Evil TWF Fighter

53 posts / 0 new
Last post
I need help settingt my evil desert-based TWF fighter who will become a dervish.  His unmodifed stats are Str 16; Dex 16; Con 18; Int 15; Wis 14; Cha 14.  So I change my Con and Dex score around so I can get more out of TWF?  I am also going to take the Winged Template starting out so I can have wings.
I need help settingt my evil desert-based TWF fighter who will become a dervish.  His unmodifed stats are Str 16; Dex 16; Con 18; Int 15; Wis 14; Cha 14.  So I change my Con and Dex score around so I can get more out of TWF?  I am also going to take the Winged Template starting out so I can have wings.


Say the mantra with me now:

What level are you starting? What books are allowed? What's your team? Are there any houserules?

Sorry for emphasis, but this is kind of important information for us to keep working on.

Here's my observations.
1) Your ability scores are incredible (in the literal sense).  
2) Read the Dervish Handbook.
3) Consider the Tome of Battle; Desert Wind is a perfect match for you (it's an entire desert-themed combat school that has a solid movement focus in it). People remember it for its fire attacks, but it does more than that. Splash in Tiger Claw (which works well for TWF synergy) and you're golden even without aiming for Dervish.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I need help settingt my evil desert-based TWF fighter who will become a dervish.  His unmodifed stats are Str 16; Dex 16; Con 18; Int 15; Wis 14; Cha 14.  So I change my Con and Dex score around so I can get more out of TWF?  I am also going to take the Winged Template starting out so I can have wings.


Say the mantra with me now:

What level are you starting? What books are allowed? What's your team? Are there any houserules?

Sorry for emphasis, but this is kind of important information for us to keep working on.

Here's my observations.
1) Your ability scores are incredible (in the literal sense).  
2) Read the Dervish Handbook.
3) Consider the Tome of Battle; Desert Wind is a perfect match for you (it's an entire desert-themed combat school that has a solid movement focus in it). People remember it for its fire attacks, but it does more than that. Splash in Tiger Claw (which works well for TWF synergy) and you're golden even without aiming for Dervish.

I am starting at first level. All of the books are allowed.   My team is that of all 1st level characters.  They are a Barbarian, Cleric of Hextor, Rogue, and a WarBlade.  There are no houserules.  The Winged Template gives me a +2 Dex?

The winged template uses up two levels, so you can't have it on a 1st-level character. Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) or raptoran (Races of the Wild) would give you wings without using up levels. With those, you gain the ability to fly gradually.

I need help settingt my evil desert-based TWF fighter who will become a dervish.  His unmodifed stats are Str 16; Dex 16; Con 18; Int 15; Wis 14; Cha 14.  So I change my Con and Dex score around so I can get more out of TWF?  I am also going to take the Winged Template starting out so I can have wings.


Reading the bolded text now makes me think it sounds like someone using the Desert Wind maneuvers in ToB.  Other then that I start thinking Scout (CAdv) perhaps with some Ranger thrown in before hitting the Dervish class.

As for the rest of it your DEX is already very high especially when you also have the STR to go along with it to turn you into a superhero.  Your character is starting out with TWO Characters worth of stats (ePB 56) and I'd be treating him as if he had a +2 LA just based on those.  The Winged Template also inlcudes LA with it under the RAW which would cause your first level character to be viewed as a higher level character under many metagame rules.
Do you need a Dex of 19 to get the best out of TWF?
You may need DEX 19 to get Greater TWF but the question you'd then need to ask yourself is it really worth spending the feat to occasionally get one additional off-hand attack at a -10 penalty?
Out of curiosity - with both Dex and Str that high, why hasn't anyone suggested Revenant Blade yet?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Swordsage, or Warblade base, forget Devish if you want anyone on this forum to comment any further in a way that will help you. With stats that high consider Revenant Blade (you gotta be an elf, boo) or just go with Swordsage (focus on Desert wind for burning people to death goodness, er evilness) and get Shadow Blade to make use of both Str and Dex for damage, for that matter dip Swashbuckler and get Int to damage, grab some Blood Claw Master (Savage isn't evil but evil can be savage) to round out your offhand damage.

For feats keep in mind the following, Two Weapon Fighting (Get improved from gloves of the balanced hand), Shadow Blade (Dex to Damage), Combat Reflexes (Get additional attacks when people are dumb). There are a pile of other options but those are solidly some of the best for two weapon fighting. 
If you did have something against ToB a swift ambusher/hunter would probably do great properly set up for a desert environment and the damage dice would be amazing for the lack of a 2h
Or a Swift Hunter with some movement increasing tricks, good call f.f
Why should I forget about becoming a Devish?
Why should I forget about becoming a Devish?


