Sorcerer still worse than Wizard.

So, I'm a 3.5 player. Back in 3.5, there was no question that spellcasters were amazingly powerful compared to non-casters. there was also no question that a Wizard was, from levels 8-10 onwards, completely better than a Sorcerer. Don't quote me on this, because I don't remember the name of the guy, but I remember an interview with one of the guys in charge of the spellcasters in 3.5 and he admitted that the Sorcerer was horrible when stood next to a Wizard. They had 1 useless class feature(Familiar), and spellcasting, whereas the Wizard had a Familiar, knowledge of an infinite number of spells, and bonus feats.

On to the point, I think the DnD Next Sorcerer still isn't very good. the class features are fine, but the numbers are way too low. It has no increase in Magical or Weapon Attack Bonus OR any increase in their spell save DCs, which are lower than the Wizard's by base already, as well as a smaller spell selection(which, by the way, is mostly combat spells, and, since they have bad Attack bonuses and bad saves for their spells, they can't even use). Really, the sorcerer sucks at casting spells, which is the whole point of being a sorcerer. As for the class features, the Dragon Heritage doesn't really help. It's pretty good, but not for a Sorcerer. Think about it, none of the Dragon Heritage's abilities help your casting at all. In fact, the Dragon heritage seems to be based around people who want to swing a sword(Which they can't do well beacause of their low Attack Bonuses), rather than casting spells.
It seemed pretty clear to me that the point of the dragon sorc we were given was to be a hybrid caster/melee character. There's no more reason to compare him to the wizard than to compare him to the fighter. You may or may not like him, but he's clearly not modelled on the 3e sorc you're thinking of.
It seemed pretty clear to me that the point of the dragon sorc we were given was to be a hybrid caster/melee character. There's no more reason to compare him to the wizard than to compare him to the fighter. You may or may not like him, but he's clearly not modelled on the 3e sorc you're thinking of.


Yes, I see that and I agree, but unless the other options revamp the class COMPLETELY, it doesn't seem like we will be able to build a Sorcerer who can cast spells efficiently. I mean, it looks like at 8th level or so, the Wizard's going to have DCs that are 2-4 higher, and the same higher for his Magic Attack Bonus.
It seemed pretty clear to me that the point of the dragon sorc we were given was to be a hybrid caster/melee character. There's no more reason to compare him to the wizard than to compare him to the fighter. You may or may not like him, but he's clearly not modelled on the 3e sorc you're thinking of.


Yes, I see that and I agree, but unless the other options revamp the class COMPLETELY, it doesn't seem like we will be able to build a Sorcerer who can cast spells efficiently. I mean, it looks like at 8th level or so, the Wizard's going to have DCs that are 2-4 higher, and the same higher for his Magic Attack Bonus.



Gish (aka dragon) sorc gets all armors, increased hit die and increased attack bonus with weapons. There is no reason why a sorc with "arcane" bloodline or similar wouldn't get increased magic attack and increased spell DCs instead. He could also get bonuses to his cantrips instead of melee attacks when he loses willpower. None of this would require revamping the class completly. I'm not arguing that sorc can be made into a wizard with a bloodline. However nothing of sorc's gishiness is built into the basic chassis. As it is now, the basic sorc chassis amounts to:

"cleric-like versatile arcane caster build, that uses spell points instead of spell slots, and has bloodline dependant powers that activate when he spends his daily resources (thus limiting temptation to go for 5mwd)."
It seemed pretty clear to me that the point of the dragon sorc we were given was to be a hybrid caster/melee character. There's no more reason to compare him to the wizard than to compare him to the fighter. You may or may not like him, but he's clearly not modelled on the 3e sorc you're thinking of.


Yes, I see that and I agree, but unless the other options revamp the class COMPLETELY, it doesn't seem like we will be able to build a Sorcerer who can cast spells efficiently. I mean, it looks like at 8th level or so, the Wizard's going to have DCs that are 2-4 higher, and the same higher for his Magic Attack Bonus.



Gish (aka dragon) sorc gets all armors, increased hit die and increased attack bonus with weapons. There is no reason why a sorc with "arcane" bloodline or similar wouldn't get increased magic attack and increased spell DCs instead. He could also get bonuses to his cantrips instead of melee attacks when he loses willpower. None of this would require revamping the class completly. I'm not arguing that sorc can be made into a wizard with a bloodline. However nothing of sorc's gishiness is built into the basic chassis. As it is now, the basic sorc chassis amounts to:

"cleric-like versatile arcane caster build, that uses spell points instead of spell slots, and has bloodline dependant powers that activate when he spends his daily resources (thus limiting temptation to go for 5mwd)."



I could get on board with this sort of bloodline.  Someone in another thread posted something similar.

Still, a Willpower based Wizard and a Vancian Sorcerer would be cool.  
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!