Is my fighter living up to his potential?

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I'm new to D&D and I'm afraid my level 7 half-orc fighter isn't living up to his full potential. Right now he has an AC of 23: 10 (magic full-plate) + 2 (shield) + 1 (dex) + 10 (base). I have a damage bonus of 6: 4 (str mod) + 2 (magic longsword). I have an attack bonus of 13 on my first attack: 7 (base attack) + 4 (str mod) + 2 (magic longsword). PLEASE tell me if I'm forgetting to add any modifiers!

My feats:
Juggernaut - become Large size
Power Attack - subtract base attack bonus and add it to damage (optional)
Cleave - if your opponent dies, attack another enemy
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
Weapon Focus (bastard sword) - +1 bastard sword attack bonus
Great Cleave - unlimited Cleave usage

I know I should not have Juggernaut or either of my bastard sword feats since Juggernaut isn't that useful and I don't use a bastard sword anymore, but my DM is making me follow the retraining rules from the PHBII which I don't really understand. If someone could summarize the feat retraining process that would be great.

I have 76 HP. My stats are:

Str - 19 (+4)
Dex - 13 (+1)
Con - 16 (+3)
Int - 9 (-1)
Wis - 12 (+1)
Cha - 9 (-1)

My PRIMARY goal is to maximize my AC and become better at forcing monsters to attack me instead of my other party members. I'm not a very effective tank right now since the monsters don't always focus on me and when they do, I often die quickly.

My SECONDARY goal is to maximize damage output.

What should I do differently?
If you're allowed to, start taking Crusader (ToB) levels, you can get an ability at level 2 called Thicket of Blades. It prevents opponents from moving near you (even tumbling and 5' steps) without taking an attack of opportunity. Crusader will make you WORLDS tougher as well with maneuvers that let you heal, and a class feature that lets you delay some damage until future turns.

That will help you accomlish goal number 1. Your AC won't go up really but your durability will skyrocket and you'll be able to use Iron Guards Glare (-4 to attack rolls for opponents you threaten, vs any of your allies aside from yourself) and Thicket of Blades to force opponents to attack you.

For goal two, there are some VERY solid maneuvers in the Crusader class's options (See The Heavy Crusader).

The go-to way of keeping monsters from attacking your party members is to prevent movement, usually by making trip attempts on attacks of opportunity provoked by movement.


As a “quick fix” for dying when monsters turn their attention to you, you could seek out someone to cast mineralize warrior (Underdark) on you. That spell gives you the mineral warrior template (Underdark), which gives you DR 8/adamantine, among other things. Note that this takes up a level, but the spell is instantaneous, so you don't need to worry about dispel or anything. Ideally, getting the spell cast would be a plot thing and not something you have to pay for, since you're already “paying” for it with a level.


Where's juggernaut from?

Are you attacking armies?

No? then get rid of cleave and great cleave. You simply aren't going to be in situations enough where it comes in useful.

Replace with Combat Reflexes and Improved Bull Rush so you can take Shock Trooper and deliver a massive  attack on a charge.  Then seriously consider taking the Dungeon Crasher feats to use with your strength, size and improved Bull Rush abilities.

If you can grab Leap Attack, you can double your Power Attack damage. With two levels of Barbarian, you can get Pounce and Full Attack on a charge.  Two more feats OR Crusader levels can get you Thicket of Blades, and nobody can pass you by without eating on AoO instead.

Remember you have a bastard sword, and you should be switching between two handed and one handed/shield use as the situation warrants it.

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you

If u want to mainly protect Your Party, take up a spiked chain, and go the Trip way. You search Trip fighter in either the forum or google and you will get some solid builds. If u want to go the DMG way, go like aelryinth said, for Pounce and a Charge damage build.



For the Retrainment rules: Each new level you get you can change 1 aspect in your situation 1 feat per level. YOu can change out the Feat only for another feet you met the pre on the level you took the originial feet. Let's say you took Great Cleave on level 6. And now on lvl 8 you want to change it to another. You cannot change Gleave yt, because Gleave is a Pre for Great Gleave, so you first have to Change away GG. Instead of GG you can now take a feat, for which you met the pre on lvl 6. So you cannot change it for a feat, that for example needs BAB+8, cause at lvl 6 you hadnt that enough BAB.