You shouldn't. You should just be aware that the class has horrific prerequisites, isn't very user-friendly, and takes a long time to mature. You can make a dervish work, but generally speaking you'd be better off looking into alternatives.

Basically, the dervish is a way to move around and still keep attacking. However, you can do the same sort of thing with the advanced Spring Attack feats from the PHB2. (It can get expensive to do this with a two-weapon fighter, though.) You can also do the same sort of thing from lower levels using the Tome of Battle, since it doesn't rely on full attacks to actually contribute to battle effectively. A handful of its moves - particularly those in the Desert Wind school, which fits your theme quite well - basically amount to Dervish Dance on their own, except they're usable on a per-encounter basis with a recharge rather than a per-day basis with no recharge. (Example: Desert Tempest, which lets you move your speed and make an attack against any enemy you move past.)

It's sort of like wanting to make a samurai-type character, and latching on to the Complete Warrior Samurai or the Sword and Fist Master Samurai instead of using, say, a Diamond Mind / Iron Heart / White Raven warblade (which is essentially the same thing as a samurai thematically, but lacking a mechanical handicap). Do not get caught up in the name of a class - you can be a mobile, desert-themed, scimitar-wielding whirling dervish without levels in the Dervish class.

Dervish isn't awful. It just didn't age well.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

For a quick stub of a build on Swordsage 20, which will easily act as an "Evil Two Weapon Using Dervish"

Feats are the pinnacle thing here I'll assume non-bonus feat race for starters, you can see how to fix that if you want bonus feats for race or flaws.
Show

1 Shadow Blade (Dex to Damage, ToB), Weapon Focus (all Shadow Hand Weapons, given free for level 1 Swordsage)
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Two Weapon Fighting
9 Combat Reflexes
12 Adaptive Style
15 Extra Readied Maneuver
18 Gloom Razor

Use Gloves of the Balanced hand to get Improved Two Weapon Fighting and don't worry at all about Greater, it's not worth it.

You're a Dex based fighter that needs no real Str bonus (10 Str is fine), Con is your next most important stat, followed by Wis (you can add that to damage too).

You've got access to maneuvers like Pouncing Charge (Read here, pounce), Time Stands Still (1000 Cuts, only better, because you can do it once per encounter), Inferno Blade (+3d6+20 fire damage on all attacks for a round), Raging Mongoose (1 extra attack with main and one extra attack with offhand weapon). Desert Tempest simulated Dervish Dance pretty well perfectly and has no feat requirements just some maneuver progression that you'd be doing anyway as this style Dervish (It's available by level 11).

Of course you don't have all of this at one but as a level 20 snap shot you're considerably more powerful than a Dervish. Even at 1 because you don't need to sink feats into being a Dervish later you've got Dex to Damage AND Str to damage which is amazing, as well as a maneuver (Wolf Fang Strike) that lets you fake Two Weapon Fighting and is a standard action to use.
I am still staying with the TWF.
I am still staying with the TWF.


Did you notice how Andarious' build DID get TWF? It just came online a bit later - because TWF alone is hard to work with, especially at level 1. In its place, his build would use Wolf Fang Strike, which lets you move and attack with both weapons at a lower penalty.

If you want it online sooner, switch when you get TWF relative to Shadow Blade. You'll dish out next to no damage at low levels without using your strikes, though.

This same problem is present on the dervish, particularly the whirling dervish versions (TWF-focused; the alternative is the Power Dancer, which tends to use a falchion). The dervish gets a lot of attacks, but none of them do particularly good damage. The usual rule is to NOT use TWF unless you have a source of bonus damage on each attack. That's why, if you read the Dervish Handbook I linked above, a lot of the whirling dervishes dipped Swashbuckler for three levels - so your scimitars deal Int+Str damage on each hit. In Andarious' build, we instead use Shadow Blade, giving you Dex+Str damage, so you don't drift too far away from your core ability scores.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I'm still wondering why we're not suggesting something like Ranger2/Swordsage4/Revenant Blade 5/"Warrior"1/Swordsage+8?

That would give Str+Dex+two-handed Power Attack with both ends of a double scimitar.

