Optimized warlock

I have read at other forums than warlocks are sub-par to the other classes and blah blah blah... 

But I think the warlocks have very cool abilities, the only thing that dumped warlocks was the 1st level pact, that quotes that you have adventage with charisma interactions but only for creatures with less hit points that your warlock.

This stinks unless you have a lot of hit points... but here is a warlock with a lot of hit points

www.dropbox.com/s/jqnws79dy9mqk4e/Angrim...

I must to be honest, I have only played this character in diplomatic situations, and obviously there is king... but I think he has very good stats, my only problem is his low AC

And I don't know if is a better idea to optimi~e his constitution or his charisma (I vote for charisma but I want your opinions)

Suggestions, questions? Let's go...
Visage of summer court is very very cool, make a meeting with all the town's people and have fun Cool
Where did you see it called 'subpar' - just the other day people were calling it OP....


With a ranged attack that makes it tied with the fighter in at-will damage output, without even using any of their encounter powers, it's hardly 'subpar'.  You sure they weren't talking about the warlock from an earlier edition?

Carl
With a ranged attack that makes it tied with the fighter in at-will damage output

3d6 deals 10.5 average damage.  A fighter can deal 1d8+4 with a one hander (8.5) and add 1d6 on top of that for Deadly Strike, which means 12 average damage.  If the Fighter has a two-hander, he can deal 10.5 without Deadly Strike, and 14 with it.  Even at level 3, the warlock catches up and deals 14 average, but the Fighter stays ahead at 15 thanks to the d8 Expertise die.

The Fighter also has 4 more HP, and unless the Warlock is a Mountain Dwarf (a thoroughly subpar choice), the Fighter also has at least 3 more AC--probably 4 or 5 due to Chainmail and the possibility of a shield vs. the Warlock's leather and +1, or maybe +2 if human Dex mod.

without even using any of their encounter powers, it's hardly 'subpar'.  You sure they weren't talking about the warlock from an earlier edition?

Which is the awesome encounter power again?  Turning off the lights against enemies that nearly universally have Darkvision or blindsight?  Spending an action to take half damage, avoid AoOs, or teleport?

The Warlock has awesome utility--rituals are great, the charms are great, and Fabrication of the Weave is downright enviable in its awesomeness.  However, in combat, yeah, they're definitely subpar, sorry.     

With a ranged attack that makes it tied with the fighter in at-will damage output

3d6 deals 10.5 average damage.  A fighter can deal 1d8+4 with a one hander (8.5) and add 1d6 on top of that for Deadly Strike, which means 12 average damage.  If the Fighter has a two-hander, he can deal 10.5 without Deadly Strike, and 14 with it.  Even at level 3, the warlock catches up and deals 14 average, but the Fighter stays ahead at 15 thanks to the d8 Expertise die.

The Fighter also has 4 more HP, and unless the Warlock is a Mountain Dwarf (a thoroughly subpar choice), the Fighter also has at least 3 more AC--probably 4 or 5 due to Chainmail and the possibility of a shield vs. the Warlock's leather and +1, or maybe +2 if human Dex mod.



True - but the warlock can hang out around the corner and just step out and shoot from 50 feet away.  The fighter has to put himself in harms way.  That is worth at least any AC difference. 



without even using any of their encounter powers, it's hardly 'subpar'.  You sure they weren't talking about the warlock from an earlier edition?

Which is the awesome encounter power again?  Turning off the lights against enemies that nearly universally have Darkvision or blindsight?  Spending an action to take half damage, avoid AoOs, or teleport?




Um, well there is the cone attack that does 2d6 - 2d8 at L3+ - thunder damage (half on a save).    If you assume (as most have on these forums) three targets in a cone attack on average that's pretty nice - especially when you consider that the average damage at L3 would kill 1/3 of the monsters in the Bestiary.



The Warlock has awesome utility--rituals are great, the charms are great, and Fabrication of the Weave is downright enviable in its awesomeness.  However, in combat, yeah, they're definitely subpar, sorry.     




I disagree.  Although I don't think they are OP (I reserve that designation for the thug rogue) I do not think they are remoatly subpar.     

Granted they aren't quite 'tied' with the fighter in pure one-on-one damage dealing (as I had stated).  The fighter is ahead by a whole point of damage at L3 (Ok, technically a bit more than a half-point when you consider hit frequency).  But the fighter is the premier damage dealer in one - on -one combat (ignoring the Thug rogue), the fighter lacks an area attack and the fighter lacks the utility powers (on the other hand, the fighter has the other uses of the expertise die).

Doing one point (or a fraction of a point) less damage does not, in any way, make a class 'subpar'.  Especially when the  class has additional, useful abilities - including abilities (some 'enviable in [their] awesomeness')  that allow them to do significantly more damage under the right circumstances (circumstances as common as facing multiple opponents).  

Carl

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