DM's rule in DNDNext

While I really like the (dis)advantage mechanic as something you can give out to players since its a fun and really easy to feel good about thing that increases odds when players do creative/fun things.

The problem with this is that too many things already grant (dis)advantage.  This means that players utilizing some class feature/speciality they aren't able to really be rewarded using the DM's rule.

Are there other things we can do to improve players instead of advantage so we could save this for DMs rule type stuff? Or vice versa?  I really like not having all the modifiers like we had in earlier editions, so I'd rather not have to go back to the +2/-2 DMs rule.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
That is a valid point.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

You could always lower the DC i guess.
You could always lower the DC i guess.


I thought about this, but it essentially serves the same as +2/-2 of changing modifiers, and doesn't work in contests.

I would even go with minimum die rolls, (so hey you can't botch that awesome speach you just gave) but the problem there is that DND is very much a binary result (you succeed or you fail).  Minimum dies would work well if there were degrees of success as the core mechanic, but that would take a lot of work to change. (although I think it would make a better game)

 Please keep the ideas coming.  I think even if we don't find something I love, the suggestions could be really helpful to anyone happening by this page.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
I don't see the problem...

If something forces disadvantage on a player and you want to reward him/her as a DM for whatever reason, simply negate the disadvantage.  If you want to penalize a player as the DM for whatever reason and he/she already has advantage, negate it.  I assume you have a good reason, but other than that thorny issue, what's the problem here?
The following comes readily to mind - Degrees of success or failure, increasing duration of (dis)advantage, extending (dis)advantage to others, environmental effects, increased/decreased xp awards, alternate treasure.
I don't see the problem...

If something forces disadvantage on a player and you want to reward him/her as a DM for whatever reason, simply negate the disadvantage.  If you want to penalize a player as the DM for whatever reason and he/she already has advantage, negate it.  I assume you have a good reason, but other than that thorny issue, what's the problem here?



That wasn't the problem.  The issue is what if you want to reward a player who already has advantage, or penalize a player who already has disadvantage?

Your above suggestions work great for their cases however. 
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
The following comes readily to mind - Degrees of success or failure, increasing duration of (dis)advantage, extending (dis)advantage to others, environmental effects, increased/decreased xp awards, alternate treasure.


Bolded my favorites -great ideas =)

Another option is minimum die rolls (probably 10)- thus the player who gave the rousing speech can't critically fail it, and is pretty much guaranteed a success (but he could critically succeed).
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
On a less calculationy side- instead of minimum die rolls, we could use minimum results- thus if you have a minimum of 10 you take your combined total or 10 whichever is higher.  Since 10 satisifes the lowest DC its definately a success in those cases and never a critical failure.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
You could use both die results.

Fail both and it's outright failure with consequences.

Fail one succeed on the other and it is a wash. You don't succeed but you avoid any negative repercussion. (when disadvantaged)

Fail one and succeed on the other and you succeed but only narrowly. You receive no additional benefit. ( when advantaged)

Succeed on both and you gain additional benefit beyond base success.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

1) I like advantage/ disadvantage.

2) Players generally like looking for lots of little ways they can get small bonuses here and there.  It's part of what they do - and designing feats, class abilities and spells to give such bonuses is how a lot of design space is filled.

3) I dislike dealing with lots of little bonuses, keeping track of them, adding them together, etc.

Proposal  - modeled in some ways after advantgage, but applied in a different way::


Small bonuses and penalties do not apply numerical bonuses and penalties to the die roll or DC.  Rather, they are modeled as bonus dice or penalty dice.  These are typically a d4. 

The player rolls however many bonus dice or penalty dice as are appropriate (and they cancel each other out so any roll will only have one type or another) - and applies the highest roll as a bonus or penalty to their attack.

Lets say that the I am attacking someone who is a) behind half-cover, b) prone and c) I am under the effect of a Bane spell. As it currently stands, that would be a bonus of +2 to the target's AC (half cover) and I would have a penalty of -3 (-2 for prone, -1 for Bane) for a net modifier of -5.

But what if instead we just model all of these as a penalty die.  Now I just grab my d20, toss in a penalty die for prone, a penalty die for the cover and a penalty die for the Bane and roll them all.  Picking the largest of the penalty dice (A '3' for example) I subtract 3 from my roll and check to see if I hit.  If my cleric cast a Bless before my attack (giving me a bonus die) that would cancel out one of the penalty dice leaving me with two penalty dice on the roll.