Sadly, with your Int in the toilet, tripping isn't as good an option as it would other wise be.  You can't qualify for Improved Trip, which you don't need with certain weapons, but it does give you a +4 to your attempt and an extra attack.  Your best bet to get this would be two levels of Wolf Totem Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana)... with the first level being Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion Cheatyface.  It's weird, but it's legal, and gives you both Pounce and Improved Trip.  If your DM won't let you (and I wouldn't really blame him if he didn't), go the straight Ubercharger route.
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I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
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My feats:
Juggernaut - become Large size
Power Attack - subtract base attack bonus and add it to damage (optional)
Cleave - if your opponent dies, attack another enemy
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
Weapon Focus (bastard sword) - +1 bastard sword attack bonus
Great Cleave - unlimited Cleave usage

I know I should not have Juggernaut or either of my bastard sword feats since Juggernaut isn't that useful and I don't use a bastard sword anymore, but my DM is making me follow the retraining rules from the PHBII which I don't really understand. If someone could summarize the feat retraining process that would be great.

I'm not entirely familiar with this Juggernaut feat but as a warrior becoming Large sized is often seen as an advantage.  It should give you a longer natural reach (2 squares instead of 1) and lets you wield larger weapons with their larger damage dice.  It also gives you size bonuses on certain things.

Looking at your list of feats it's the last four that give me pause.  Exotic Weapon Proficiency (and the Weapon focus with it) is rarely worth it for the slight increase it damage a Bastard Sword has over a longsword.  Remember that you can still use a longsword with two hands for the additional damage and save a feat for the point or two of average damage.  Weapon Focus (BS) is just a victim of the weapon selected but you also need to consider the value of the additional +1 attack.  Cleave and Great Cleave are rarely useful following the RAW because how often do you actually get the chance to strike down one target and then have another in range and be able to strike it down as well?  I interpret (houserule) Cleave a little bit differently which can let it stand in for Combat Reflexes (my HR is that if you get a Cleave opportunity you instead get back the attack that triggered it) but that is far from universal.

I'm new to D&D and I'm afraid my level 7 half-orc fighter isn't living up to his full potential. Right now he has an AC of 23: 10 (magic full-plate) + 2 (shield) + 1 (dex) + 10 (base). I have a damage bonus of 6: 4 (str mod) + 2 (magic longsword). I have an attack bonus of 13 on my first attack: 7 (base attack) + 4 (str mod) + 2 (magic longsword). PLEASE tell me if I'm forgetting to add any modifiers!


You're a level 7 fighter. Chances are the answer to your thread question is "no". It's very hard to make a fighter with an odd number of fighter levels, and it's also quite hard to go beyond level 6 (and even then, that typically relies on Dungeon Crasher).

You have a very good set of gear for your level, I will say - 7th level characters can typically expect +1 weapons and +1 or +2 armor depending on how much else they're using. However, your character is not your gear. (You can also leave out the numbers; generally speaking it's easy to derive them from a build.)

My feats:
Juggernaut - become Large size
Power Attack - subtract base attack bonus and add it to damage (optional)
Cleave - if your opponent dies, attack another enemy
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
Weapon Focus (bastard sword) - +1 bastard sword attack bonus
Great Cleave - unlimited Cleave usage



"Juggernaut" doesn't exist in 3.5 material; the closest feat I can think of is Jotenbrud, which (I suppose...) has a name that might be difficult to remember. It's also a 1st level feat with an ability similar to what you describe, but it isn't actually becoming Large. Thing is, it's a Human-only feat.

...There IS a third-party orc feat that does what you're saying, but a size increase for a feat without prereqs is far too much bang for a feat buck. The thing with size isn't that you use more damaging weapons - it's that you have reach. However, you're using a longsword and have feats for a bastard sword; neither of these capitalize on your reach. You should, at the very least, be using a weapon capable of tripping, and ideally you should be using a weapon with reach itself (so you can hit things 20' away and knock them down before they have a chance to get close to you, or slip past you to reach your allies).

There are two things fighter feats work really well for - AoO tanking ("lockdowns") and dishing out a lot of damage on a charge ("ubercharging"). You're built for neither of these things. Switch towards one or the other and you'll see your effectiveness skyrocket.

Typical Lockdown feats include Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Stand Still (XPH, but not a psionic feat), and anything that generates extra AoO chances (examples include Mage Slayer (CArc), Karmic Strike (CW), Robilar's Gambit (PHB2), Hold the Line (CW), and Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades (ToB)). Your Intelligence isn't high enough for Improved Trip, which helps this approach a lot but you can get by without it. Lockdowns use reach weapons; if they aren't using spiked chains (i.e. they're using their feats in other areas) they typically use guisarmes.

