WotC: Please don't get rid of Akanûl and Tymanther. Let us decide instead.

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Dear WotC,

Please do not remove Akanûl and Tymanther in their entirety from the continent of Faerûn via the events of the Sundering.

Instead, I humbly ask you allow for large swaths of Unther and Mulhorand to return along with portions of each nation’s respective people, while keeping much of Tymanther and Akanûl as well.

Then publish a series of adventures wherein players and DMs get to decide through play which two of the four warring nations wins out, thereby allowing gamers to decide the ultimate fate of these lands (and their pantheons, such as they are).

In my opinion Mulhorand and Unther were well liked, but only for their history and lore; they were never ideal places to set D&D campaigns in.

Whereas Tymanther and Akanûl have shown their usefulness for play in the 4E Realms several times over (and from what I’ve heard, this is especially true for Living Forgotten Realms).

While I think this is reason enough to keep Tymanther and Akanul, I’m intrigued by WotC’s desire to let fans determine the outcome of Realms canon.

So let us decide the fate of these lands.
As  I understand it, theyre not getting rid of them, they just moving back to Abier. So theyll still be around. 

And besides, as Im always fond of saying, Its YOUR Realms! 
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I wholeheartedly support this.

I can understand why folks would like Mulhorand and Unther back, I do, but Tymanther and Akanul have both impacted their respective regions beyond merely appearing during the Spellplague. Both, in fact, have played noteworthy roles in the Brotherhood of the Griffon series, and as you have pointed out, both make for excellent adventure sites. I would hate to see the areas automatically thrown into the bin because they are too "Spellplague-ish" for people who disliked the Spellplague. I would hope they would be given a fair chance.

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147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
Well obviously they cant make everyone happy, if they bring back Unther and Egypt, er I mean Mulhorand, people will complain about that, if they keep Akanul and Tymanther then there will be complaints about that as well. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I personally could go either way. What id really like to see is the regions as Ed orginally intended them to be.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it... I could really care less either way.  However, feel free to have the Aboleth Sovereignity expire once fierce tribes of sea-going dwarves discover that hey, aboleth actually do taste just like lobster...

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it



QFT!!!
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it... I could really care less either way.  However, feel free to have the Aboleth Sovereignity expire once fierce tribes of sea-going dwarves discover that hey, aboleth actually do taste just like lobster...



this +1
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I support this as well.
Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it... I could really care less either way.


You mean like WotC gave us 3rd/2nd edition FR players with this Spellplague crap?

I'm tempted to say, something that echoes what 4E players have said to us. If you don't like 5E Realms, play in the Spellplague setting.
I'm the opposite, I want Mulhorand and Unther back.

But I have no objection to keeping parts of Tymanther and Akanul.

I do like the ideas of portals in this region between Abier and Toril. It'd give them an excuse to do write ups for both Tymanther and,Akanul despite both being back on Abier. You could have cities such as the capital of Akanul which via portals exists on both worlds like the,Ramports of Night that does for the Shadowfell and the Underdark.

And Mulhorand had huge roleplay opportunities, it had ruins to explore, dark Gods like Set and Sebek, Political intrigue, the war with Unther, and plots of nearby Red Wizards. It'll be even better now with High Imaskar as a neirbour (High Imaskar was never Abieran so it won't go back).
obviously I support a vote about this subject

vote for Dragonborn extinction

vote for pink genasi 
Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it... I could really care less either way.


You mean like WotC gave us 3rd/2nd edition FR players with this Spellplague crap?

I'm tempted to say, something that echoes what 4E players have said to us. If you don't like 5E Realms, play in the Spellplague setting.



Or as they say, "use your old books and have fun".  Ah, history always repeats anyway. 

Well, if they keep those two continents, my table of demon-trolls can be let loose to have a slaughter-fest campaign of viciousness and bloodshed.   (We never continued after war was waged on returned abeir after all.)   Since they hate the new races WAAAY more than I do, (I dislike the notion of them being a basic assumption for everywhere, otherwise don't care too much) they can and will go all Dalek on them.  But, as I said, as long as they keep material that makes it easy to convert whatever I prefer, I'll be fine.

