Why No Booster Packs for Dungeon Command?

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 I've been greatly enjoying the Dungeon Command game, both as a stand alone game and as expanions to the D&D Adventure Games, however one thing is bothering me.
 The rules book states "Create your own Warbands". The only products available are the full boxed starter sets. While they are awesome, they are also costly. With the "only 4 of any card" rule, if I wanted to create a custom warband that contained .... say 4 Halfling Sneaks I would need to purchase 4 Heart of Cormyr boxed sets. My local store sells them for $22.95 a set, which is a pretty decent price; but to truly have the options to create a truly cutomized Warband based on the Heart of Cormyr set it would cost me $92.80 plus tax. I would have to do the same for each boxed set that's released.
 Heart of Cormyr
 Sting of Lolth
 Tyranny of Goblins
 Curse of Undeath
 Blood of Gruumsh

 That's nearly $500.00 for the privelege of creating custom warbands based on each boxed set, and that's only considering the sets that they have posted release information about. 
 
 This is actually a pretty poor business model. The only people who are going to put out that kind of investment are the die hard fans, and even then only those with a fair bit of disposable income. The casual players are only going to buy one of each box, and stop there. It means that the casual players aren't going to be able to play competively, which means they're going to stop buying the product that much sooner.

 While I love the boxed sets, I don't have that much disposable income. I'm not going to be able to build custom warbands beyond what I can to by mixing and matching from the individual boxed sets I have. I might be tempted to buy additional boxed sets, but they come with a lot of material that I'm just going to throw away. Map Tiles, HP counters, Monster Counters, Treasure Markers & Counters, Commander Cards, Rule Books. I get as many of those as I need in the first set I buy. I'm going to wind up tossing a good chunk of the boxes content just to get the Cards and Minatures I need to make up my custom Warband. Spending $23 for a box where I'm only going to throw half of it away is hard to justitfy. 

 Booster Packs that contained a few Order Cards, 1-3 Minatures (depending on size) and their associated Cards, is something that I could invest in provided it was prices reasonably. A small Booster Pack that sold for .... say $9.00 is something that would allow players to build their own custom Warbands without a huge investment and would attract a much larger player base than you are likely to get if the only products every released are the boxed sets.

 Just my opinion.

 
Just my opinion.



You can buy individual figures and cards relatively cheaply, for example at Auggies Games, where a Halfling Sneak sells for $0.59. A well stocked warband should still be considerably cheaper than a compeittive Magic the Gathering deck. 

I had tried a quick search to see if I could buy items individually but didn't come up with anything. Admitidadly my search wasn't very extensive and I gave up relatively quickly.
*edit* thank you for the name of the website by the way.

 I will probably avail myself of those options if nothing else is available, but I stand by my statement that it's a poor business model for Wizards of the Coast to put out the boxed sets without also supporting them with booster packs. It would be like if Magic the Gathering consisted of nothing but premade decks.
As someone who played the old mini game (and MtG a bit), $500 for every creature you could field into a deck seems pretty reasonable... :D
 Actually I wouldn't have as much a problem with it, if it wasn't for the fact that I only need half the box's contents and the rest would be a waste of money. That's one of the reasons booster packs would make better sense, as well as providing for a wider consumer base instead of just the hard core players.
 Now, granted Hreth noted that some websites are selling individual components for the games, but still that's somebody else taking advantage of WofC poor business model for the franchise. If booster packs existed there wouldn't be much of a market for individual out of box items. It also puts me at the mercy of those websites supply instead of relying on a more stable base from the original manufacturer.
 Not that I have anything against 3rd parties making a profit where the market has the options to do so. More power to them, and it's a benefit to people like me. But if WotC had better planning and forecasting people like me would be purchasing our goods directly from them instead of giving our money to a 3rd party.
I'll guarantee WOTC would have done some pretty thorough research into selling booster packs, as you have described and have come to one conclusion ... there just isn't the money in them.

As much as we think that the company WOTC are there for they love of the game, it ain't.  If the product does not make money (or predicted to make money) itwon't get made.

I've read similar arguments on other forums regarding other miniatures games, and it isn't that WOTC don't listen to the game players or have a bad business model in your opinion.  It's just that there isn't the money in that style of booster.