EDIT: Forgot that Revenant Blade does not dovetail with Shadow Blade.  So my suggestion would instead be Ranger2/Barb1/Warblade2/Revenant Blade5/Warblade +10 or something similar (Eternal Blade for the last 10 levels, perhaps?) 
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'm not NOT suggesting it, I just like initial concept suggestion to be KISS rather than the whole nine yards. Swordsage 20 gets Dual Boost as well which I failed to mention. That's 3 times a day you can use Raging Mongoose and Inferno Blade in the same round, basically pasting nearly any foe if you lead in with Pouncing Charge or worse yet Time Stands Still.
How would taking some ranger levels help him out?
How would taking some ranger levels help him out?


If you're asking why Draco's uses Ranger, here's why.

1) You get the basic Two-Weapon Fighting feat for free at level 2, even if your Dexterity isn't high enough. (Since you can get Improved Two-Weapon Fighting from a pair of gloves in the MIC, and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting will almost never hit, generally speaking you can actually stop here - and this lets you build a TWFer that's purely dedicated to Strength if you want. And if you DO want to go further in the TWF tree, then it's still a bonus feat, and that helps ease the load a lot.)

2) Ranger gets all the right skills needed to enter Revenant Blade, which was the whole point of Draco's build because Revenent Blade really is that awesome, but has somewhat tricky skill and feat requirements to get in (you need a bonus feat from somewhere to qualify by level 5, and you need 5 ranks in a number of stealth skills; Ranger gives you both of these.)
(Generally speaking, some combination of ranger, fighter, barbarian, and warblade gives you the best lead-up to Eternal Blade. You want warblade for Sudden Leap and Blood in the Water, you want Barbarian for Pounce (Complete Champion), you want fighter to ease the feat burden a bit, and you want ranger for the skills and to help out with the feats, and rarely for Endurance (not on its own, but as a prerequisite to Steadfast Determination, which adds your Constitution modifier to your Will save. Between this and the TWF/gloves approach above, you can actually make a Str/Con focused TWFer if you want and still have all your bases covered.) Which balance of these classes you want in just 5 levels, and their timing, is generally up to the player; it usually works best to start out with ranger though, since you want that for the skills and those are quadrupled at 1st.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Plenty of solid Two Weapon options here. I'd kind of like to hear from the OP if there's a direction they like.

We've got the following.

Swift Ambusher or Swift Hunter (Scout blended with Rogue or Ranger to get better use out of Skirmish and or Sneak Attack)

Revenant Blade (Various lead ins to make a Str primary Two Weapon build that power attacks and pounces in crazy multi weapon charges)

Shadow Blade (Dex Primary build that gets bonus damage from various boosts and maneuvers)

Are any of these concepts appealing? 
An odd, but potentially interesting question: Is the Revenant Blade's capstone ability at all compatible with the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike?  Specifically, can the off-hand side of a double scimitar be considered both a two-handed weapon and a light weapon at the same time?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'm smelling a window for Aptitude Weapon here.
I'm smelling a window for Aptitude Weapon here.

I don't know that it would work in that example, because both Insightful Strike and Legendary Force are class features, not feats.  Aptitude Weapon specifically states "feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon, such as...[list of feats]".
So here's another potentially useful question: Would Shadow Blade be considered to "affect the use of a particular type of weapon"?  If so, then you could get Str+Dex+2h PA on a double scimitar.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Is that used via the weapon aptitude to count the scimitar as a dagger to add the dex on?
Is that used via the weapon aptitude to count the scimitar as a dagger to add the dex on?

Pretty much.  Shadow Blade only works under certain conditions, one of which is wielding a "favored weapon" (I forgot the actual term) of the Shadow Hand school.  If that counts as a feat that "affects a particular type of weapon", then slapping it on a doubles scimitar would allow you to use the Shadow Blade benefits, provided all other conditions were met.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
i am going to start out as a Ranger.
Flavour and power wise that is a good start and will open up the potential for every single idea presented here, I believe all of them have handbooks and plenty of posts regarding them all individually (again can't link from my phone sorry) also I'm sure if you gave us the idea we can show you the cookie cutter outline
I think I want to go to level six as a ranger.
I think I want to go to level six as a ranger.

That's a bad idea unless you're planning to specialize in ranged attacks.  And even then it's still probably a bad idea.  All those extra 4 levels are going to give you is a weak animal companion, a feat you don't need, and minimal spellcasting.  Granted, you'll also get +4 BAB, but there are ways to do this that give you better options.   good example would be a level in babrbarian (grants Pounce and the ability to rage), 2 levels of Warblade (maneuvers are always good), and a level of Revenant Blade.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I think I want to go to level six as a ranger.