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Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

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Please WotC, whatever it is you decide to do with the regions, just don't give us a ham-fisted lame explanation for it... I could really care less either way.


You mean like WotC gave us 3rd/2nd edition FR players with this Spellplague crap?

I'm tempted to say, something that echoes what 4E players have said to us. If you don't like 5E Realms, play in the Spellplague setting.


Yeah, that was pretty much exactly what I was getting at.  Though I wouldn't call out 4e players specifically, my ire tends more towards those Realms-haters who made life unpleasant before 4e was even announced.  I've no idea how much overlap there is between either group though... but I've my suspicions!

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

I have to post the opposite.  I would like to see Mullhorand and Unther back.  COntrary to common ideas, I played in several games in Mullhorand, and ran a campaign in Mulhorrand/Unther for may years.  I am sure I represent a group of people that have played there.

These realms were not treated correctly and the vocal minority was listened too, and somehow the developers figured that the impact my old games could have on the world of Forgotten Realms was null (Yes I know I can keep my realms, but so can the people that want the new Abier lands).  Those worlds should never have been removed in the first place.

Keep them playable, so people can still enjoy them, but separate Abeir from Toril.  I sympathize with people in the same position I was in back in 2008, but of course back then I was told NOONE played there.  At least sticking those lands with Abeir would still make them playable*.

  *I realize that "No one takes my books away", but the same can be said for those that want the new landskept on Faerun instead of the Lands that were there before.

CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
Dear WotC,

Please do not remove Akanûl and Tymanther in their entirety from the continent of Faerûn via the events of the Sundering.

Instead, I humbly ask you allow for large swaths of Unther and Mulhorand to return along with portions of each nation’s respective people, while keeping much of Tymanther and Akanûl as well.

Then publish a series of adventures wherein players and DMs get to decide through play which two of the four warring nations wins out, thereby allowing gamers to decide the ultimate fate of these lands (and their pantheons, such as they are).

In my opinion Mulhorand and Unther were well liked, but only for their history and lore; they were never ideal places to set D&D campaigns in.

Whereas Tymanther and Akanûl have shown their usefulness for play in the 4E Realms several times over (and from what I’ve heard, this is especially true for Living Forgotten Realms).

While I think this is reason enough to keep Tymanther and Akanul, I’m intrigued by WotC’s desire to let fans determine the outcome of Realms canon.

So let us decide the fate of these lands.

Excellent idea!
I do not like Akanul/Tymanther, and I think they are souless designs. Lazily added, just as parts of Chessenta and Mulhorand/Unther were lazily removed. Created solely due to 4E WotC marketing people pressing FR designers, going "Add this! Add this! WoW gamers'll like it! Money, money!"

But what I especially didn't like was ALL of Unther/Mulhorand and a third of Chessenta, being replaced by Akanul, Tymanther and High Imaskar (rather than them all popping up in unoccupied zones in FR). Unther/Mulhorand were two very vastly unique human cultures (which admitedly helps when you borrow ancient history) and surprisingly have a lot going on if you care to read into them. They also had a vast influence in the Southern and Eastern Realms, and once held huge empires that spanned over a great deal of land. Mulhorand also was the parent culture of Thay (then again Thay is an undead country now....).

I did however like the return of the Imaskari, altough I would have much prefered if the Imaskari came back to Raurin, their ancient heartland, rather than taking over Mulhorand.

But as far as I remember having heard, Abeiran parts will all go away from Faerun and be it's seperate planet again. However, Genasi and Dragonborn'll still be around, as there'll still be a connection between Realms and Abeir through portals and such (which DMs can choose to dismiss or not, for themselves). This is the best compromise scenario I want to see, if this is not what happens, I hope the worst scenario is at least that they bring back half of Mulhorand and Unther.
unther was ultimately already gone
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I do not like Akanul/Tymanther, and I think they are souless designs. Lazily added, just as parts of Chessenta and Mulhorand/Unther were lazily removed. Created solely due to 4E WotC marketing people pressing FR designers, going "Add this! Add this! WoW gamers'll like it! Money, money!"