Anyway, who says you need four of every pack to play the game?  I personally have thought that two are required at the most, with an occasional purchase from a retailer like Auggies.
I had tried a quick search to see if I could buy items individually but didn't come up with anything. Admitidadly my search wasn't very extensive and I gave up relatively quickly.
*edit* thank you for the name of the website by the way.

 I will probably avail myself of those options if nothing else is available, but I stand by my statement that it's a poor business model for Wizards of the Coast to put out the boxed sets without also supporting them with booster packs. It would be like if Magic the Gathering consisted of nothing but premade decks.

www.auggiesgamesonline.com/Figures-pre-p...
right there dude. ;p Also contains the order decks and tiles, i bout the cards so i could have 4 of each and they came in exellent condition. pretty primo site for this stuff.
 bugging_bear: Perhaps you're right, and Wizards of the Coast did marketing research and determined that booster packs weren't economical. Perhaps I'm biased in what I want to see from the company as a consumer. Or perhaps not, I haven't seen comments regarding the issue so I could consider the point moot.
 And while you do have a point that WotC is attempting to make a profit, that's not going to generate sales if they don't meet the correct criteria for a product that the consumer wants to purchase. It's not only about sales. If it was then they'd just release any old crap they thought could make them a quick buck. The Dungeon Command games are decently made. I can see a few short cuts they could have taken to save themselves a few bucks here and there but they spent the expense to put out a higher quality product than they needed to. Why bother if they're only in it for the money?
 The fact that people are buying things from 3rd party sites means that there is a demand for smaller content than the full box. I don't know how much, but obviously the demand is there. And where there's demand there's opportunity for profit. Right now, 3rd party sites are taking advantage of the fact that WotC isn't suppling the demand.
 The product is still fairly new. We only have 2 of the 5 starter sets available to us. WotC could be biding their time to see how the sales pan out and if releasing booster packs would be a wise market decision. I'm trying to convince them via my comments that it would be worth their while. I hope it will be, but then again I'm biased because that's what I want to see from them. And from a marketing standpoint, there is a formula that for every person who takes the time to speak out on any given topic there are a certain number out there who feel the same way who aren't going to bother to comment. It's how they forecast sales based on consumer response. If enough people agree with me, and comment on it on message boards and such, then perhaps WotC will take enough notice to decide it would be worth their while. 

 Oh, and while I realize that 4 of a specific card is not strictly necessary, I mentioned it because the games rules cap out any card at 4 and some cards only come 1 to a box. It was an extreme example, but considering some of the comments I'd seen regarding the Warbands some people are making it wasn't so far to the extreme as to be unlikely.  

 Ryuuzetsu: Thanks for the link, I did find it after Hreth's comments. When I stated that I gave up fairly quickly I meant that I had looked a couple weeks ago when I first started thinking about wanting to buy outside the boxed sets. I will probably purchase some in the upcoming weeks after I rebuild my savings. August and July were expensive months for me. 
 My one disappointment with Auggies Games is that he didn't seem to sell the Event Card from the Heart of Cormyr set. I'd like to have multiple copies so that I won't have to keep pulling it from the Encounter Deck when I switch from Legend of Drizzt to Castle Ravenloft to Wrath of Ashardalon.   
WotC is too busy counting their money to listen to your complaints, sorry.  Their business models screw consumers by design (see: CCGs), because they're a business out to try and make money.  And believe me, they're going to make fistfuls of money from DC by selling to resalers like Auggie and eBayers.  It's odd though, they specifically talk about wanting to support the competitive aspect of this game in this interview, but the anti-consumer business model doesn't agree with that:

As much as we think that the company WOTC are there for they love of the game, it ain't.  If the product does not make money (or predicted to make money) itwon't get made.



Conversely, if you don't love what you do, it's usually makes it a lot harder to make money.

 Plus, as I already stated they put out a higher quality product than they needed to. The minatures are painted, and Tiles are of much better quality than the Adventure Set Tiles. The Order and Creature cards are in color and on high glossy card stock, better quality than the cards with the Adveture Sets. 
 Yes they are a business, yes they are concerned with making money; but the Dungeon Command game release shows they are also committed to giving out decent product as well. 
  I'm not saying they're perfect, especially since I feel that they're not following the best business model they could, but that doesn't mean I think they're money grubbing corporate bastards either.

 Side Note: Doing a quick check on Auggie I did a brief math check. It would cost about as much to buy a whole new starter box as it would to buy the Order Cards and the Minuatures as individual pieces; if I was to try and purchase them in quantities that match the starter box that is. 
 I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer. 

