the years.

Sets are mostly creatures now days but most of thoes creatures are under powered for there mana cost at lower rarity and that I dont agree with.

Many want to play with good creatures not some 5/6 for 8 with maybe trample if your luckey.
I miss the old days.
not that it is anything new but it was offset by each new set having a couple really broken spell cards that a new player could add and close the gap. what i have seen recently(which i will admit is lacking from absence from the game) is you get the support cards and the creature cards you would need but none of the backbone or threats that made things like force of will a necessity as creatures unless otherwise modified give that extra turn/breathing room to wipe the board or kill the threat.

as for show and tell, it is nice for non creature permanents but i can shifty doppelganger blightsteel,emrakul,worldspine worm early game with more damaging effect(in mono blue)....which goes back to creative thinking and deck building using ideas from old set cards. i posted in the worldspine wurm thread a way to have it out, attack, and give its tokens 2nd turn with no restricted cards or rituals, simply version put.. t1: r/g shockland orcishlumber jack t2:r/g shockland tap out tap lumberjack for red drop sneak attack then wurm. but lumberjack and sneak attack would probably be too strong now days by wizards reckoning.

Magic the Drinking Game rules
here are the rules for MtDG: 1.at the beginning of each players turn that player takes a drink. 2.whenever a permanent you control is placed in a graveyard from play, drink. 3. whenever a spell you play is countered, drink. if the countered spells caster attempts to counter the counter, the loser of the counter battle must drink for a number of seconds for each counterspell that went on the stack. 4. whenever a player "loses life" that player must drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life lost. (a) if a player would gain life, that player may make another player drink for a number of seconds equal to amount of life gained. 5. if a player puts a card from their library into their graveyard that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to the number of cards placed in graveyard. 6.if a player would discard a card that player drinks for a number of seconds equal to cards discarded. 7. on any coinflip the loser must drink. 8. at the end of each game all players must finish their drink. 9. loser must fetch all drinks/refills for the next game. if playing multiplayer use a**hole heirarchy(president,vp,secretary,treasurer,a**hole) 10. a player who wins 3 consecutive matches may add a "world effect" that affects all players and can not be removed without winning 3 consecutive matches and negating effect. multiple effects stack i.e if person wins 3 games then wins another 3 games both effects that player created stack. 11. ALL cards are legal, including ante cards.
 
Modern EldraziTron
[deck]

2x all is dust
1x blightsteel colossus
4x blinkmoth nexus
4x chromatic sphere
4x chromatic star
4x eldrazi conscription
1x emrakul, the aeons torn
4x expedition map
1x eye of ugin
4x inkmoth nexus
3x karn, liberated
1x kozilek, butcher of truth
2x mana confluence
2x oblivion stone
4x proteus staff
4x relic of progenitus
1x ulamog, the infinite gyre
4x urza's mine
4x urza's power plant
4x urza's tower
2x wurmcoil engine

[/deck]

I dont hate them Iam glad creatures have gotten better over the years.

Sets are mostly creatures now days but most of thoes creatures are under powered for there mana cost at lower rarity and that I dont agree with.

Many want to play with good creatures not some 5/6 for 8 with maybe trample if your luckey.


Uh... Are we looking at the same sets? Lower rarities are more consistently getting good P/T to CMC ratios than ever before. Contrast Scaled Wurm and Quilled Slagwurm. Sure, they're not all winners, but we've gotten a lot more Diregraf Ghouls and War Falcons and Crimson Muckwaders and Garruk's Companions in recent years than we have Pearled Unicorns and Spined Wurms.

@Filpurcup: You seem to be living in a golden age in your mind where having a handful of Show And Tell level cards surrounded by an otherwise healthy standard environment is a good thing. Wizards does not want metagames to be centered around a handful of ultrapowerful cards.

Also, I hate to be the one to make this argument, but honestly? If all you're looking for is 'more power' than perhaps the game for you is Yu-Gi-Oh where everything has two or three bonus zeros. Wizards can't cater to everybody at once, but the one group they can never cater to if they want the game to continue is the group who like playing overpowered cards. Down that pathway lies rampant powercreep.