But what I especially didn't like was ALL of Unther/Mulhorand and a third of Chessenta, being replaced by Akanul, Tymanther and High Imaskar (rather than them all popping up in unoccupied zones in FR). Unther/Mulhorand were two very vastly unique human cultures (which admitedly helps when you borrow ancient history) and surprisingly have a lot going on if you care to read into them. They also had a vast influence in the Southern and Eastern Realms, and once held huge empires that spanned over a great deal of land. Mulhorand also was the parent culture of Thay (then again Thay is an undead country now....).

I did however like the return of the Imaskari, altough I would have much prefered if the Imaskari came back to Raurin, their ancient heartland, rather than taking over Mulhorand.

But as far as I remember having heard, Abeiran parts will all go away from Faerun and be it's seperate planet again. However, Genasi and Dragonborn'll still be around, as there'll still be a connection between Realms and Abeir through portals and such (which DMs can choose to dismiss or not, for themselves). This is the best compromise scenario I want to see, if this is not what happens, I hope the worst scenario is at least that they bring back half of Mulhorand and Unther.



Actually the portal solution is a great one.  Keep Abeir as its own playable campaign setting linked via portals.  That I think could please everyone.

CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
I don't want Egypt and Mexico back into my Realms. But I'm not unwilling to compromise and I'd just like more information that details Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanûl a bit more. If that has to be done  through DDI articles or perhaps their own Returned Abeir splat-book then I'd be happy. Heck, they could bring back those areas and I wouldn't care because I've been ignoring countries for the past 15 years pretty easily and I can do so again. But more info on the places  hat might soon be gone is harder to obtain and espically so once they're gone. They want to make portals to Returned Abeir or vice-versa would be fine with me, becuase I could transpose Nations altogether with little trouble.

As far as using my old books, I don't see this as a problem because I've ALWAYS done this. New Editions do not invalideate older lore and my books are precious to my games. I use 3E stuff in my 4e games ALL THE TIME. And I'm sure if I had any 2nd Edition stuff, I'd probably use that too. What I DON'T use is Mulhorandi/Unther/Maztica stuff because I find those areas laughable and silly. So, if I can get stuff NOW for Returned Abeir and other Abeir places then I won't have to worry about DDN stuff because I'll have this to fall back on.
I don't want Egypt and Mexico back into my Realms. But I'm not unwilling to compromise and I'd just like more information that details Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanûl a bit more. If that has to be done  through DDI articles or perhaps their own Returned Abeir splat-book then I'd be happy. Heck, they could bring back those areas and I wouldn't care because I've been ignoring countries for the past 15 years pretty easily and I can do so again. But more info on the places  hat might soon be gone is harder to obtain and espically so once they're gone. They want to make portals to Returned Abeir or vice-versa would be fine with me, becuase I could transpose Nations altogether with little trouble.

As far as using my old books, I don't see this as a problem because I've ALWAYS done this. New Editions do not invalideate older lore and my books are precious to my games. I use 3E stuff in my 4e games ALL THE TIME. And I'm sure if I had any 2nd Edition stuff, I'd probably use that too. What I DON'T use is Mulhorandi/Unther/Maztica stuff because I find those areas laughable and silly. So, if I can get stuff NOW for Returned Abeir and other Abeir places then I won't have to worry about DDN stuff because I'll have this to fall back on.



And now we're stuck with a problem.  Because legions of people such as myself would be more than happy to see Maztica, Mulhorandi, and beyond get some respect (and some better writing of course) in the Realms.  Plus, some of us would happily nuke Abeir/Returned Abeir (which I find laughable and silly) or ignore it outright.  I'm just hoping some modular compromise is made.  That way, I can get what I want and you can get what you want and there's no direct sting in the so-called "canon" or issue raised (outside of individual table of course)

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
unther was ultimately already gone


How so?