 
WotC is too busy counting their money to listen to your complaints, sorry.  Their business models screw consumers by design (see: CCGs), because they're a business out to try and make money.  And believe me, they're going to make fistfuls of money from DC by selling to resalers like Auggie and eBayers.  It's odd though, they specifically talk about wanting to support the competitive aspect of this game in this interview, but the anti-consumer business model doesn't agree with that:




I find the model kind of frustrating as well, but what's the reasonable alternative, assuming 4-of is actually the cirrect number of cards to allow?  If you try to sell everything individually, it becomes impossible to convince stores to stock the game because inventory management is a nightmare.  And if you sell a complete set then it's overwhelming for newbies and costs a fortune; less than buying 4 boxes, sure, but not a whole lot because the majority of the cost is in minis.

I think tournaments that draft boxes and singles sales are both reasonable ways to cope, and I think it's really wasy to say "those money-grubbing bastards!" but I don't think DC is going to make them a mint.  I hope I'm wrong and it does super well, but if they were wanting to rake us over the coals, they'd make it a CMG.  Preset boxes are just not going to get there in terms of making a fortune; the most you ever possibly need for one person is four boxes of each, which makes them about as much money as selling a single box of Magic boosters.
I still don't understand why this model is considered expensive. $100 or even $160 at MSRP for a complete set (as in you don't have to buy a single more item for this set, period) is a steal compared to MtG and the previous miniature game.

I remember buying cases of the Wardrums, Deathknell, and Underdark for $70-80 bucks and needing to buy 4-5 to even get a single copy of every model... let alone 4.

I do agree that it's obnoxious that I also get the tiles and rules, but that's something I'm willing to deal with.  

It frustrates me when I'm trying to sell the game because people don't like to hear that the box isn't complete.  I agree with you that it's not ultimately that expensive, but it is a turn-off to gamers that are used to buying things complete, which is too bad.

Though 100% agreed it is way better than CMG distribution. 
 swilde23: While as a total investment it might not be that bad in comparision (I've got more money inveseted in Magic the Gathering myself), the main issue that casual players will have is that the investment it up front. For example, I don't need to invest a couple hundred dollars in Magic the Gathering right away. I can buy a starter deck for $12.00 or so and then buy booster packs to slowly build my collection up. I can spend as little or as much as I want, over as long or short a time period as I want. I can get a nice slow progression into the game by purchasing a few booster packs every paycheck, or I can do it all at once if I want to spend the cash.
 That's not an option with Dungeon Command. It's got one price to pay, and that's it. The only break you might get is if your local retailer sells them cheaper than other stores (I'm fortunate that mine does).
 I didn't play the previous miniatures game, I was out of the D&D loop for quite a while and I've only recently gotten back into it thanks to a few friends (and my daughter's boyfriend).

 Ultiville: What do you mean the box is incomplete? While it doesn't give players enough product in one box to create custom Warbands, it does meet the minimum requirements to play the game. It's as complete as a Magic the Gathering starter deck, at least as near as I can figure.
    
It's not really fair to compare buying an ultimate set of DC compared to the $12 MtG Starter set. Of course, the starter set for DC is a little bit more (msrp 40 something, internet price 20 something), but it's not the $100-200 up front cost that we're talking about. 

That value buys you an entire set, allowing you to build the most competitive decks possible.

To date myself a little, when I was last playing MtG Tooth and Nail was the new hot strat. In order to stock your deck with the 4 you needed, you could either buy boosters (hundreds, possibily thousands of dollars), or you could buy 4 of them online for $50-100 each.

I fail to see how cost is even a consideration here.  
Side Note: Doing a quick check on Auggie I did a brief math check. It would cost about as much to buy a whole new starter box as it would to buy the Order Cards and the Minuatures as individual pieces; if I was to try and purchase them in quantities that match the starter box that is.



I expect the owner to be compensated for his time in breaking up the sets and listing the parts individually. I think the prices are on the cheap side, actually.
 
I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer. 



The supply is much more limited now than it was initially. I suspect they broke up a number of boxes in the beginning (around 100 of each kind it looks like), to test the market.

As much as we think that the company WOTC are there for they love of the game, it ain't.  If the product does not make money (or predicted to make money) itwon't get made.



Conversely, if you don't love what you do, it's usually makes it a lot harder to make money.