That's a bad idea unless you're planning to specialize in ranged attacks.  And even then it's still probably a bad idea.  All those extra 4 levels are going to give you is a weak animal companion, a feat you don't need, and minimal spellcasting.  Granted, you'll also get +4 BAB, but there are ways to do this that give you better options.   good example would be a level in babrbarian (grants Pounce and the ability to rage), 2 levels of Warblade (maneuvers are always good), and a level of Revenant Blade.

I would be better off starting out as a Barbarian then?  I want have some good powers beside just the TWF feats if possible.

I'd say still start off as a Ranger, if you're planning on going the Revenant Blade route. You'd want 2 levels of that so you can get TWF, no matter your Str. You'll also want a level of Lion Totem barbarian (Complete Cheatyface, I mean, Champion). After that, it really depends on what you want to do. If you're willing to delay entering Revenant Blade for a level, go Swordsage & get the Aptitude enhancement on both ends of your double scimitar in order to use the Shadow Blade feat. If you're not, go Warblade for the White Raven charges & put the Valorous enhancement on both ends.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Typing begun at 10 am
@Arindurth: No, starting out as a Ranger is a very good idea.  What they are trying to do is talk you out of taking more levels of Ranger than you might need.  What they are suggesting is Ranger 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 2/Rev. Blade 1 as opposed to taking 6 levels of ranger before the Rev. Blade.  There aren't too many reasons beyond wanting a specific Alternate Class Feature (or ACF) to stay in a base class if you can PrC out.

Good powers, you say?  Warblade 2 gives Uncanny Dodge, maneuvers, a d12 HD, a boost to Ref. equal to your Int modifier, and host of other abilities.  A Barbarian also gives a d12 HD, in additition to Rage at 1st level.  That's not including the Lion Totem ACF from Complete Champion; there's a reason that that particular ACF is used for 'Port and Pounce (aka builds that mimic the attack style of Nightcrawler of X-Men fame).

Speaking of ACFs, you might be interested in couple of Ranger ACFs that will definately help you long term.  The Arcane Hunter ACF from Complete Arcane converts your Favored Enemy bonus to go against anybody who uses arcane spells, as well as spell-like and supernatural abilities that mimic arcane spells (please note that this doesn't bar you from taking levels in an arcane casting class).  If you use Dragon Magazine, the Mystic Ranger variant from #336 gives you major spellcasting abilities (access to a custom list of 0 and 5th level spells), and a decent host of other goodies, but with a few drawbacks.  If you want 4 levels of Ranger, you can get Sword of the Arcane Order from Champions of Valor, and cast arcane spells from the Wiz/Sorc list.

There are other options to help your Ranger spellcasting and add other Awesome abilities, but Knight of the Raven and Sanctified Mind both require you to be good.  If you're playing with Psionics, going into Warmind from XPH might not be a bad idea, not only for the Sweeping Strike ability, but for the other good stuff too.
This character is going to be a desert based mercenary who is deadly at duel-wielding scimitars.  What would be the best way to give him a pair of wings?  Would being under the permanent effect of a haste spell help him out?  Would getting the feat Weapon Focus (scimitar) and related feats help my character out?  What would be some good spell-like abilities or him to have since I want him to have some spell-like abilities to help him out in combat?
We answered most of these earlier in the thread!
This character is going to be a desert based mercenary who is deadly at duel-wielding scimitars.


To be deadly at dual-wielding scimitars takes three things.
1) A lot of bonus damage per hit. 
2) A lot of feats sunk merely in performing this trick. (Especially if you use standard scimitars instead of a double scimitar)
3) The ability to move while making multiple attacks.

You are not going to get all three of these by any reasonable level if you're aiming for Dervish and getting all of the things you're looking for in this laundry list. (We said this on page 1 and page 2.)
What would be the best way to give him a pair of wings?


Play a Raptoran or Dragonborn with the wing aspect. These are base races that get wings naturally, but you don't start out with the ability to fly. You grow into it over time. Critically, these are LA +0 races. If you're okay waiting, a Savage Species ritual can apply the Winged template to another race, but this template in and of itself costs you a level or two. (We said this on page 1.)

A more obscure method involves just two feats: Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambrace) and Open Lesser Chakra (Arms). Binding that to your arms chakra will give you one Astral Construct Menu A ability, one of which gives you physical wings. It's not a great fly speed, though - probably not worth two feats. I only mention it because it's available to any race without a level cost, but the feat cost is intense.
Would being under the permanent effect of a haste spell help him out?


Yes and no. It's insanely costly for some extra effect, but easily dispelled and it doesn't actually help you move and full attack.
Would getting the feat Weapon Focus (scimitar) and related feats help my character out?