Most eternal formats, for better or worse, are built on cards that Wizards considers mistakes. It all balances out when everybody is running stupidly broken things, but Standard is supposed to run at a lower overall power level. Power Level != Skill Level, as is readily demonstrated by limited events.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)


@leveelevee: Show and Tell? How about Tolarian Academy, Time Spiral, Windfall, Stroke of Genius, Memory Jar, Tinker, Frantic Search, Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key, Mind over Matter, Palinchron, Cloud of Faeries, Snap? In a format with Lotus Petal, Mana Vault, Intuition, and Mox Diamond? We're talking turn 1 kills in standard level bad. 



Yeah thats what i was talking about, thanks for the effort to show all those cards ^^ that is exactly what i meant. cheap first turn kills. 

i just choose show and tell as an example for the hilarious idea and artwork of that card in that specific hilarious block in particular.

The problem I have with this current state of things isn't that I can't build sorcery-only decks, no-creature decks or anything. The problem I have is that creatures have become so efficient (Undying, Hexproof, creates tokens when it dies, still screws you if it resolves, multiple of those...) that it has become obnoxiously obvious that your most viable answer to a given creature isn't Doom Blade, it's another creature. There used to be a time where Day of Judgment stabilized you against an aggro deck, not the contrary. There used to be a time that paying two mana to get rid of a creature was a noteworthy play on turn 2 every time. Right now, I really need to fight uphill battles against aggro decks or have a deck designed to eat them alive.

It's not the focus on creatures. It's the introduction of things like Geist of Saint Traft, Strangleroot Geist, Invisible Stalker, Sigarda, Primeval Titan and such that makes the metagame annoying. I want to be able to answer opposing creatures without needing creatures myself.

What focus on creatures is doing is choking control. 

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

The problem I have with this current state of things isn't that I can't build sorcery-only decks, no-creature decks or anything. The problem I have is that creatures have become so efficient (Undying, Hexproof, creates tokens when it dies, still screws you if it resolves, multiple of those...) that it has become obnoxiously obvious that your most viable answer to a given creature isn't Doom Blade, it's another creature. There used to be a time where Day of Judgment stabilized you against an aggro deck, not the contrary. There used to be a time that paying two mana to get rid of a creature was a noteworthy play on turn 2 every time. Right now, I really need to fight uphill battles against aggro decks or have a deck designed to eat them alive.

It's not the focus on creatures. It's the introduction of things like Geist of Saint Traft, Strangleroot Geist, Invisible Stalker, Sigarda, Primeval Titan and such that makes the metagame annoying. I want to be able to answer opposing creatures without needing creatures myself.

What focus on creatures is doing is choking control. 



Im playing a green/red mid range sort of thing with both strangleroot geist and primeval titan but still have a very hard time against control decks. there are vapor snags, mana leaks, spell snares to get rid of creatures in the second turn...

One thing that bugs me isn't the increased foucus on creatures (I tend to favor Aggro anyway), it's that cheap answers to creatures are being removed. Spells like Lightning Bolt and Fireball should be staples in a creature-heavy format, but instead these spells are nerfed to the point that the most effective answer to a creature is another creature. Instead of putting viable answers to creatures in Standard, Wizards insists on putting in subpar knockoffs like Shock , Incinerate  (which was later nerfed further into Searing Spear . Seriously guys, you want to nerf an already-underpowered card?) and Volcanic Geyser . This isn't healthy for Standard.
Thank you Blitzschnell for the awesome banner!
An example that I'm surprised that I didn't think of before: Pyromancer Ascension. Was that deck broken? Not at all. Was it a creatuerless combo deck? Yes. Was it interactive? Yes. Did it make the format better? Yes.

If more decks like that were viable, then the game would be better. As it is now, such decks don't exist in standard. 

