Dwarves and sight.

Dwarves should have darkvision i think they are born and raised in mountains or caves some dwarves only see the light of a tourch and forge.
Dwarves should have darkvision i think they are born and raised in mountains or caves some dwarves only see the light of a tourch and forge.



They may live underground - but they don't live in dark, bare tunnels.  They live in vast halls lit by torches and hearths.  They are no more likely to find themselves in eternal darkness than your average office cubicle worker.

Low-light vision is the norm, darkvision should be rare and restricted to those races that never leave the dark.

In fact - I'd say that darkvision and light sensitivity should be tighly connected, if not explicitely two sides of the same coin.

Carl
bring back infravision
What's the matter, you dissentious rogues, That rubbing the poor itch of your opinion Make yourselves scabs?
Its similar in fact and even better as Infravision has a range while Lowlight Vision doesn't, only distance away from light.

So Dwarves treat darkness as shadows and can see in shadows for all practical purposes.


EDITED To Strikethrough 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Its similar in fact and even better as Infravision has a range while Lowlight Vision doesn't, only distance away from light.

So Dwarves treat darkness as shadows and can see in shadows for all practical purposes.


I could get behind that.
Its similar in fact and even better as Infravision has a range while Lowlight Vision doesn't, only distance away from light.

So Dwarves treat darkness as shadows and can see in shadows for all practical purposes.


I could get behind that.



Well - that's good.  Since that is how the rules currently work.

Carl
Its similar in fact and even better as Infravision has a range while Lowlight Vision doesn't, only distance away from light.

So Dwarves treat darkness as shadows and can see in shadows for all practical purposes.



Waaaaait a sec.  I read Low-Light as having a radius of 30', centered on the player:


Low-Light Vision: If there is no light within 30 feet of you, you treat shadows in that radius as normal light, and you treat darkness in that radius as shadows. 

So everything outside of 30' would be as normal vision dictates.  Right? 




Yeah in that radius your right i went off the top of my head.

Outsie that radius they should treat darkness as darkness.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Its similar in fact and even better as Infravision has a range while Lowlight Vision doesn't, only distance away from light.

So Dwarves treat darkness as shadows and can see in shadows for all practical purposes.




Cool!
I've always imagined that Dwarves would be fairly near-sighted, since they never have to focus at a distance beyond which they've lit with torches and lamps.

That's just me, though. 

The metagame is not the game.

Bright Light, dim light (shadows), darkness is a subject that was done wrong in every edition.

And its about time we clean it up. I don't like standard races having darkvision because it cheapens the use of darkness in a dungeon.

Who needs torches and lanterns when 90% of the party have some form of darkvision / low light vision? as well as unlimited light spells.

Without the fear of darkness, a dungeon sundenly looses the creepy feeling. Creatures can't really use stealth to its full effect and traps, hazards are left in plain sight.

Personally, I wouldn't give low light vision to any of the core races except maybe dwarf and certainly wouldn't given darkvision to any race except those that literally live in complete darkness.

The underdark is supposed to be just that - DARK.

Some editions had to introduce Darkness spells that cast 'magical darkness' in a poor attempt at solving this problem, while the problem was with the characters having to many ways to counter the darkness.
As things stand now, those with Low-Light Vision can see in the dark-- so there doesn't have to be even low light for Low Light Vision to work.

bring back infravision

This. No more half light low light stuff. Infravision.
Another option to explore would be shortened distance.

Darkvision 60' is pretty powerful but what if it was Darkvision 10' .... sure you can see whats directly in front of you, and you can read in the dark... but can you really see the creatures about to amush you without a proper light source?
I've always imagined that Dwarves would be fairly near-sighted, since they never have to focus at a distance beyond which they've lit with torches and lamps.

That's just me, though. 


Truely brilliant. I like to think that thier large ears and noses help them navigate through the tunnels they live in. An extremely limited version of blind sight using smell and audible cues. Behold! They are mole-men!

It all helps them be something more than just small, stout humans. 

Low-Light Vision: If there is no light within 30 feet of you, you treat shadows in that radius as normal light, and you treat darkness in that radiusas shadows. 

So everything outside of 30' would be as normal vision dictates.  Right? 



I think this is how it should work 

Low-Light Vision: If there is a light source but you are outside of it's light radius by no more than half of that radius, within a radius of X feet of you treat shadows as normal light and darkness as shadows.

If they are in the radius of the light source, then the area of their retina that provides enhanced low-light vision is essentially blinded and they see as a human would. They should not be able to see in total darkness.
 
Actually, I really like how they have LLV in Next. It lets the races that can traditionally see in the dark really see in the dark, but the 30 ft limit means that they are still handicapped. The fact that it doesn't work when light is around, though, means that in a mixed group carrying lights you don't have to worry about some characters seeing things that others can't. Finally, losing your dark adaptation near lights is a nice nod to realism.
Another option to explore would be shortened distance.

Darkvision 60' is pretty powerful but what if it was Darkvision 10' .... sure you can see whats directly in front of you, and you can read in the dark... but can you really see the creatures about to amush you without a proper light source?



This is a great idea. And I think only Dwarves should have it. I don't get why Elves have Low-Light Vision. Sure they have good eyesight but it still requires light. Dwarves get Darkvision 10' and Elves get Keen Senses.
This is one of those things that 4e got right.  Normal vision and low-light vision.  Every race should need some light to see.  Well, the ones that rely on vision should need light anyway.
I can't say that vision has come up around my table very often. I've yet to see a group where at least one of the casters didn't have the light spell.

Elves have low-light because......they............live in the forest.........are magical. I'm sticking with because they are magical. I'm just happy that Dwarves received any vision beyond normal at this point.

I suspect that the only player race to get dark-vision will be drow, but I would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.
I can't say that vision has come up around my table very often. I've yet to see a group where at least one of the casters didn't have the light spell.

Elves have low-light because......they............live in the forest.........are magical. I'm sticking with because they are magical. I'm just happy that Dwarves received any vision beyond normal at this point.

I suspect that the only player race to get dark-vision will be drow, but I would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.



Pleasantly surprised because they don't get it either?  Or pleasantly surprised because another race also gets it?


I'd prefer the former.


Carl   
I can't say that vision has come up around my table very often. I've yet to see a group where at least one of the casters didn't have the light spell.

Elves have low-light because......they............live in the forest.........are magical. I'm sticking with because they are magical. I'm just happy that Dwarves received any vision beyond normal at this point.

I suspect that the only player race to get dark-vision will be drow, but I would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.



Pleasantly surprised because they don't get it either?  Or pleasantly surprised because another race also gets it?


I'd prefer the former.


Carl   




I'd be happy either way, but I certainly agree that having multiple options to gain dark-vision would be preferred.