Was anything said at Gen Con about the future of DDI & online tools?

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
Title says it all.

Thanks in advance if anyone can shed some light on the subject.
"Keep paying your monthly sub."
Get the troika folks back, retool TOEE using the current ruleset, Turn Based Combat, of course. Release in December then follow up with expansions covering Against The Giants, The Scourge of the Slave Lords. maybe DLC for the one shot's like Ghost Tower of Inverness, White Plume Mountain, etc. Using the same engine, could throw the Dragonlance folks a bone or two with faithful adaptations of the first 3 mods of that series. Then when it looks about like the engine's run it's course release an adventure editor/builder expansion sort of like the old Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures.
"Keep paying your monthly sub."



LOL
As far as I can tell, no.  I'm not sure what the online articles are going to cover since there doesn't seem to be much in the way of new game material coming out.  Two forgotten realms adventures were mentioned, but they didn't say what rules set it will use.
 
Electronic versions of previous edition content were announced, but how that ties into DDI is anyone's guess.
Honestly I hope they still keep up with 4th eidtion.  I bought all the books for 4.0, and I refuce to pick up 5th edition.  It's just beyond rididulous that WotC expects me to pick up a new set of rules.  It's just about the money they want to make.  I dropped a pit of cash for this for them to up and change the rules.  I am beyond irate at this point about WotC.
Honestly I hope they still keep up with 4th eidtion.  I bought all the books for 4.0, and I refuce to pick up 5th edition.  It's just beyond rididulous that WotC expects me to pick up a new set of rules.  It's just about the money they want to make.  I dropped a pit of cash for this for them to up and change the rules.  I am beyond irate at this point about WotC.



Well, now you can join the league of the 3.x fans who felt that way when 4E came out! 

But, in all honesty, if you want to keep on playing 4e after Next comes out, then by all means, play 4e!  The great thing about the physical books, at least, is that they are still perfectly good.  We should all play the edition we each want to play.

 I didn't hear anything at GenCon about any electronic tools, though.

Mar
l      

Maybe they'll release the character builder and compendium in a downloadable form. No more obscene loading times, character limits, and 'unknown errors'. Ah, that'd be nice.

And while we're wishing for impossible things I want a ring of regeneration.
Maybe they'll release the character builder and compendium in a downloadable form. .



keep dreaming
Honestly I hope they still keep up with 4th eidtion.  I bought all the books for 4.0, and I refuce to pick up 5th edition.  It's just beyond rididulous that WotC expects me to pick up a new set of rules.  It's just about the money they want to make.  I dropped a pit of cash for this for them to up and change the rules.  I am beyond irate at this point about WotC.


You don't have to pick up a new set of anything because 4e will continue to work forever.

WoTC is entitled to make as much money as they can and there's nothing wrong with that.

They haven't changed any rules.

You need to relax and play more 4e.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Maybe they'll release the character builder and compendium in a downloadable form. No more obscene loading times, character limits, and 'unknown errors'. Ah, that'd be nice. And while we're wishing for impossible things I want a ring of regeneration.



The more likely case is they'll give you about a months notice.
Is it too much to ask of WotC? To inform DDI subscribers what they can expect to get in terms of content over the next 2 years while Next is being worked on.
They probably haven't made a final decision yet.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

They probably haven't made a final decision yet.



Yeah, honestly, given that it is two years off, they probably haven't decided yet. They have plenty of time to see how the marketing is going, and decide on a path.


Don't expect 4e support or any new tools to surge forth though, the trickle we have is probably the best case scenario.  
They probably haven't made a final decision yet.



Yeah, honestly, given that it is two years off, they probably haven't decided yet. They have plenty of time to see how the marketing is going, and decide on a path.


Don't expect 4e support or any new tools to surge forth though, the trickle we have is probably the best case scenario.  



Wait ... What? Are you saying they don't know what they are going to do when Next comes out or until Next comes out? All I want to know is what should I expect to get for my subcription until Next comes out?

I'm paying for something right now but what is it? Access to tools to a version of a game that appears to no longer get any support when they want me to playtest Next, Dragon and Dungeon articles that if I were to print up the monthly version of each could barely line the bottom of a birdcage (I'm talking quantity not quality). What I'm looking for WotC is a reason to keep my subscription active, and they should be honest and tell us if we shouldn't expect much until Next.
They probably haven't made a final decision yet.