Sig
Disclaimers
My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so. Just because it says I'm there, I'm not necessarily there. I leave my browser open so I don't have to reload ~30 tabs. Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
# Card Blind Hall of Fame
3CB
3CB #1 (1/30/11): Won by silasw, with Mishra's Factory, Orzhov Basilica, Vindicate. 3CB #2 (2/13/11): Won by Vektor480, with Mishra's Workshop, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 3CB #3(2/20/11): Joint win between defuse, with Saprazzan Skerry, Scalding Tongs, Energy Field; and Mown, with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Inkmoth Nexus, Sheltered Valley 3CB #4(3/13/11): Won by Mown, with Keldon Megaliths, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Boros Garrison 3CB #5(3/20/11): Won by silasw, with Black Lotus, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
5CB
5CB 1 (3/6/11): Won by Maraxus-of-Keld, with Tropical Island, Thallid, Nether Spirit, Daze, Foil
quotes
56819178 wrote:
So, how would I use a card that has a large in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
57031358 wrote:
99113151 wrote:
Winning is not important if: 1. You win by a blowout. 2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what? do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
57169958 wrote:
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA )
57193048 wrote:
57169958 wrote:
Hmmm... I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
56287226 wrote:
We regret to inform you of Trevor Kidd's untimely demise in an unfortunate accident involving a mysteriously blown breaker box and a photophobic creature of unknown origin at his home near Renton, Washington. We at the Wizards Community apologize for any inconvenience or delay, and assure you we'll be preparing a replacement to assume his duties as soon as we finish warming up the cloning vats.
[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!" [02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence [10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC [10:11:51] *sigh* [10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence? [10:12:17] sure [10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction [10:12:25] :P [10:12:29] :D [10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
Ego
58325628 wrote:
Mage is awesome, BTW.
56967858 wrote:
Dear Mage24365, You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
58158398 wrote:
56761258 wrote:
I don't think there are any cards like that. There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically. There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player. I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth; Dormant Gomazoa; Samite Ministration.
56761258 wrote:
Well played.

 

It's not the focus on creatures. It's the introduction of things like Geist of Saint Traft, Strangleroot Geist, Invisible Stalker, Sigarda, Primeval Titan and such that makes the metagame annoying. I want to be able to answer opposing creatures without needing creatures myself. 


I personally think such cards make the meta more interesting rather than less. (SIDE NOTE: Terminus still answers every single one of those cards for either 1 or 6 mana) After all, if my Murder could always stop every useful creature every time, it wouldn't matter how powerful the creatures were, I could always rely on sitting atop my control mountain and laughing. (I should know. I used to sit atop control mountain and throw popcorn at passing creatures) By having a variety of creatures that require different answers in order to effectively stop, the control deck is forced to adjust to the metagame and change answers (both maindecked and sideboarded) in order to avoid losing.

Although there are definitely cards that push things too far in the aggro direction (My least favorite are the swords) and R&D has admitted some cards such as Invisible Stalker pushed hexproof a bit too much, in general I like the diversity of removal-dodging creatures have now.

Besides, there's a few standard answers that still solve almost everything. Mana Leak stops just about everything in the format except Thrun, Vapor Snag can cause serious problems for almost any aggro deck, and Terminus gets rid of every single creature every time. (If it resolves)

My personal irritation is non-creature 'can't be countered' effects because they are completely unstoppable. (In Standard anyways)

Incinerate (which was later nerfed further into Searing Spear . Seriously guys, you want to nerf an already-underpowered card?)


Incinerate turning into Searing Spear had nothing to do with power level concerns. It was simply about unnecessary rules text. How many times (in standard) have you cast Incinerate and thought 'Thank god it prevents regeneration!'? For me the answer is 'none'. The anti-regen clause was almost always useless, so it left.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)

I'm not really bothered by the more creaturecentric game. I love playing creatures, if I didn't I would refuse to play draft, my favorite format. What kind of disturbs me though is that R&D doesn't seem to consider how aggravating it could feel to play against a certain creature, yet they seem to consider how annoying it is to play against a good counterspell. In the next two years R&D is going to print a Silhana Ledgewalker with Armadillo Cloak already attached to it, I'm calling it.


