wizard encounters. Mearls says in.

For the wizard. The ones he described in l&l and how they could be short rest recovered. I'm not seeing any discussions about this. I have seen multiple posters say wizard won't have any E in the AEDU way... but, that is clearly not the intention.

So... who likes it? Who dislikes it? Why? Could it be an acceptable compromise? Do you think the sorcerer will get these E spells? If so, will he recover will power after a short rest?
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
So... nobody hates or likes this?
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
As long as they can be ignored with a "No AEDU mechanics game" without things falling apart, I'll be happy.  Just a personal preference.  So, mostly indifferent for the time being...

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I'm waiting to see how it's implemented, but anything that's not daily Vancian is a step in the right direction.
Formerly Batshido, Captain America of the 4vengers
Me and the players in my testing are very much looking forward to this. We feel this gives the wizard a bit more flexability and doesn't drastically change him from the clasic wizard as much as 4th did. We liked 4th but for keeping the classic feel it is not D and D. 

The ability to rememorizes less complex spells in empty slots makes the wizard able to last the full adventuring day rather than forcing the full rest as was done in earlier editions.

Red 
It's a sad state of affairs when DMs measure their success in total party kills and players in the damage they deal. Red
Likes on both accounts.. encounter abilities and yes love the idea of some will power recovery for  Sorcerors. (need to be careful about the number on this one).
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

The warlock gets the encounter refresh for spells. The warlock is likely to be left behing by the impatient rest of the party because he needs to sit on his arse resting after every fight.

Either that or he relies on his blasts all the time, but that isn't such a bad thing since they do as much damage as the dwarven fighter's giant ax.
If it allows me to play a balanced wizard without any dailies, It's perfect. 
I'd probably bat an eye when they announce encounter and (more) daily options for the Rogue and Fighters.

The warlock gets the encounter refresh for spells. The warlock is likely to be left behing by the impatient rest of the party because he needs to sit on his arse resting after every fight.

You mean like how everybody else has to do the same, in order to heal up? You may have to skip a rest if the Cleric has some heals available, but every battle after that one means your party will already be resting to spend HD, so nobody will bug you about getting your spells back.
The warlock gets the encounter refresh for spells. The warlock is likely to be left behing by the impatient rest of the party because he needs to sit on his arse resting after every fight.

You mean like how everybody else has to do the same, in order to heal up? You may have to skip a rest if the Cleric has some heals available, but every battle after that one means your party will already be resting to spend HD, so nobody will bug you about getting your spells back.



That's an idea.  HD usage to recover spells during rests...
You should be operating in a fight at 110 percent in a life and death fight and if you dont rest for a moment or three catching your breath/recovering short term fatigue afterwards? its utterly rediculous dont care what class you are.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Okay... so generally positive? Cool! I like the sound of it, but it seems as if current debates have ignored this point.

I am a bit curious abt the sorc recovering willpower (maintain a balance between spell blasts and.physical transformations?). I think all casters might end up needing a breather. I expect to see rogues/fighters sacrifice a dmg die for an encounter power which needs a breather to recover.

Clerics?
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
The warlock gets the encounter refresh for spells. The warlock is likely to be left behing by the impatient rest of the party because he needs to sit on his arse resting after every fight.

You mean like how everybody else has to do the same, in order to heal up? You may have to skip a rest if the Cleric has some heals available, but every battle after that one means your party will already be resting to spend HD, so nobody will bug you about getting your spells back.



That's an idea.  HD usage to recover spells during rests...



Nods I think this was suggested as a way to adjust the Sorceror to being completely encounter based then extend that by spending HD for additional effects. The HD being a daily resource.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Clerics?



I envision there abilties as being rewards for acting in the name of the divine.. so the more you press on the more the divine is willing to support you.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I welcome the news. Waiting to hear about martial classes now: it seems weird that they can have dailies but not encounters at the moment.
I envision there abilties as being rewards for acting in the name of the divine.. so the more you press on the more the divine is willing to support you.


On a similar subject, I like the idea of paladins being built around getting stronger the more dire the circumstances they find themselves in. So, at the start of the day, or in easy combats, they could be weaker than fighters. But then when they've taken a beating and they're up against the BBEG and their allies are close to death, then they get to give an awesome World of Cardboard speech and really cut loose.

I have absolutely no idea how you'd do that mechanically, but I think it would be awesome if it could be made to work.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Well, that looks like milestones could cover that quite nicely.

Im skeptical. All it takes is for one player to use dailies to ruin it for everyone else.
Where exactly did he announce it. I need a quote or a recording. I've been keeping on top of everything and all I've seen is them talk about the Warlock getting encounter spells...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
If it allows me to play a balanced wizard without any dailies, It's perfect. 

Me too. Truthfully, I'd be happy for an option to make all dailies go away.

You mean like how everybody else has to do the same, in order to heal up? You may have to skip a rest if the Cleric has some heals available, but every battle after that one means your party will already be resting to spend HD, so nobody will bug you about getting your spells back.



You can only take a short rest to regain HP if you have HD to use. The warlock needs to rest after every fight to get his encounter spells back. I can't see too many players wanting to wait on one player every time they have an encounter where the warlock uses his invocations. 

I know that this kind of thing will cause problems at my table especially if the party is assaulting a stronghold where speed is important. I guess if they add something for the fighter which needs a short rest to recover then it might be less of an issue since I have two players who prefer the martial characters over spell casters and they are very disdainful of casters whining about being low on spells.

Think about it, you're in the orc section of Blingdenstone would you want to stop for a ten minute rest everytime you run into a patrol? Then again the majority of those invocations are pretty useless, and the best of them for in combat use will have every monster in the complex on your backs in no time.