Yeah, honestly, given that it is two years off, they probably haven't decided yet. They have plenty of time to see how the marketing is going, and decide on a path.


Don't expect 4e support or any new tools to surge forth though, the trickle we have is probably the best case scenario.  



Wait ... What? Are you saying they don't know what they are going to do when Next comes out or until Next comes out?

Yes, I don't think they've made a decision on what to do when Next comes out yet, but I don't know it for a fact because I don't work for WoTC.
All I want to know is what should I expect to get for my subcription until Next comes out?

You should expect to get what you're getting now.  Not trying to be snotty, but why is that a problem?  If you don't like what you're getting now, cancel.  If you do like what you're getting now, you can expect to get exactly that until we hear otherwise (and for a good period of time after that), and then you can rethink your decision if you want. 

What you'll get in the future is quite a long ways down the road yet.  Plenty of time to see what digital offerings they have and decide whether you want them or not.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Another thing:  why do so many people think 4e has a problem, or is "dead" if WoTC doesn't continue to create new game elements for it month after month? 

You know, it can't go on forever with new material being released every month and frankly, I'm kind of glad the frequency of new game elements has slowed down.  This constant flow of new ... everything ... every month, including updates and errata was always unsustainable and in my mind, unnecessary. 

And some of the same people who complain about lack of new material are the same people who complain about WoTC just being in it to sell more books and make more money.  Well ... DUH!  Of course they want to sell more D&D!  But several years of new monthly releases wasn't going to happen forever.

There's plenty of 4e to keep me going for years and years and like I said, I'm kinda glad the pace has slowed down.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

The distinction here is that when 4e books aren't printed, its fine, you just don't buy the books.  But when DDI content slows down, you are still paying the same subscription price.

It's also a fair question to ask what that content is going to be, since it isn't going to be in support of print products.  Continue with 4e?  Next previews?  A mix?  Edition neutral?

Nobody knows at this point. 
Another thing:  why do so many people think 4e has a problem, or is "dead" if WoTC doesn't continue to create new game elements for it month after month? 

You know, it can't go on forever with new material being released every month and frankly, I'm kind of glad the frequency of new game elements has slowed down.  This constant flow of new ... everything ... every month, including updates and errata was always unsustainable and in my mind, unnecessary. 

And some of the same people who complain about lack of new material are the same people who complain about WoTC just being in it to sell more books and make more money.  Well ... DUH!  Of course they want to sell more D&D!  But several years of new monthly releases wasn't going to happen forever.

There's plenty of 4e to keep me going for years and years and like I said, I'm kinda glad the pace has slowed down.




Because they are paying the same amount they did for less content. Many months where we paid less had many times more content than what we get now. Yes, the tools are nice, but there are alternatives out there. If they weren't still charging us the increased amount, maybe people would be happier.


People also like seeing new things, there are a number of classes that still feel to limited to the same pool of powers because most of their other options are for a 2nd build, or just plain suck, or simply don't exist.    

They probably haven't made a final decision yet.



Yeah, honestly, given that it is two years off, they probably haven't decided yet. They have plenty of time to see how the marketing is going, and decide on a path.
Don't expect 4e support or any new tools to surge forth though, the trickle we have is probably the best case scenario. 


Wait ... What? Are you saying they don't know what they are going to do when Next comes out or until Next comes out? All I want to know is what should I expect to get for my subcription until Next comes out?
I'm paying for something right now but what is it? Access to tools to a version of a game that appears to no longer get any support when they want me to playtest Next, Dragon and Dungeon articles that if I were to print up the monthly version of each could barely line the bottom of a birdcage (I'm talking quantity not quality). What I'm looking for WotC is a reason to keep my subscription active, and they should be honest and tell us if we shouldn't expect much until Next.




We'll probably know before Next comes out, but Next is still like a year and a half away. 4e isn't going to get any surge of support though. If you dont like what you have now, it sure as heck isn't going to get any btter.