Another thing that bothers me is the fact that Draw-Go seems like something that is dying, unless you mean a counterlight aggro-control (aggro emphasised) variant of the deck that intends to close the game very quickly. Wizards is making it so that no matter what answers you pack, it is impossible to deal with everything via spells alone. It's not like you can just throw a creature in front of their threats either. Their creature could have resilience, recursion, evasion, or a combination of the above. Their deck could also be running removal to deal with your blocker as well. Creatures aren't really built to be good defenders, they are all built to be good attackers (haven't seen something like Wall of Denial in awhile (Fog Bank doesn't count because it D2R)). I don't want to play a control deck that hopes to Miracle stupid cards and resolve a Planeswalker that takes over the game. I want to play a control deck that feels like a struggle with my opponent. Meh, I just avoid Standard all together these days though, so it doesn't really affect me.

And I have to wonder why? Why do people believe creatures to require less skill? What is it about instants and sorceries that makes them superior in terms of skill level?


You're absolutely right, but I don't think this is the basis of the complaint.
Does Checkers require more skill to play than Chess? Not really in a way that would matter to most players, since they would not be able to play Checkers skillfully enough to hold their own against the top Checkers players. The skill you need to win at a game depends more on your opponent than on the game.
Instead, it's a question of the interest and variety in the game. The kind of planning and strategizing one enjoys doing. Thus, in Checkers, what makes it hard is because captures are compulsory, and so sometimes one has to calculate more moves in advance than one would need to in Chess; in Chess, the unique nature of the moves of each type of piece is what is important.
It isn't "I want to work hard", but "I want to have fun", and some people find a creature against creature game boring.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

I suppose my initial point was more that I am confused when experienced players who no doubt believe themselves intelligent fail to see that there is no real different between playing creatures and playing instants/sorceries and so talk about the new 'hurr durr creatures' approach as though you couldn't summarize old magic as 'hurr durr combos' in a similar manner.

What's that? You're about to type a furious rebuttal about how actually winning with combos took timing, skill, and experience? You think I'm dumbing your favorite part of the game down to an incredible oversimplification?

I can understand preferring to play with sorceries/instants over creatures. That makes perfect sense to me. My issue is with all of the people who consider any deck, regardless of what it does, to instantly be boring as long as it involves creatures. Why on earth do some people insist on grouping Jund, Wolf Run Ramp, Delver, Pod, Fairies, Naya, Humans, and Goblins together as though they were all actually the same deck?

To put it another way: Why is a creatureless deck seen to be 'pure' in some way an artifactless or sorceryless deck isn't?

To answer my own question: Because people get too caught up in the flavor to realize that ultimately there's no difference in winning by attacking with Raging Goblin 20 times and winning by tapping Scepter of Empires 20 times.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
In the old days creatures generally sucked. This is a huge reason for the "green sucks" meme. These days, creatures are getting better, but creatures are just as bad; the last Core Set Survivor (besides the basics) was Giant Spider, which is strictly worse than something blue's had at common since Legends. Seriously? Would a 3/4 or a 2/5 for be too much to ask? A 3/4 with reach for would still be unplayable, but at least it wouldn't make me feel like a moron.

@fillupurcup: LOL @ on par with Urza's block. You really want that? Because I have a lot of creatures on the curve and can recur every last one of them. Seriously. One of the best Urza block creatures did get reprinted, though another didn't.

@Mage24365: I think it became an unofficial contest. See who could find the most turn-one Memory Jar kills. And oh yeah, they tried to make a better Greed and instead made a "fixed" Necro which might be more broken than the original because this kind of thing can't just be fixed with mana cost.

@leveelevee: You play midrange. The problem is that your opponent's deck contains cards. Cards hose midrange.

@CyberSpade: Volcanic Hammer is worse than Searing Spear. Red's had far worse. Remember the days of Kris Mage?

@Dragon_Nut: Delver isn't a creature deck. I wouldn't really consider Jund one either.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
@Dragon_Nut: Delver isn't a creature deck. I wouldn't really consider Jund one either.


Well no, neither would I, and that's my point. There seems to be a sizeable number of people who believe that if they can't build a tournament quality deck with exactly zero creatures then the format is somehow broken. Because ignoring an entire central card type intentionally should apparently always be a valid strategic option as opposed to an occasional quirky side thing.

You don't see somebody complaining because their creature based deck has to include a couple instants and sorceries to remain competitive.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
To a couple of people :

Mana Leak isn't an answer to any creature. Nor is Dissipate. Wizards printed Cavern of Souls to make sure that their creatures that were already protected against all removal were also protected against counterspells.