I understand that Unther was in a real bloody crisis for decades with the tyrannical reign of Gilgeam the God-King (which ended after ToT), seperatist factions (such as the Tiamat followers, and Banites) fighting each other for Unther, and also with the Mulhorandi invasion.

I thought it would have been really cool if some of Unther's old gods (Ishtar, Ramman and Nergal for example) came back and answered their people's desperate pleas and prayers, and helped them reclaim parts of their land, while Tiamat followers took over one portion of Unther. Would have helped solidify the different factions there, and create an interesting environment for DMs and players alike to influence.
I don't want Egypt and Mexico back into my Realms. But I'm not unwilling to compromise and I'd just like more information that details Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanûl a bit more. If that has to be done  through DDI articles or perhaps their own Returned Abeir splat-book then I'd be happy. Heck, they could bring back those areas and I wouldn't care because I've been ignoring countries for the past 15 years pretty easily and I can do so again. But more info on the places  hat might soon be gone is harder to obtain and espically so once they're gone. They want to make portals to Returned Abeir or vice-versa would be fine with me, becuase I could transpose Nations altogether with little trouble.



And now we're stuck with a problem.  Because legions of people such as myself would be more than happy to see Maztica, Mulhorandi, and beyond get some respect (and some better writing of course) in the Realms.  Plus, some of us would happily nuke Abeir/Returned Abeir (which I find laughable and silly) or ignore it outright.  I'm just hoping some modular compromise is made.  That way, I can get what I want and you can get what you want and there's no direct sting in the so-called "canon" or issue raised (outside of individual table of course)



Legions? Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And I too desire a compromise. I don't think your going to have a problem with the 'Sundering' as it's pretty much set in stone that they'll be bringing back Mexico, Egypt, and those other guys and you'll probably get the info and lore you desire. That's cool. It's not my thing, but I can see how that would be good for the Realms as a whole. What I want is more information about Returned Abeir 'now' before they shelf the entire Tymanther, Akanûl, Returned Abeir elements completely. Traditionalists don't use the information already, so why not continue support for the changes WotC put into motion 4 years ago. Detail these areas a bit, put out a Neverwinter-esque book about them and then, do whatever you will AFTER that fact. Put out information NOW about these regions as they're important currently.

Then, when the Sundering happens and we have loads of information to go on from there, I can be happy with them swapping again. I won't use any of the Egypt or Mexican stuff, but there will be great information to go on from there so I won't have to.

not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
unther was ultimately already gone


How so?

I understand that Unther was in a real bloody crisis for decades with the tyrannical reign of Gilgeam the God-King (which ended after ToT), seperatist factions (such as the Tiamat followers, and Banites) fighting each other for Unther, and also with the Mulhorandi invasion.

I thought it would have been really cool if some of Unther's old gods (Ishtar, Ramman and Nergal for example) came back and answered their people's desperate pleas and prayers, and helped them reclaim parts of their land, while Tiamat followers took over one portion of Unther. Would have helped solidify the different factions there, and create an interesting environment for DMs and players alike to influence.




becuase they finally soccumbed to mulohaund's advances...  

a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
becuase they finally soccumbed to mulohaund's advances...


They did, but it doesn't mean they were culturally assimilated or destroyed.
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?  (By that I mean using good writing to make them feel like they've always interacted with the Realms and give them that high magical feeling that even Al Qadim had!)

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?


 Right, exaclty, theyve been in Primordial/Dragon ruled Abier for the last 100 years, thats bound to have changed them some. I would like to know what New Waterdeep has been up to.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?


 Right, exaclty, theyve been in Primordial/Dragon ruled Abier for the last 100 years, thats bound to have changed them some. I would like to know what New Waterdeep has been up to.



As long as I can ignore said primordial/Abeir stuff

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I don't want Egypt and Mexico back into my Realms. But I'm not unwilling to compromise and I'd just like more information that details Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanûl a bit more. If that has to be done  through DDI articles or perhaps their own Returned Abeir splat-book then I'd be happy. Heck, they could bring back those areas and I wouldn't care because I've been ignoring countries for the past 15 years pretty easily and I can do so again. But more info on the places  hat might soon be gone is harder to obtain and espically so once they're gone. They want to make portals to Returned Abeir or vice-versa would be fine with me, becuase I could transpose Nations altogether with little trouble.