You shouldn't expect much until Next. If there was something cool about it WoTC would either be boastin about it, be excited by something they couldnt talk about yet (which probably just means we're getting thrown under another buss).
No, you are not paying the same amount for less content.   You have exactly the amount of content that was there when you started your subscription, plus more each month.  People are just complaining that they don't get enough NEW content.  That's not the same has LESS content.


4e has a staggering amount of content - many people have complained there's actually too much.  If you feel you're getting ripped off somehow, you're in a very tiny minority.    

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

No, you are not paying the same amount for less content.   You have exactly the amount of content that was there when you started your subscription, plus more each month.  People are just complaining that they don't get enough NEW content.  That's not the same has LESS content.


4e has a staggering amount of content - many people have complained there's actually too much.  If you feel you're getting ripped off somehow, you're in a very tiny minority.    



So if you were getting say, an actual paper magazine and suddenly they starting cutting back on page count, it'd be fine cause you still have all your old magazines?

I have all the old stuff in PDF already, the only people who get "more content' for their buck are those who join late.


Money isn't going to support the writers of the old stuff, its going towards writers of new stuff.


If i left right now I'd have everything i'd paid for, minus some crappy online tools.     
Another thing:  why do so many people think 4e has a problem, or is "dead" if WoTC doesn't continue to create new game elements for it month after month? 

You know, it can't go on forever with new material being released every month and frankly, I'm kind of glad the frequency of new game elements has slowed down.  This constant flow of new ... everything ... every month, including updates and errata was always unsustainable and in my mind, unnecessary. 

And some of the same people who complain about lack of new material are the same people who complain about WoTC just being in it to sell more books and make more money.  Well ... DUH!  Of course they want to sell more D&D!  But several years of new monthly releases wasn't going to happen forever.

There's plenty of 4e to keep me going for years and years and like I said, I'm kinda glad the pace has slowed down.



4e will die a slow drawn out death because people don't live in a bubble.  Yes, the game is fun, and yes, there is a ton of material.  But if the makers of asteroids (arcade game) came out with tons of expansions, but you were still a triangular ship shooting rocks, you might move on.  Thus is what many many many people will do. 

Also, add the fact that this is is a cooperative game and you need others to play.  If they've moved on...

It might work for you if you have a nice home group and none of them want to shift.  But for many, it is a death knell when their hobby store, DM, or friends move on.

Now concerning the question: People have every right after Wizards' history to question DDi and their future intentions.  And if they don't already know what they are going to do with Next for DDi, then they are about one year late already in their planning.  They had better know, and if they don't they had better get a vision and start working on it immediately.  No one wants another fiasco like 4e's DDi promises.
4e will die a slow drawn out death because people don't live in a bubble.


And yet, there are apparently still enough people who play previous editions of D&D that WotC are reprinting books from those old editions...

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

4e will die a slow drawn out death because people don't live in a bubble.


And yet, there are apparently still enough people who play previous editions of D&D that WotC are reprinting books from those old editions...



As collector editions.  I think that is a far cry from publishing for a mass market.  Also, they are reprinting those older editions because no one is really working on 4e material and they need a source of revenue.
The point is that older editions of RPGs don't automatically 'die' just because newer editions are published. Roleplayers tend to use the system they like the best. If 5e ends up being much like what we've seen in the playtests, there's very little there to attract the people whose favourite D&D edition is 4e. Sure, some 4e fans will switch to the new shiny anyway, but a lot won't. There are a lot of people out there still playing 2e regularly. There are even people who continue to play 3.5, even though Pathfinder exists. So when you say that 4e "will die a slow drawn out death", well, the evidence is not on your side.

(Unless by "will die a slow drawn out death", you just meant "will have fewer people playing it than now"?)

Ironically, if you were actually right, we wouldn't be talking about this now, because 4e would have been far more commercially successful (because all those fans of earlier editions would have switched to 4e as those earlier editions died their "slow drawn out deaths") and WotC probably wouldn't even be talking about 5e for another couple of years.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

4e will die a slow drawn out death because people don't live in a bubble.


And yet, there are apparently still enough people who play previous editions of D&D that WotC are reprinting books from those old editions...