Nowadays, sweepers are the only really viable form of removal. If you want to deal with creatures, you sweep or you play creatures.

My next deck will surely feature four of that new sweeper, a couple of coutners (2-3) and a lot of efficient creatures. I have no choice in the matter, though I'd like to.

That's my problem. Can I whine? Not really. If most players like this, I'm not one to argue. However, I do think and voice my opinion that Control has been nerfed way too much.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

That's my problem. Can I whine? Not really. If most players like this, I'm not one to argue. However, I do think and voice my opinion that Control has been nerfed way too much.


What I find funny is that OP and a lot of people think that people who enjoy draw-go and other pure control strategies are not even entitled to an opinion, let alone to complain. Apparently the only thing we are allowed to do is quit magic!

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
What I find funny is that OP and a lot of people think that people who enjoy draw-go and other pure control strategies are not even entitled to an opinion, let alone to complain. Apparently the only thing we are allowed to do is quit magic!


No, you're entitled to your opinion. It's just that I'm also entitled to my opinion that your opinion is stupid.

A true DrawGo deck is one of the least interactive experiences ever. Without these newfangled anti-control cards you hate so much, the game goes one of two ways: Either you are able to leverage enough card advantage to ensure a steady stream of counters/disruption to stop your opponent from doing anything, or you aren't. Played & built properly, a drawgo deck renders the opponent's deck essentially meaningless.

The problem is not that DrawGo decks are unbeatable. They never were. (Although they were dominant for a long time) The problem is that very few of the choices the opponent makes matter. When your deck is made up of Counterspell, Mana Drain, Force of Will, and card advantage, you have no reason to ever actually change your playstyle, no matter what the opponent is playing.

Quite simply, any archetype that is able to largely ignore what the opponent does is not a healthy archetype to have around. Drawgo did that. It took a large amount of skill to make a DrawGo deck deliver on the promise of stopping just about anything without caring much what the opponent is running, but once you had that skill the opponent was no longer playing Magic. They were playing 'Mother May I?'

It's not about them 'not having fun.' It's about them no longer actually having a say in how the game ends at all.

Plus there's the innate conceit of the belief that any strategy should always be viable. Standard is enjoyed by the people who enjoy it largely because it changes regularly. If you could run the same decklist with minor changes year after year, there wouldn't be any reason to play Standard instead of Vintage/Legacy/Modern.

Aside from the most basic term such as 'aggro' or 'control' there is no archetype which has remained consistently tier 1 for longer than a year in Standard. (And the few times there were, bannings usually happened)
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Because years of playing hardcore has made their hearts hard and black and they are no longer capable of having fun.
A true DrawGo deck is one of the least interactive experiences ever.

lol
I'm pretty sure these guys aren't asking to have Turbo Statis back. 

Also, I don't see how counterspells aren't interactive.  
I like my Sonic Boom DrawGo deck
and it is quite interactive, I rarely have enough counterspells to counter all their spells, so I have to choose which I can counter

I get that it is not fun to have most of your spells countered, but on the other side it is no easy ride either
proud member of the 2011 community team
A true DrawGo deck is one of the least interactive experiences ever.

lol


Let's say you're running AllBlueCounters.dek and I'm running NotCounters.dek

I cast...

... Does it matter?

I'm running Wolf Run! I cast Huntmaster of the Fells!

You say... Mana Leak.

I'm still running Wolf Run, but now I cast Primeval Titan!

You say... Mana Leak.

Now I'm running Pod. I cast Birthing Pod!

You say... Mana Leak.

Okay, how about Humans? I cast Silverblade Paladin!

You say... Mana Leak.

Maybe MonoGreen? I cast Dungrove Elder!

You say... Mana Leak.

Ha. But you can't stop... GRIXISWALKERCONTROL! I cast Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker!

You say... Mana Leak.

Well, back to an old favorite. I'm now using Zambies. I cast Geralf's Messenger!

You say... Mana Leak.

Moving back in time, now I'm using Jund. I cast Blightning!

You say... Mana Leak.