Typical Ubercharging feats include Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Leap Attack (CAdv), Shock Trooper (CW), and any method of getting Pounce (typically one level of Barbarian with the Lion Totem ability from Complete Champion; barbarian is half-orc favored, so it'll fit in well). From here you look for anything to multiply your damage or remove restrictions on how you charge. Examples include Martial Study: any of the White Raven charges (ToB) and, since you're a half-orc, Headlong Rush (PGtF, I think; it's certainly a Faerun book) is a definite possibility. The Twisted Charge and Nimble Charge skill tricks are a definite yes to this approach. Uberchargers just need a good two-handed weapon; it's hard to do better than the regular ol' greatsword for this approach. (Since you get most of your damage from Power Attack, though, a slightly weaker weapon with a higher critical hit rate can be better. Falchions are my favorite here.)

Given your ability scores, and that you're a half-orc, ubercharging will probably be more effective for you.

I know I should not have Juggernaut or either of my bastard sword feats since Juggernaut isn't that useful and I don't use a bastard sword anymore, but my DM is making me follow the retraining rules from the PHBII which I don't really understand. If someone could summarize the feat retraining process that would be great.


The nutshell retraining is simple: Whenever you level up, you can exchange one legal choice (and only one legal choice) for another choice that would have been legal at the level you picked it. This change can't invalidate any other aspect of your character (i.e. you can't switch Weapon Focus to a weapon you aren't proficient in, but you could switch Weapon Focus for Improved Bull Rush or Combat Reflexes). That's really it.
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Str - 19 (+4)
Dex - 13 (+1)
Con - 16 (+3)
Int - 9 (-1)
Wis - 12 (+1)
Cha - 9 (-1)

My PRIMARY goal is to maximize my AC and become better at forcing monsters to attack me instead of my other party members. I'm not a very effective tank right now since the monsters don't always focus on me and when they do, I often die quickly.

My SECONDARY goal is to maximize damage output.

What should I do differently?


Your ability scores do not lend themselves well to tanking - you have +1 Dexterity and less than 13 Intelligence. Tanking and focusing attention to you is all about the attack of opportunity and denying opponents actions.

That said, if you wish, take Fighter 8 (no reason not to at this point...) and then start levelling as a Crusader immediately. They can make even nonspecialists able to defend others with great ability. Emphasize Devoted Spirit and splash White Raven; grab the Defensive Rebuke boost as soon as you can, and use the Iron Guard's Glare and Thicket of Blades stances (Fighter 8 / Crusader 2 gets Thicket at 10th). Use a reach weapon (spiked chain ideally, glaive or guisarme if you want to save the feat; if so, spike your armor to cover your natural reach).

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

To be more succinct...if you want to stop creatures from attacking your party, read the Lockdown build in my sig, and look at the other builds I have connections to, some of which combine with Ubercharger (you really don't need the weapon spec tree if you have high enough Str).

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Thank you all very much for your extremely helpful advice and insight! I've decided to drop tanking and go full-on Ubercharger. I've written down all the feats everyone mentioned for charging. Please tell me if I'm missing any:


Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Leap Attack
Shock Trooper
any of the White Raven charges
Headlong Rush
Twisted Charge
Nimble Charge
Dungeon Crasher
Thicket of Blades
Pounce

P.S. The DM allows us to take Pathfinder feats from the D&D Wiki. That's where Juggernaut is from. (Sorry I forget to mention it before.) 




The thing is, these aren't all feats.


Power Attack - Feat, Player's Handbook
Improved Bull Rush - Feat, Player's Handbook
Leap Attack - Feat, Complete Adventurer
Shock Trooper -Tactical feat, Complete Warrior (you want the Heedless Charge maneuver)
any of the White Raven charges - Maneuvers can be learned via Martial Study or a dip in any of the martial classes. A warblade or crusader dip can be quite useful for uberchargers due to getting the Leading the Charge stance for free as well.
Headlong Rush - Feat, one of the Faerun books. 
Twisted Charge - Skill trick, Complete Scoundrel
Nimble Charge - Skill trick, Complete Scoundrel
Dungeon Crasher - Alternate class feature, Dungeonscape; note that this works best with Knockback (Feat, Races of Stone), which requires Large size, and that a few of your other options get size benefits too, so you may want to keep Juggernaut.
Thicket of Blades - Stance, Tome of Battle. This is more for AoO tanks, but you can get it (along with Leading the Charge and a White Raven charge strike) with a two-level Crusader dip. Make sure that you have AT LEAST SIX non-Crusader levels available before taking Crusader 2 for this to work.
Pounce - Not a feat nor anything else, but the name for the general ability to deliver a full attack on a charge. This is easiest to obtain via a one-level dip into Barbarian using Complete Champion's lion totem.