As far as using my old books, I don't see this as a problem because I've ALWAYS done this. New Editions do not invalideate older lore and my books are precious to my games. I use 3E stuff in my 4e games ALL THE TIME. And I'm sure if I had any 2nd Edition stuff, I'd probably use that too. What I DON'T use is Mulhorandi/Unther/Maztica stuff because I find those areas laughable and silly. So, if I can get stuff NOW for Returned Abeir and other Abeir places then I won't have to worry about DDN stuff because I'll have this to fall back on.



And now we're stuck with a problem.  Because legions of people such as myself would be more than happy to see Maztica, Mulhorandi, and beyond get some respect (and some better writing of course) in the Realms.  Plus, some of us would happily nuke Abeir/Returned Abeir (which I find laughable and silly) or ignore it outright.  I'm just hoping some modular compromise is made.  That way, I can get what I want and you can get what you want and there's no direct sting in the so-called "canon" or issue raised (outside of individual table of course)



If they want to stack returned Abeir with Lore NOW that is fine.  I like the solution of getting Abeir and its outlyers off of the map, and having them connected with portals.  Make it a separate world completely.  Hell let the Market decide.  MAKE an Abeir campagin setting and let people that want it play in it.  If WOTC faith it is popular it just might sell. 

I don't wnat to see the Dragonborn gone, I can deal with all the races.  Forgotten Realms has always had tons of crazy races.  Make the lands sunder off of Toril and then there is a permanent portal connecting them.  That way anyone wanting to use them has them, and people that want the original spirit of the forgotten realms returned, can have the original maps back. 

CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
I don't want Egypt and Mexico back into my Realms. But I'm not unwilling to compromise and I'd just like more information that details Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanûl a bit more. If that has to be done  through DDI articles or perhaps their own Returned Abeir splat-book then I'd be happy. Heck, they could bring back those areas and I wouldn't care because I've been ignoring countries for the past 15 years pretty easily and I can do so again. But more info on the places  hat might soon be gone is harder to obtain and espically so once they're gone. They want to make portals to Returned Abeir or vice-versa would be fine with me, becuase I could transpose Nations altogether with little trouble.



And now we're stuck with a problem.  Because legions of people such as myself would be more than happy to see Maztica, Mulhorandi, and beyond get some respect (and some better writing of course) in the Realms.  Plus, some of us would happily nuke Abeir/Returned Abeir (which I find laughable and silly) or ignore it outright.  I'm just hoping some modular compromise is made.  That way, I can get what I want and you can get what you want and there's no direct sting in the so-called "canon" or issue raised (outside of individual table of course)



Legions? Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And I too desire a compromise. I don't think your going to have a problem with the 'Sundering' as it's pretty much set in stone that they'll be bringing back Mexico, Egypt, and those other guys and you'll probably get the info and lore you desire. That's cool. It's not my thing, but I can see how that would be good for the Realms as a whole. What I want is more information about Returned Abeir 'now' before they shelf the entire Tymanther, Akanûl, Returned Abeir elements completely. Traditionalists don't use the information already, so why not continue support for the changes WotC put into motion 4 years ago. Detail these areas a bit, put out a Neverwinter-esque book about them and then, do whatever you will AFTER that fact. Put out information NOW about these regions as they're important currently.

Then, when the Sundering happens and we have loads of information to go on from there, I can be happy with them swapping again. I won't use any of the Egypt or Mexican stuff, but there will be great information to go on from there so I won't have to.




I have to agree there.  Why not?

They can actually put out a whole campaign book related to the forgotten realms WITHOUT massive apocalyptic event.  I have no idea why they felt the need to do that to Neverwinter.



CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?


 Right, exaclty, theyve been in Primordial/Dragon ruled Abier for the last 100 years, thats bound to have changed them some. I would like to know what New Waterdeep has been up to.



