D&D Podcast - Penny Arcade/PvP #3 (of 4)

I tried, but I can't get past Jerry.  Don't know what it is anymore, but I just do not care to listen to him.

If anyone forces their way through it, I'd love to hear some of the highlights.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
It's so nice to see Mearls take a verbal beating for throwing 4E players under the bus. He deserves every bit of it.
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Fighters have 4d12 combat dice @ level 10.
There are higher level combat manuvers.
   Ripote (lvl 7?): if an enemy misses you, you can spend 3 dice to make an attack againt it.

Combat manuvers intended to be open.  May show up in other classes (warlord possibly using one to knock someone off balance was mentioned).

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

yeah seems like the number of CS die is kinda up in the air at the moment.
also intresting that he sais the wizard isen't done yet and magic traditions will be added.
Your saying I can roll all of these dice on one attack...
Yup.

Or not, should you choose to spend them on other things.  But they refresh every turn, use them how you will.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It's so nice to see Mearls take a verbal beating for throwing 4E players under the bus. He deserves every bit of it.




wait what?
 
4d12 additional damage by only level 10 seems high.  I think they might need to rule that not more than half your dice rounded up can be added to the damage of a single attack in one round.  4s12 is roughly equivalant to 8d6 which is only just shy of the level 10 rogue who needs advantage to inflict damage.  Personally, I think 10d6 is too much too.  I know damage is suppost to scale in 5e but it seems to be scaling faster than I'd like.  21d6 on sneak at level 20?  Yikes!
4d12 additional damage by only level 10 seems high.  I think they might need to rule that not more than half your dice rounded up can be added to the damage of a single attack in one round.  4s12 is roughly equivalant to 8d6 which is only just shy of the level 10 rogue who needs advantage to inflict damage.  Personally, I think 10d6 is too much too.  I know damage is suppost to scale in 5e but it seems to be scaling faster than I'd like.  21d6 on sneak at level 20?  Yikes!

It's hard to say what else rogues will get by that level.

I mean, thugs can reasonably do sneak attack every round at level 1.  And since it's with advantage they are still 25% more then the fighter.  They also immobilize enemies.  Something a fighter would have to spend his dice to do.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

It's so nice to see Mearls take a verbal beating for throwing 4E players under the bus. He deserves every bit of it.




wait what?
 



Yeah, at what point in that podcast do you get that idea?

All three of them actually seemed pretty on-board with the CS idea (way more so than the previous podcasts)
Any way to get this as text?
yeah seems like the number of CS die is kinda up in the air at the moment.



Yeah, die size too - we heard Mearls debating starting 1d4 vs. 1d6 as the starting value. 

However, d12s at 10 is going to make level 20 a bit difficult to build smoothly to. And 4d12 at level 10 suggests that you move up through the "gears" fairly quickly once you get to 2 dice. 

Perhaps instead we could start with 2d4, then have something like this:
1 - 2d4
2 - 2d4
3 - 2d6 
4 - 2d6
5 - 3d6
6 - 3d6
7 - 3d8
8 - 3d8
9 - 4d8
10- 4d8
11- 4d10
12- 4d10
13- 5d10
14- 5d10
15- 6d12
16- 6d12
17- 7d12
18- 7d12
19- 8d12
20 -8d12
 
Then the even "dead" levels on Dice can be the levels in which you learn new maneuvers and/or improve old ones. 
 
Race for the Iron Throne - political and historical analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire.
You know how pumped they all sounded for Combat Superiority? That's basically how I see it, too. I'm okay with other classes getting a stunted version of it, but the lion's share of the concept should stay unique to the fighter. It's awesome, and crazy easily modifiable. So much potential. 
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
I think nobody mentioned it: At the very end MM talks about a new rogue scheme - charlatan - suppousedly it is meant to be reminiscent of 1ed thief who was able to use some magic stuff sometimes (I thought it was a bard), the way he describes it, it seems like 3ed UMD. I'm not thrilled, as of now, but it could be cool.
It's so nice to see Mearls take a verbal beating for throwing 4E players under the bus. He deserves every bit of it.




wait what?
 



I mean, I was drinking while I listened too, but even I didn't misinterpret things that badly.

I can't see how, comparing the current fighter CS, it gets to 4d12 by tenth level though. I think they gave us a pretty watered down version of it.
'That's just, like, your opinion, man.'
yeah seems like the number of CS die is kinda up in the air at the moment.



Yeah, die size too - we heard Mearls debating starting 1d4 vs. 1d6 as the starting value. 

However, d12s at 10 is going to make level 20 a bit difficult to build smoothly to. And 4d12 at level 10 suggests that you move up through the "gears" fairly quickly once you get to 2 dice. 

Perhaps instead we could start with 2d4, then have something like this:
1 - 2d4
2 - 2d4
3 - 2d6 
4 - 2d6
5 - 3d6
6 - 3d6
7 - 3d8
8 - 3d8
9 - 4d8
10- 4d8
11- 4d10
12- 4d10
13- 5d10
14- 5d10
15- 6d12
16- 6d12
17- 7d12
18- 7d12
19- 8d12
20 -8d12
 
Then the even "dead" levels on Dice can be the levels in which you learn new maneuvers and/or improve old ones. 
 



I'm kind of leery about getting past 4 or 5 dice I can see it really slowing the game down.  If they are going to go action economy mad in reactions, summoning etc. they should stick to it and not have the figher making 8ish descisions a turn.  On the other hand I thought 3 dice for riposte was ridiculous.  Anything that takes more than 1 die should be better than that.  At 3 dice it should be something like you get a free attack against everyone who attacks you in melee in the turn hit or miss.   


I'm kind of leery about getting past 4 or 5 dice I can see it really slowing the game down.  If they are going to go action economy mad in reactions, summoning etc. they should stick to it and not have the figher making 8ish descisions a turn.  On the other hand I thought 3 dice for riposte was ridiculous.  Anything that takes more than 1 die should be better than that.  At 3 dice it should be something like you get a free attack against everyone who attacks you in melee in the turn hit or miss.   



I don't think analysis paralysis is an inevitability:


  • Hit vs. Miss helps guide decision-making - offensive options only work if you've hit, which means if you miss, you don't waste those dice and have them "free" to turtle with. 

  • It's actually more of a dial vs. an action decision; first a Fighter needs to think about how far they want to extend themselves on Deadly Strike and/or Defense (which is a pretty intuitive, dial-style decision) versus whether they want to use a maneuver. 

  • Multi-Dice Maneuvers mean that as you level up, you're making a decision about whether to go virtually all-in on a special attack or save your dice. Which again is more of an intuitive dial decision. 

  • As I've suggested here, Fighters should be encouraged to write down and name particular combinations, which will speed up decision-making, especially once the D&D community have their collective way with the iterations for any length of time.

Race for the Iron Throne - political and historical analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire.
I enjoy listening to these guys and look forward to seeing them play at PAX. 

Aquisitions Inc. helped me figure out 4E.  
I believe just like vancian is the default for casters, should CS turn out to be popular, then it should be the default for all martial types. Just like wizards may have a different spells that a sorcerer, they still may share some common ones. The trick is not to overburden the CS mechanic, so feats, feat styles and/or weapon selections or styles are still important.

I am still against a skill specialist, but that is fine, since I rarely play rogues. However, anyone that does like a rogue is going to want features such as riposte, tumble, etc. They will want the skill bonuses and combat features.

The only other downside to CS is trackng dice each round and what has been used.
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