And some of us still like our asteroid-shooting ship to be a triangle.
Seriously. I mean I still play B/X, OD&D, 1E, not to mention 4e, so the whole notion that 4e will "die" just bc they are making another edition is just preposterous.
Fair enough.  I misspoke and used the wrong words. 

Perhaps what I meant to say is it will "die" (I use the term loosely) because there will be no new material for it.  I realize that 3.5 lives on, but the majority of the numbers are really due to Pathfinder.  1st Edition and 2e live on, but largely due to nastalgia, and even then the people still playing is very limited.  I think 4e will see a drop much greater than any edition has ever seen.  Better marketing and more choices will make this so.

I realize this is just my perception.  My friends and I accoassionally run a home group, but the vast majority of my experience is with public playing.  I live near two very popular gaming stores.  I live in an area where there are 6 conventions a year.  And I live in a high density populated area.  So when I look at the convention lists and see one 1st edition game running, but 25 4e, I wouldn't necessarily call it "alive."  When I look at meetup.org and check gaming groups in my area, and see the vast majority 4e or Pathfinder, yet spot no 2e, I wouldn't say it's "alive."  When I go to the hobby shops to play Encounters, and all 40 people are there talking about when Next is going to take over Encounters, I fear for 4e's future.

So you're right in the fact that it will live on.  But, to me, living and being full of life are two different things.  I guess that's what I meant to say.   

Another thing:  why do so many people think 4e has a problem, or is "dead" if WoTC doesn't continue to create new game elements for it month after month? 

Because people are expected to pay the same amount they did while there was new game elements month after month.

If WotC is providing less for the same charge people won't continue to pay this sum and the more people stop DDI subs, the less income for WotC, the less content produced, the more people stob subscribing ....


Classical death spiral.


 

You have exactly the amount of content that was there when you started your subscription,

So I should stop paying them immediately? Because I already have this content and will continue to have it if I stop paying now.

 

  plus more each month.

That's the only thing I am paying them for. Anything past I paid them in the past it's on my hard drives and will stay there when I stop paying them. 

And since the "more each month" is getting more and more scare while charging the same price, I won't stand that for much longer


 

 4e has a staggering amount of content - many people have complained there's actually too much.

So these people are propably not paying WotC for new content, which is bad for WotC.

 

you're in a very tiny minority.

The group  paying the same amount for no new stuff instead of simply not paying for no new stuff seems to be the tiny minority.


The bean counters at Hasbro certainly still expect a certain revenue while WotC is working on 5e and I for one will not pay them a single cent just to create 5e (which I am then supposed to buy at full retail anyway). If they want my money they need to offer me something I want to buy and calculate it that the price they want me to pay also covers dev costs for 5e while still wanting me to buy whatever they're selling. 


I won't give them money for nothing in hope they make a good 5e out of it.

I've kept an annual subscription going for a while now (2 years?).  My latest sub finally expired just this month and I was gonna hold off buying another 'til I heard more about any plans for DDI.

You might've noticed however, I still have that damn Insider icon under my username ;).  I ended up buying a monthly sub just so I could snatch the 'Iggwilv-Graz'zt Affair' article.  I absolutely love the History Check series.  My favorite since the Core Beliefs in the latter days of the print magazine.

This is prolly the route I'm gonna take for the time being; just buy a monthly subscription when something catches my eye (and the Iggwilv-Graz'zt one certainly did ;)).  Could end up costing more money but at least this way, I'm certain what I'm paying for.  

That's what's holding me back from buying another full sub; not knowing what to expect.  I'd love some 4e support in then meantime but I ain't gonna plunk down $70 just on hope.
/\ Art
I find the online tools frustrating. I like the compendium, except that they keep fooling around with the formatting, so turning the treasures into printable index cards turns out to take work. I like the adventure tools, except that the online version has limitations on how many monsters I can store and has some text-handling bugs. I like the character-builder except that it isn't extensible enough -- if you want to create custom items or tinker with class features, you're out of luck. (You still can't add your own picture unless you're hosting it somewhere, which is absurd.)

Add to that the nightmare that is trying to integrate third-party tools with D&D Insider information,. Aarg. I'm still on the fence about whether I'll pay for another year when next February rolls up. They're useful but the limitations really chafe; can't help but feel we'd be ahead, as a community, to work on open source content and systems.