Only if you have room to spare. They're sometimes useful but to even consider more than Weapon Focus involves Fighter levels, and those will largely be a trap since fighters do not do 1 and 3 very well. (A couple levels can really help with 2, though.)
What would be some good spell-like abilities or him to have since I want him to have some spell-like abilities to help him out in combat?


None. They're really too costly for a warrior-type to obtain, and you're already spending all your resources on dual wielding big weapons and trying to do so while moving. You'd need something like three characters all at once to afford all of this.


We suggested several possible builds along the way. Draco's Revenant Blade approach (Ranger2/Barbarian1/Warblade2/Revenant Blade5/Warblade or Eternal Blade +10) is probably the best for you - use the Revenant Blade's bonus feats (Ancestral Guidance ability, especially with its amulet) to cover for the feat cost for Shape Soulmeld and you can even add wings to the mix. If your DM is already lax enough to put up with you (given how you didn't bother reading anything we wrote and simply replied with tweet-sized single-sentence questions which were already answered, or single-sentence responses that indicated you weren't listening), make the single request that the Revenant Blade's Legendary Force ability apply to scimitars as well as double scimitars, and you're golden.

The far simpler approach is simply to play a single-classed swordsage, focusing on Desert Wind, Tiger Claw, and possibly Diamond Mind maneuvers. Take Two-Weapon Fighting as a feat, but do not take improved or greater TWF - those attacks will almost always miss, and you can use Gloves of the Balanced Hands to get Improved TWF anyway. This also frees up points from your Dexterity to put into Strength. Play a raptoran or dragonborn to get the wings. As a side effect, Desert Wind includes several supernatural effects that are all desert-themed (there's your spell-like abilities), favors the scimitar (and gives Weapon Focus in it for free if you make the right choices), and gives you lots of movement and speed options (the Desert Tempest maneuver is basically Dervish Dance on steroids, the Flashing Sun maneuver is similar to Haste, and so on). The one drawback to this approach is that your attack bonus will be lower, but your character will be more diverse and distinctive given what I know of your party.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I second what Tempest says about Swordsage, if you're dead set on Scimitar's get the stance Blood in the Water, get Two Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two Weapon fighitng. If you want to do more damage up front do Shadow Blade instaed of Oversized Two Weapon and use Short Swords instead as they'll give you Dex to damage when using a Shadow Hand Weapon (Shortsword) in a Shadow Hand Stance. That said Blood in the Water and Two Scimitars (or a double scimitar) will net better damage over a longer fight but requires your stance be maintained during the entire fight.
I still feel if you don't like these choices that a swift hunting ambush really could fit your character, using swordsage to get the ambusher part, if your interested I could throw something together
I still feel if you don't like these choices that a swift hunting ambush really could fit your character, using swordsage to get the ambusher part, if your interested I could throw something together

I could make a Revenant Blade that can beat up your Swift Ambusher.  

"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Interesting and maybe but I wouldn't underestimate the swift ambusher
Interesting and maybe but I wouldn't underestimate the swift ambusher


I'll referee. Go ahead and decide amongst yourselves what starting level you want; you'll start with DMG wealth for that level as well. Any level higher than 1 can accept level adjustments provided you pay for them. Use me for specific DM calls; I promise here in public that I will be neutral but reasonable.

Use 25PB (15/14/13/12/10/8). Assume all 3.5 books are available except Unearthed Arcana (too unpredictable) and Weapons of Legacy (while I really like it in an adventure, for a show-down it's not useful, shifting the brunt to evaluating a weapon rather than a character); if you want a specific ban or a specific allow, request one with me. While I consider extra-action cheese to be unsporting it is not banned. 

One area I would shy away from is templates. Try to stick to standard, LA+0 races with no templates (unless your gear provides that - i.e. Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis).  

Once the characters are done, we'll decide how to evaluate them - cheers from the crowd, fight to the death with standard/agreed-upon rules (possibly in multiple scenarios and/or with standard (out-of-the-DMG) NPC allies), or in terms of raw damage potential against a CR-average training dummy. We'll iron that out once they're done.

Let's make this an old-school style, regulated throwdown. 

Only stipulation: Draco must use at least one level of Revenant Blade (which does limit your starting level somewhat as they can't be entered before 6th level), and frost.fire must use the Swift Ambusher feat.

Shall we run this in a week?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Me & my big mouth...
I'm in. I don't really care what level we do it for, though my personal preference is 20. Should we go RAW for all things, including XP penalty? Can we ask for assistance, if necessary?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Sign In to post comments