It is possible to love what you do AND realize you need to make a profit in order to continue doing it. I'm sure almost everyone at WotC would do thier job for free. The problem is, broke people can't do squat, folks.

So quit hating on them for trying to find a way to make miniatures that is actually profitable. I'd rather buy miniatures and make WotC rich than have no miniatures. 
Also, to the original poster, have you considered trading minis with friends or splitting boxes? Are you seriously going to play with all 240 plastic dudes? Because if you are, then suck it up and pay for it.
 Hreth: first point, it's not about compensating the store owner for breaking up the boxes. I realize that individual items are usually more expensive than purchasing a set as a whole. The same holds true for virtually any product. It costs more to buy sixty individual cards online for Magic the Gathering than it would to buy five booster packs, but buying them individually allows you to pick and choose which cards you get and it actually cheaper in the long run than buying a ton of booster packs and hoping you get the cards you want. 
 I mentioned not because I was against it, but because at this stage of the game it's probably more cost effective to buy a second starter box than to buy individual pieces online. After the second box, since I will have the cap of 4 of certain minatures and cards, it would become more cost effective to begin buying individual cards/minatures online.
 This of course depends on what exactly my planned Warband will be, but at this point it's sort of not important as I really can't afford to justify buying more than one box a month and Tyranny of Goblins comes out in a couple weeks. 
 Of course I do have some birthday money lying around ....
 No, no, I was planning on buying a Drop Kick Murphy's CD with that.

  Second Point, I figured as much; however that does not stop me from being a little disappointed with the limited choices at the present time. By the time I'm ready to start buying cards and miniatures online the supply will hopefully be a little better. 

 swilde23: While the costs are not the same, I was comparing them based on the model at which you could set yourself up. Magic the Gathering, while potentially costing more money, allows you as the consumer to decide how best to make yourself competitive. Starter pre-made decks, booster packs, deck building kits, fat packs. It allows you to buy cards according to your needs and budget, albeit within certain pre-decided constraints set by how the game products are designed and packaged.
 I compared this to Dungeon Command in it's current state where there is basically only one means by which players can customize their Warbands: Buying more starter sets. Yes, you could probably do fairly well with just two full starter sets, but because it's the only option in town I find it rather more restrictive than I would like, and (in my opinion) short sighted on WotC's part.

 Fallen_Star_02: No, I do not plan on playing with 240 minatures. Who has the time?
 I used it as an extreme example of what would be required for someone who had designed a Warband that managed to use something from every box, and each box only had 1 of the particular item the player needed. Extreme yes, but also plausible considering how the starter boxes are designed.  
 As for trading and splitting costs, I'm still in the process of trying to get my friends to play. Our group only gets together once a month and I only had Heart of Cormyr for our last session. Now that I also have Sting of Lolth I'm going to bring them to our September geek fest and see if I can interest them. If not, I'll probably still keep buying one of each starter set because they're still useful as expansion packs for the Adventure games (WoA, CR, and LoD), but I won't buy them competitively to try to build a workable custom Warband beyond what can be done with just the base starter sets.  
Yeah, relying on 3rd party distribution on singles is the only real issue I have with DC.



I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer. 



They do sell those; the rare stuff just sells out really fast.  



Has anyone else seen other sites selling singles?  I love what Auggies is doing and their prices are fantastic, but they do sell out far faster than I can keep checking for the pieces I want.

I cracked some for my store; if you have a local community it doesn't take a ton of people to make it worth doing.  You might try talking to them, if you have one.  I only knew it was worth doing because I picked up the game, but people might well buy them to have D&D minis or whatever.
Yeah, relying on 3rd party distribution on singles is the only real issue I have with DC.



I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer. 



They do sell those; the rare stuff just sells out really fast.  



Has anyone else seen other sites selling singles?  I love what Auggies is doing and their prices are fantastic, but they do sell out far faster than I can keep checking for the pieces I want.




CoolStuffInc sells the minis as well. Auggies usually restocks every two weeks or so; for the larger creatures, you really don't need more than two in a warband.
Another reason for a lack of planned booster decks might be because Dungeon Command was designed specifically to sell miniatures.
CoolStuffInc sells the minis as well. Auggies usually restocks every two weeks or so; for the larger creatures, you really don't need more than two in a warband.




 Thanks, the more placed I have to shop the more likely I will be able to find what I'm looking for. ;)
  

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