Yes, it's noninteractive. You literally do not care which spell I'm casting. If it causes you problems, you counter it. It doesn't matter what I'm casting because Mana Leak is good for it. Or Counterspell is or Mana Drain is etc.

Sure, you can run out of counters. That's not interactivity. That's me getting the luck to draw more threats than you draw counters or you choosing threats poorly.

I understand the appeal of DrawGo. DrawGo is the only deck that can always win with a decent bit of luck and a highly skilled player at the helm against any other non-draw-go deck. (In the absence of uncounterable spells)

It takes skill to run DrawGo properly. Lots of skill. It is easy to screw up DrawGo. The problem is that when DrawGo is run at its best it tends to beat any non-degenerate archetype without giving the opponent a chance to compete. Morever, it requires minimal tuning to the metagame in the absence of uncounterable spells.


Yes. There are cards that dodge counters. Cards like Thrun, The Last Troll and Bloodbraid Elf. These cards stop DrawGo from stopping every single card with the same two or three options. These are the same cards you complain about.

You complain about the cards that stop DrawGo from stopping everything with the same two cards and then point back to them when somebody points out the noninteractivity.

Could counters be better than they are now? Yes. But what with Snapcaster Mage and Delver of Secrets still in the format, you'll have to wait a bit. Control will come back, but DrawGo will not. 
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)

Have you actually played with or against a Draw Go deck before? The scarcity of counters does actually create tension and interactivity. The order in which my opponent plays their spells might completely change based on the fact that I'm playing Draw Go and have mana open. Each spell poses the question "Should I counter that?" and each turn poses the question "Should I leave mana up?" If these questions are answered wrong they could be fatal to you.


Also I never friggin' complained about uncounterable creatures, I'm not even impressed by that new 4/4 elephant. Don't put words in my mouth please. Thank you.

if you only ever played against a DrawGo deck it might seem dull to you

but if you ever play it yourself you see that it has nuances
it is one of the most stressful decks that I play, simply because it requires so much thought and planning (very blue)

it's too bad that playing against that deck is so unpleasant (I've been on the other side ;)), or I would enjoy it more
but after a few ragequits (usually on the 3rd or 4th counterspell) I also lose the desire to play it and switch decks
proud member of the 2011 community team

Have you actually played with or against a Draw Go deck before? The scarcity of counters does actually create tension and interactivity. The order in which my opponent plays their spells might completely change based on the fact that I'm playing Draw Go and have mana open. Each spell poses the question "Should I counter that?" and each turn poses the question "Should I leave mana up?" If these questions are answered wrong they could be fatal to you.


Also I never friggin' complained about uncounterable creatures, I'm not even impressed by that new 4/4 elephant. Don't put words in my mouth please. Thank you.



Yes. Once again: Draw Go is incredibly difficult to play properly, but if you do run it properly it can shut down just about anything else. Running it at that level is difficult. Draw Go requires skill to play. An idiot can't effectively play Draw Go. I can phrase it any way you like, but the difficulty inherent in playing drawgo is not the point. The point is that if it is good enough to beat a deck, there are not a lot of plays the other deck can make to stop you. It may be challenging for you to make the right decisions to ensure victory, but the critical, game altering decisions? They all belong to you and not your opponent. Which spells to counter, when to drop the finishers, when to draw cards, these are all choices you make. Draw Go by its very nature is about limiting your opponents options as much as possible.


There is not much of a safe area for DrawGo to both work effectively (Which is what you want. Ineffective drawgo is meaningless to everyone) and not overpower anything else not degenerate.

If you weren't one of the people complaining about the Smiter/Abrupt Decay/Thrun, then I wasn't talking to you. A few quotes from a relevant threads for the uncounterable things:
Quotes

WHAT. THE. ****. WIZARDS.

Systematically hating on my control decks, one card at a time.


 I may very well be one or two more "cannot be countered" spells away from washing my hands of the set as a whole.


Another spell that can't be countered? This is getting kind of stupid.


I felt waves of nausea when I looked at this card. At least there's still (A)D&D and Warhammer variations to keep a guy happy...

Who knows, though? Maybe if the powercreep keeps up I'll have opponents willing to play against my best decks. Not like they'll be functional against **** like this card though.     

Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
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