[3.5] Returning 4e player and need clerical help

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First, I still love my 4e games. But the only group I found out to play is playing 3.5, so I need to adapt. 


Second, about 5 years ago, I deleted from my brain all info I had on 3.5 optimization. So, now I need to join a high level group with no idea how to start building my cleric. Any help would be useful. Now, further info about the request:



  • Abilities were rolled. I got a 16/16/16/14/10/10.

  • 19th level. Must be a cleric, or divine caster (Favored Soul or Archivist). The group is lacking a divine caster. Personally, I would prefer a Cleric for turns and spell versatility over FS, and the ability to consult the class table offline over archivist. Of course, prestige classes are allowed.

  • Full casting capability is a must. 

  • While the table is very open about what is permitted, I would like to stay with Core (no XPH and no UA), Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, since I own those books, and is easier to consult on table. 

  • I would prefer that the build would be a primary caster. I know clerics can become melee powerhouses, but I want to play more on the buff-healing-blasting role than smack-it-with-a-big-weapon role. 

  • Not going on Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell way for personal reasons. Other Divine metas are allowed. 


Any help would be appreciated. I have literally no idea where to start on this one. 

[<()>]Proud Brazilian. Typos are free bonuses. 

I suggest reading this.


If you start with 9 levels in contemplative, which gives you eternal body, would your DM let you start as venerable for +3 to all mental stats?

Cleric 19. Wis >Cha > Con > Str >Dex > Int. I recomend cloistered variant from unearthed arcana. Take any prestige class that happens to give full casting. 

Flipping through complete divine, I'd recomend this exact build, but changing anything won't hurt.

Cleric 5 / Church Inquisitor 5/ Contemplative 7/ Divine Oracle 2

 Radiant Servant of Pelor isn't bad, but is tied to Pelor and the sun domain, which can hinder you. 

My basic tactic is to snatch up as many domains as you can and enjoy a wide range of spell options and domain powers. IIRC this build gets 6.  Changing up the exact levels in the prestige classes isn't a bad idea, and you can kind of match them to suit where you want to focus. This order gives you a lot of immunites, and utility abilities aside from spells which can be fun. 

If starting at 19th level, and your DM is cool with it, you can be an older contemplative and ditch the divine oracle levels. This will give you Eternal Body, so you don't age like described by Maat.

Your feats are basically only used to enter prestige classes.

Cloistered cleric is open game content and can be found here.
www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia... 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Cloistered Cleric is UA, no UA was a clause. It's good advice, just advice he asked not to get. Still, a very good build that can do well... a lot of things. Changing out to regular cleric drops you to 5 domains, and you only lose Knowledge, that's not bad.
Cloistered Cleric is UA, no UA was a clause. It's good advice, just advice he asked not to get. Still, a very good build that can do well... a lot of things. Changing out to regular cleric drops you to 5 domains, and you only lose Knowledge, that's not bad.


Look at his reasoning. I linked to the content and explained that it was free and easily accessable. Print it out and you are golden.  I also mentioned that it was a recomendation and suggestion. Removing it leaves the build 100% in tact. 




  • While the table is very open about what is permitted, I would like to stay with Core (no XPH and no UA), Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, since I own those books, and is easier to consult on table. 


 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

 

I suggest reading this.




Great guide, and very informative. Thank you. 




I recomend cloistered variant from unearthed arcana. Take any prestige class that happens to give full casting.


Many people tell me to get the cloistered variant. I can understand how the d6 hit die isn't that bad, and how you can handle the low BAB with Divine Power. But losing shield and armor proficiency for one domain don't hinder you too hard? Honest question. 


 

Flipping through complete divine, I'd recomend this exact build, but changing anything won't hurt.

Cleric 5 / Church Inquisitor 5/ Contemplative 7/ Divine Oracle 2

 Radiant Servant of Pelor isn't bad, but is tied to Pelor and the sun domain, which can hinder you. 


My basic tactic is to snatch up as many domains as you can and enjoy a wide range of spell options and domain powers. IIRC this build gets 6.  Changing up the exact levels in the prestige classes isn't a bad idea, and you can kind of match them to suit where you want to focus. This order gives you a lot of immunites, and utility abilities aside from spells which can be fun.



Awesome combination. And a great starting point. I can twink from there. Thank you. 