I would rather those lands returned without any crazy 'everything is core' lore attached to it.  Drop them back in without the Abeir primordial lore.  I really don't even mind the spellplague history anymore, other than the tacking on of Abeir.

Still I am quite happy with the direction the Sundering seems to be going in.  It sounds more and more like the solution might be Portals. 

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I have to agree there.  Why not?

They can actually put out a whole campaign book related to the forgotten realms WITHOUT massive apocalyptic event.  I have no idea why they felt the need to do that to Neverwinter.






I'm sure that, during the design phase of the Spellplague, they didn't foresee Neverwinter getting the sort of support it did almost 3 years later. Hence why the description of Neverwinter in the FRCG is so vague and just a little blurb on it "being destroyed", because apparently it wasn't really that bad to begin with. Hindsight is always 20/20 afterall.  
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?


 Right, exaclty, theyve been in Primordial/Dragon ruled Abier for the last 100 years, thats bound to have changed them some. I would like to know what New Waterdeep has been up to.



I would rather those lands returned without any crazy 'everything is core' lore attached to it.  Drop them back in without the Abeir primordial lore.  I really don't even mind the spellplague history anymore, other than the tacking on of Abeir.




I don't think they'll receive super Primordial lore elements, but I would think it a bit strange for the countries to come back without any signs of influence from the 'other side' after a 100+ year stay. It doesn't have to be sweeping (only being about 2-3 generations) but there SHOULD be some elements of change. Heck, it might be enough for me to actually use it.

I too think Portals is the way to go, that way it's not TOO big of a change if I remove the main elements of the Sundering from my campaign and keep most of the lore/aspects of Returned Abeir, Akanûl, and Tymanther ON Toril. Sure, it's a departure from Canon but...pffff I've been doing that for years and years.
If we're voting then my vote is to ship Akanul and Tymanther back to Abeir where they belong. To hell with them. I want Unther and Mulhorand back.
The nice thing about the portal idea is that it dovetails nicely with something else I want to see fixed: the Realms' portal networks that were hosed by the Spellplague.

Portals/gates are just about the best, non-contrived way I've found as a DM to move players from one part of the setting to the other. A lot of development went into the why behind ancient portals existing all over the place, so I want them back big time.
Good point about the Portal system.

Primordials it occurs to me that Tymanther used to be part of Returned Abeir before the,switch. Which means that Mulhorand and Unther may have been surrounded by Maztica. That could be interesting, especially if thier was some exchange of culture both ways. MezoEgyptian, with just a taste of Abeir. That could be cool.

That tells me that Tymanther will be at war when it returns, that part that was left on Return Abeir was conquered by Dragons.

I think Akanul was from a different content so greater Primordial influence maybe felt in returned Chessenta.

Another thought alot of the Action will be in,the south and east, I wonder what they have planned for regions that didn't switch, or change as much such as Cormyr, which is still Cormyr, but bigger. I am betting on a Sembian revolt against Netheril.
The nice thing about the portal idea is that it dovetails nicely with something else I want to see fixed: the Realms' portal networks that were hosed by the Spellplague.

Portals/gates are just about the best, non-contrived way I've found as a DM to move players from one part of the setting to the other. A lot of development went into the why behind ancient portals existing all over the place, so I want them back big time.



It really does seem like the portal idea is the best

I think Toril can have its old map back, and the people that like the Abeir Lands can go through the portal and play.

INDEED, it also fixes the portal issue which was another one of my gripes. 

CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
not to point out that alot of us dont have the old lore....



I'm still missing quite a bit.  Also, bringing those lands gives writers the chance to rewrite Maztica, Mulhorandi, and others so they're not just Mexico, Egypt, etc...  I doubt anyone would really mind if they get an improved makeover, right?


 Right, exaclty, theyve been in Primordial/Dragon ruled Abier for the last 100 years, thats bound to have changed them some. I would like to know what New Waterdeep has been up to.



I would rather those lands returned without any crazy 'everything is core' lore attached to it.  Drop them back in without the Abeir primordial lore.  I really don't even mind the spellplague history anymore, other than the tacking on of Abeir.