No addition.  No need to recall whether Bane is a +1 or a +2, no issues of remembering what stacks and what doesn't - and no need for addition - just grab the larget die.

It ought to play more quickly than using lots of small bonuses.

And it doesn't fracture bounded accuracy nearly as badly as the modifier is restircted to a +4 (maybe +6 if larger dice are called for - as in with 3/4 cover) - the possibility of multiple bonuses making attacks automatic or multiple bonuses making hits impossiblel does not occur - and yet there is a real advantage to having mulitple bonuses and penalties (greater chance of that maximum bonus/ penalty).

Besides - it's always more fun to roll lots of dice than it is to add numbers together.

Carl
Interesting solution Carl.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

Personally I'd either just give a flat bonus on top of Advantage, or allow the player to roll more than just two d20's.  I'd be careful with this, and it would really depend on how generous you are with Advantage and/or how often the players are doing this, but I don't think rolling 3 or even 4d20 on occasion and taking the best would slow the game down particularly much.
 Now I just grab my d20, toss in a penalty die for prone, a penalty die for the cover and a penalty die for the Bane and roll them all.  Picking the largest of the penalty dice (A '3' for example) I subtract 3 from my roll and check to see if I hit.  If my cleric cast a Bless before my attack (giving me a bonus die) that would cancel out one of the penalty dice leaving me with two penalty dice on the roll.

...

Besides - it's always more fun to roll lots of dice than it is to add numbers together.

Carl


Holy crap thats great! Are you thinking d4s as the die for penalty/bonuses?
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
Yeah, Carl I may just house rule that it, it's pretty interesting. and Rolling your bonus and/or penalty sounds fun for players.

I still like Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic. If you give a rousing speech in RL as a DM I'd give you advantage so it's harder for you to mess it up with Dice rolls. But I take a bad roll as, I knew what I wanted to do I just screwed up execution. So on the off chance your advantage rolls a 1 and a 2 respectively, than sorry you just messed it up. 
 But I take a bad roll as, I knew what I wanted to do I just screwed up execution. So on the off chance your advantage rolls a 1 and a 2 respectively, than sorry you just messed it up. 


Since that can be frustrating to the players- I try to convey that bad rolls are bad luck.  It isn't necessarily that the player comically botched the action- but there are many other factors beyond their control. (which is why the d20 is rollled) A 1 or 2 in that case can mean your speech was flawless, but some rabblerousers in the crowd is able to quickly turn them back and twist your words to empower the opposite of what you were trying to say. The crowd applauds you but has confused what you were saying, any future attempts to push your actual intention will now seem like betrayal.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
Sometimes I like to roll stuff like Diplomacy before I act it out.  To be fair, that sort of thing is easy for me.  I can usually figure out what to say and the best way to say it (it's also why from time to time I purposefully don't play 'face' characters).  Anyhoo, in these cases rolling bad is still pretty awesome.  If I brick the roll, I get to act out how a usually well spoken, charismatic character screwed up a conversation.  And dood?  That can get downright funny. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

I don't see the problem...

If something forces disadvantage on a player and you want to reward him/her as a DM for whatever reason, simply negate the disadvantage.  If you want to penalize a player as the DM for whatever reason and he/she already has advantage, negate it.  I assume you have a good reason, but other than that thorny issue, what's the problem here?



That wasn't the problem.  The issue is what if you want to reward a player who already has advantage, or penalize a player who already has disadvantage?

Your above suggestions work great for their cases however. 


Ah, I misunderstood...

I was going to suggest then, something similar to what Carl proposed - using a die as bonus/penalty on top of the advantage/disadvantage.  Anything from a d2, d3, d4, d5, or d6.  I don't think modifiers outside of that range are a good idea.
I was going to suggest then, something similar to what Carl proposed - using a die as bonus/penalty on top of the advantage/disadvantage.  Anything from a d2, d3, d4, d5, or d6.  I don't think modifiers outside of that range are a good idea.


Agreed i think a d4 is good, it has the +2/-2 feel but empowers the player rolling the die.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
This is a great idea!