 
 If starting at 19th level, and your DM is cool with it, you can be an older contemplative and ditch the divine oracle levels. This will give you Eternal Body, so you don't age like described by Maat.

I'm not a big fan of the aging mechanic, but I'll go consult the DM. Some of the other characters in the group aren't exactly younger protagonists anymore. Also, the old sage figure is always a great background. 

[<()>]Proud Brazilian. Typos are free bonuses. 

I find cloistered cleric can be a hinderance at levels 1-3, but after that its no hinderance at all. Especially if you don't want to do melee or cast divine power. Mithril Full Plate is medium armor, so you are good to go. 

 Not my link on the guide, but I second it.

I don't like aging mechanics either, I find them too cheesey. Some people love them, and it is an optimization request so its worth pointing out.  

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Quick questions, the Knowledge domain "class skills" is only for cleric levels, or PrC levels too?


I'm thinking into Cleric 3/Inquisitor 5/Oracle 2/Contemplative 10, without aging cheese (so, no reason to put contemplative frontloaded), and a 14 int. But the skill list of the PrCs are lacking a lot of knowledge skills. I remember that there was a feat that allow you to trat any skill from any class you have as a class skill. This can be taken if needed. 


What is better: Divine Metamagic Quicken, or a stack of quicken (level 6) metamagic rod? Using it primarly for mass buffs and quickened Heals. Going DM would require the base meta, plus extra turnings (not stacking nightsticks for the same reason I'm not using persistent). Going metamagic rod would require quick draw. 


Mithril Full Plate is medium armor, so you are good to go.


But Cloistered is proficient with light armor, not medium. 

[<()>]Proud Brazilian. Typos are free bonuses. 

Knowledge is only class skills for cleric levels. 

 IIRC that feat you are talking about is in races of destiny, but I could be wrong. 

Good catch on armor. Mithril Breastplate then? Its a 3 AC difference which isn't huge. Especially if you plan to stay out of melee. 

DMM quicken or a stack of rods? I prefer the rods if you aren't taking persist. It frees up a lot of feats that I generally only find worth it for Persist. Especially if you need them to get in prestige classes. I generally see $$ is less important than Feat slots. You can always find more loot. you only get 7 or so feats.  

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

For a caster cleric, a Cloistered Cleric with the Madness domain would be pretty awesome.

Incidentally, if you aren't planning on (ab)using Divine feats for anything, you can still be a viable Cleric by dumping Cha and forgetting Turning. There are a lot of nice things which can be done aside from DMM Persist, though.

Incidentally, if you aren't planning on (ab)using Divine feats for anything, you can still be a viable Cleric by dumping Cha and forgetting Turning. There are a lot of nice things which can be done aside from DMM Persist, though.


Oh, I will use divine feats. Persistent spell is the only thing I'm avoiding because I think it is too cheesy. 


Right now, I'm planning to have DMM (Reach Spell). With a base 16 Cha, I can save someone with a quickened Heal out of my reach twice per day (3 times if I have enough money left to get a +6 cha item). My turning tempts, going as a level 3~5 cleric, will not work on anything remotelly dangerous to me. 


BTW, I found out the feat I was talking about: Able Learner. Was going fine on the planning, until I noticed that Divine Oracle and Contemplative both have only 2+int skills per level. Sigh. I hate 3e skill system. 

[<()>]Proud Brazilian. Typos are free bonuses. 

If you want medium armor proficiency, you could always fit in Seeker of the Misty Isle if you're open to being elven or half-elven.  It adds the Travel domain, which is excellent and has 6 skill points per level, 2 good saves (including Reflex, which will mesh well with prescient sense), and 3/4ths BAB.  It is effectively a 4 level class since it loses a caster level at 5th, but it's a nice class as a whole and fairly easy to qualify for-- the Survival ranks are the most difficult part.  The easiest method of doing that is actually picking up the Travel domain in the first place, but you would need to check with your DM to see if you can select another domain if you already have Travel.

Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 5/Divine Oracle 2/Contemplate 7/Seeker of the Misty Isle 3 would be decent (or just Contemplative 9/Seeker of the Misty Isle 1 if you don't care about skill points).
DMM Reach is quite nice given the number of nice touch spells you have, especially if you don't want to get in melee or have a high Str. The lower BAB of the Cloistered Cleric is a bit of an annoyance, but you're no worse off than a wizard.
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