Still I am quite happy with the direction the Sundering seems to be going in.  It sounds more and more like the solution might be Portals. 




Or at least make it easy to ignore.  What I want is a rewrite of these settings so they feel like they've always been a part of the Realms.  That's one of the reasons I like Al Qadim.  The way it was written, it feels closer to the Realms than a lot of other sub-settings.  But yeah, I'd prefer if those settings had optional tabs for Abeir/POL tack-ons, so that way if you want them to return and fee like a part of the story, cool!  Otherwise, it's all the more easy to ignore spellplague/abeir and not feel chastised for it.

But, as I've been saying in near mantra, "Make the Realms modular.  Give options to all fans!"

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
The nice thing about the portal idea is that it dovetails nicely with something else I want to see fixed: the Realms' portal networks that were hosed by the Spellplague.

Portals/gates are just about the best, non-contrived way I've found as a DM to move players from one part of the setting to the other. A lot of development went into the why behind ancient portals existing all over the place, so I want them back big time.



It really does seem like the portal idea is the best

I think Toril can have its old map back, and the people that like the Abeir Lands can go through the portal and play.

INDEED, it also fixes the portal issue which was another one of my gripes. 




Or Vise-Versa, keeping the map of 4E (poor quality and all) and using portals to Mulhorand, Unther, and Maztica. So Portals help regardless of what version you want to use.
Or do this. Ship Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanul back to Abeir, then publish an Abeir Campaign Guide. 

As for the portals, it works better going from Faerun to Akanul and Tymanther rather than Unther and Mulhorand because Mulhorand has tons of shared history with its neighbors in Faerun which Tymanther doesn't possess. Tymanther doesn't share centuries of history with the Imaskari or with Thay. It's Mulhorand which shares that history. And so long as Mulhorand's not even on the map you can't play out the tension which exists between all of them as well as Unther. So Unther and Mulhorand absolutely need to come back so we can get back to the story developments which we saw towards the end of 3E, which was the burgeoning conflict between a resurgent Mulhorand and Thay. And now that the Imaskari are back we could see a conflict between them and Mulhorand as well. And with some leftover Dragonborn from Tymanther after it leaves we could also see the Mulhorandi enslaving most of them while the rest either flee to the rest of Faerun or form a resistance movement to fight against the Mulhorandi and free their brethren.
Or do this. Ship Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanul back to Abeir, then publish an Abeir Campaign Guide. 

As for the portals, it works better going from Faerun to Akanul and Tymanther rather than Unther and Mulhorand because Mulhorand has tons of shared history with its neighbors in Faerun which Tymanther doesn't possess. Tymanther doesn't share centuries of history with the Imaskari or with Thay. It's Mulhorand which shares that history. And so long as Mulhorand's not even on the map you can't play out the tension which exists between all of them as well as Unther. So Unther and Mulhorand absolutely need to come back so we can get back to the story developments which we saw towards the end of 3E, which was the burgeoning conflict between a resurgent Mulhorand and Thay. And now that the Imaskari are back we could see a conflict between them and Mulhorand as well. And with some leftover Dragonborn from Tymanther after it leaves we could also see the Mulhorandi enslaving most of them while the rest either flee to the rest of Faerun or form a resistance movement to fight against the Mulhorandi and free their brethren.



The bold part is most what I would like to see, but I realize it is probably not possible.  I wouldn't like to see the map remain as a 4e map, I think that is the clincher for most of the traditional realms fans.  We'll keep the history and the lore, but we want the lands back.  I have no problem with portals leading to the lands of Abeir, but I would not be able to swallow the changes as well if Mulhorand and unther were not on the continent of Faerun.  The same goes for Halruaa.

I have been playing the realms now with my AD&D and 3rd edition books for all of Pathfinder's run so far.  I think the new Realms will give me reason to play in them, but if it is just minor adjustments, there is no reason for me to buy into it and I can continue using older realms material as I have been doing for the last 4 years.
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