Ruling on Chromatic Sphere, which rule?

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Chromatic Sphere has this ruling:
This is a mana ability, which means it can be activated as part of the process of casting a spell or activating another ability. If that happens you get the mana right away, but you don't get to look at the drawn card until you have finished casting that spell or activating that ability.

What is the rule that supports this? And where is the card that you can't look at -- is it still in your hand?  If it's in my hand, can I discard it for another effect (such as Bog Witch?)

EDIT: and if the card draw is replaced by something else, am I still not allowed to look at it?

My main question is which rule says I can't look at the card, and the other questions popped in as I was thinking about that one.
 

What is the rule that supports this?

Here you go:
401.5. If a spell or ability causes a card to be drawn while another spell is being cast, the drawn card is kept face down until that spell becomes cast (see rule 601.2h). The same is true with relation to another ability being activated.

And where is the card that you can't look at -- is it still in your hand?  If it's in my hand, can I discard it for another effect (such as Bog Witch?)

I would think it is in your hand. 401.5 doesn't say to delay the draw or anything, so i would think you draw it, moving it to your hand, but you just aren't allowed to know its identity yet.


What is the rule that supports this?

Here you go:
401.5. If a spell or ability causes a card to be drawn while another spell is being cast, the drawn card is kept face down until that spell becomes cast (see rule 601.2h). The same is true with relation to another ability being activated.

And where is the card that you can't look at -- is it still in your hand?  If it's in my hand, can I discard it for another effect (such as Bog Witch?)

I would think it is in your hand. 401.5 doesn't say to delay the draw or anything, so i would think you draw it, move it to your hand, but just don't get to look at its identity yet.




Thanks!
 
so, to make sure i understand,
i can activate the mana ability of chromatic sphere while in the procress of casting a spell, which will get a card in my hand that is face down. but i can then activate the ability of bog witch (ie still to help me cast the spell i'm in the middle of casting), discarding the face-down card in my hand, ... and the discarded card will now be face-up because it's in my graveyard?

do i have to go to the rules t&t thread to ask what the idea behind rule 401.5 is, or can i ask that here? 
Also, If the face down draw happens to be a Basking Rootwalla, do you get the chance to madness it? or is it too late by the time it's face up?

Level 1 Judge

If it turns out that you are unable to cast the spell, the rules for handling illegal actions will cause you to undo casting the spell, putting it back wherever it was cast from.  You may also undo any mana abilities activated, which would cause you to return the drawn cards to the top of your library.  However if you look at the card you have just drawn then reverse that action, you will have gained knowledge about the top of your library and that can't be reverse.  401.5 exists to prevent this.
Edit: Before moving a card to a public zone, it is revealed so that all players can look at it and see if any replacement effects apply.  This means you will get a chance to use Basking Rootwalla's madness ability.
Relevant Rules


401.5. If a spell or ability causes a card to be drawn while another spell is being cast, the drawn card is kept face down until that spell becomes cast (see rule 601.2h). The same is true with relation to another ability being activated.


400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object's controller -- or its owner if it has no controller -- chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous "destroy" effects.) Then the event moves the object.

717. Handling Illegal Actions

717.1. If a player realizes that he or she can't legally take an action after starting to do so, the entire action is reversed and any payments already made are canceled. No abilities trigger and no effects apply as a result of an undone action. If the action was casting a spell, the spell returns to the zone it came from. The player may also reverse any legal mana abilities activated while making the illegal play, unless mana from them or from any triggered mana abilities they triggered was spent on another mana ability that wasn't reversed. Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, or caused a library to be shuffled.

717.2. When reversing illegal spells and abilities, the player who had priority retains it and may take another action or pass. The player may redo the reversed action in a legal way or take any other action allowed by the rules.

so, to make sure i understand,
i can activate the mana ability of chromatic sphere while in the procress of casting a spell, which will get a card in my hand that is face down. but i can then activate the ability of bog witch (ie still to help me cast the spell i'm in the middle of casting), discarding the face-down card in my hand, ... and the discarded card will now be face-up because it's in my graveyard?

Yep.

do i have to go to the rules t&t thread to ask what the idea behind rule 401.5 is

I believe it's to prevent abuse of the rules for undoing illegal actions. If not for 401.5, you could do something like: Start to cast a spell; use chromatic sphere to produce mana; draw a card and see it's identity; "accidentally" tap your lands wrong, so that you can't legally cast the spell; undo the process of casting the spell. You're now back where you started, except you know the top card of your library.
Also, If the face down draw happens to be a Basking Rootwalla , do you get the chance to madness it? or is it too late by the time it's face up?

The card may be face down, but it still has madness. When you discard it, you can discard it with madness. In practice you'll have to discover this possibility after you physically move the card out of your hand, but i don't think that should prevent you from discarding it with madness.
Chromatic Sphere has this ruling:
This is a mana ability, which means it can be activated as part of the process of casting a spell or activating another ability. If that happens you get the mana right away, but you don't get to look at the drawn card until you have finished casting that spell or activating that ability.
 



Why couldn't I just activate the ability and let the mana "float" to see which card I've drawn and then spend the mana to cast that card?
Why couldn't I just activate the ability and let the mana "float" to see which card I've drawn and then spend the mana to cast that card?


That's legal. 
Why couldn't I just activate the ability and let the mana "float" to see which card I've drawn and then spend the mana to cast that card?


That's legal. 


Just to be clear, it also has a different result. If you float the mana, then you can't go back. The reason rule 401.5 exists is to prevent the following situation:

1. Begin to cast Runeclaw Bear. It goes on the stack, then you begin to pay costs for it.
2. In the "pay costs" step of casting the spell, you activate the ability of Chromatic Sphere. This lets you draw a card. Without rule 401.5, you look at that card.
3. You decide not to produce any more mana. You now fail to pay the cost of Runeclaw Bear, which forces the game to rewind back to before you started to cast it. You return Runeclaw Bear to your hand, you return Chromatic Sphere to the battlefield, you untap whatever land you used to pay for Chromatic Sphere's ability, and you put the card you drew back on top of your library. The end result is that you've looked at the top of your library, essentially for free. (Ok, fine, you had to reveal Runeclaw Bear to do so.)

Rule 401.5 exists, not because that interaction is broken, but because it is something people can use to their advantage, and most importantly, it is very confusing to most players.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

oo, i love learning this stuff :-)
thanks for enlightening me about why that rule exists.