If you want, it IS possible to make a hybrid Ubercharger / Lockdown - see the Pinball Brothers link in my signature for an example. Juggernaut will let you do it with races other than Goliath, too.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Thank you all very much for your extremely helpful advice and insight! I've decided to drop tanking and go full-on Ubercharger. I've written down all the feats everyone mentioned for charging. Please tell me if I'm missing any:


Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Leap Attack
Shock Trooper
any of the White Raven charges
Headlong Rush
Twisted Charge
Nimble Charge
Dungeon Crasher
Thicket of Blades
Pounce

P.S. The DM allows us to take Pathfinder feats. That's where Juggernaut is from. (Sorry I forget to mention it before.) 





The White Raven charges are highly situational, and low in power unless you allow them to multiply on a crit. Most Uberchargers are built on Power Attack and 2h weapons. If you're going one handed weapons, yeah, they're okay, but you'd better be playing a Warblade or Crusader so you get the higher level charges...and unless you're in a group that likes to charge, you'd be better off with the higher level strikes, instead.

Nimble Charge and Twisted Charge are likewise situational. You can do almost everything they do by buying Boots of Flying. Headlong Rush isn't going to give you such a huge return on damage, either.

Thicket of Blades is a great stance, but you'll need Combat Reflexes and Reach to truly make it work. Lockdown works because at later levels it punishes people for moving...or for not moving, and does double damage when it does. If you're only planning on getting one AoE, Thicket might not be worth it.

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
 The White Raven charges are highly situational, and low in power unless you allow them to multiply on a crit.


Considering how you can use the White Raven charges any time you could use a normal charge - i.e. any time the ubercharge trick would matter - and they both add extra damage (even without a crit, it's not insubstantial) and, most importantly, prevent any AoOs from your charge movement, I would find this an unfair characterization. Especially because every element of the ubercharge will still work on a Battle Leader's Charge. You're not using it for the +10 damage. You're using it for the no AoOs.
Nimble Charge and Twisted Charge are likewise situational. You can do almost everything they do by buying Boots of Flying. Headlong Rush isn't going to give you such a huge return on damage, either.


I listed Nimble and Twisted because they only cost skill points (and what else would a fighter get with those points?). Furthermore, not even Boots of Flying can give you twisted charge's benefit (which lets you charge without moving in a straight line). Similarly, Headlong Rush is a double-damage effect - ANY multiplier on ubercharging is incredible. Remember the huge rush to get Battle Jump early on? That's an even more conditional multiplier than Headlong Rush.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Important note. Leading the Charge is a free +1/2 your level to all charge damage.

I listed Nimble and Twisted because they only cost skill points (and what else would a fighter get with those points?).


This is really the key part.  Sure they aren't awesome and may not be worth a feat. But some skill points? I don't think any fighter would object to that. What else do they plan on, more ranks in jump?

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

The no AoO's for a charge is nice, but remember...if he's not a warblade or crusader, he can only do that 1/fight, and at best every other round. He's also going to need manifester levels to get the higher level charges, and he said he was playing a fighter.

The AoO's is only important if your opponent outreaches you. You can combine Tumble on a charge and render that a moot point, too.

Furthermore, the 'no straight path' is usually because of terrain in the way, the same problem as difficult terrain. Generally speaking, unless you're trying to go around a corner, you will either jump it all, or just fly (which gives you a speed boost to pay for the tumbling).

Headlong Rush might work well, conceeded, since you are already taking the AC hit.

As for the skill points...more Ranks in Jump, of course!

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Sorry, I seem to have misled you guys. Juggernaut isn't from Pathfinder, it's 3.5 homebrew found on the D&D Wiki.
it's 3.5 homebrew found on the D&D Wiki.


Booo! Hissss! Use this instead for most needs, especially feats.
Hey, if your Fighter wasn't killed by a House Cat
during level 1, he is living "up" to his potential.

(wink)

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.