I personally dislike encounter powers and the Encounter paragdim they produce.  I can safely say that I will probably be cutting it if I can.  if Encounter-based design becomes the expectation nad not extractable, that might be what causes me to not buy into next.

Of course, we've yet to see the actuality of this, and when we do one can bet I'd  be providing my opinion thereupon.  Until then I can only give my opinion on encounter powers in the extreme generic, which is that I don't like them

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

You mean like how everybody else has to do the same, in order to heal up? You may have to skip a rest if the Cleric has some heals available, but every battle after that one means your party will already be resting to spend HD, so nobody will bug you about getting your spells back.



You can only take a short rest to regain HP if you have HD to use. The warlock needs to rest after every fight to get his encounter spells back. I can't see too many players wanting to wait on one player every time they have an encounter where the warlock uses his invocations. 

I know that this kind of thing will cause problems at my table especially if the party is assaulting a stronghold where speed is important. I guess if they add something for the fighter which needs a short rest to recover then it might be less of an issue since I have two players who prefer the martial characters over spell casters and they are very disdainful of casters whining about being low on spells.

Think about it, you're in the orc section of Blingdenstone would you want to stop for a ten minute rest everytime you run into a patrol? Then again the majority of those invocations are pretty useless, and the best of them for in combat use will have every monster in the complex on your backs in no time.




It depends on the need for speed between encounters (like having to get to point B as quick as possible to stop villian C from destroying the world); however, in most cases, a short rest usually doesn't have to be roleplayed.  It's not the party will actually stop play for five minutes for the warlock's player to catch his breath.
Where exactly did he announce it. I need a quote or a recording. I've been keeping on top of everything and all I've seen is them talk about the Warlock getting encounter spells...



I remember listening to it in one of the podcasts. I can´t excatly recall which one though...
I personally dislike encounter powers and the Encounter paragdim they produce.  I can safely say that I will probably be cutting it if I can.  if Encounter-based design becomes the expectation nad not extractable, that might be what causes me to not buy into next.

Of course, we've yet to see the actuality of this, and when we do one can bet I'd  be providing my opinion thereupon.  Until then I can only give my opinion on encounter powers in the extreme generic, which is that I don't like them



Have you re-downloaded the packet with the updated files. these classes are in them You can get some friends to test them if you want.
I personally dislike encounter powers and the Encounter paragdim they produce.  I can safely say that I will probably be cutting it if I can.  if Encounter-based design becomes the expectation nad not extractable, that might be what causes me to not buy into next.

Of course, we've yet to see the actuality of this, and when we do one can bet I'd  be providing my opinion thereupon.  Until then I can only give my opinion on encounter powers in the extreme generic, which is that I don't like them



So you would be in favor of a module that would allow you to change the Warlocks encounter powers for Vancian or spell point powers?
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Where exactly did he announce it. I need a quote or a recording. I've been keeping on top of everything and all I've seen is them talk about the Warlock getting encounter spells...



I remember listening to it in one of the podcasts. I can´t excatly recall which one though...



Yeah, I've listened to all of them. The only references to encounter powers have been in relation to the 'upcoming' Warlock class...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I personally dislike encounter powers and the Encounter paragdim they produce.  I can safely say that I will probably be cutting it if I can.  if Encounter-based design becomes the expectation nad not extractable, that might be what causes me to not buy into next.

Of course, we've yet to see the actuality of this, and when we do one can bet I'd  be providing my opinion thereupon.  Until then I can only give my opinion on encounter powers in the extreme generic, which is that I don't like them



So you would be in favor of a module that would allow you to change the Warlocks encounter powers for Vancian or spell point powers?


It might be interesting, but I don't need it.  I can do without the warlock if I want to play a "Magic" character.  (Especially if there are fiendish or fey bloodlines for sorcerer, it'd do a pretty good impression of the flavor space I get out of warlock.)

Frankly, it's easier to hack at the peripherals of a class than gut it of its core system for replacement.  Better to have options that make a wizard or sorc or 'lock resemble each other than to try swapping out casting systems underneath that.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: The general gist of all of this is that any class has several layers: It's mechanical skeleton, its vitals, it's "skin" with a lot of the peripheral bells and whistles, and then finally an aura of expected flavor. As you move outward, each layer has at least partial dependency on those beneath it: The Vitals have certain assumptions about the skeleton, the skin relies on the vitals.  The aura can be swapped out or altered trivially as it's non-mechanical.  The skin can be transplanted with only mild effort and good results since it's the only part that has to adapt.  If I want a "Spell Point Warlock", it would be far better for me to give the Warlock's skin to the Sorcerer than try to give the sorcerer's vitals to the warlock

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

The Warlock already has a Encounter power system: Patron's Favors. X times per encounter, you can 'cast' a Patron's Favor. It's like a 5-minute recharge take on Spontaneous Vancian. I haven't seen it in action yet, but it looks a lot like an Encounter power.
This would be a great step towards modularity.

Of course, what they REALLY need to do is put a hard wall between baked in class mechanics and casting system.

Then they'll be able to do totally "drop in drop out" casting systems without needing to do any extra work on feats or other options at all.

Everyone will get the casters they want and WotC will take another step towards REALLY creating the "edition to rule them all".     
This would be a great step towards modularity.

Of course, what they REALLY need to do is put a hard wall between baked in class mechanics and casting system.

Then they'll be able to do totally "drop in drop out" casting systems without needing to do any extra work on feats or other options at all.

Everyone will get the casters they want and WotC will take another step towards REALLY creating the "edition to rule them all".     



And think about how easy that would have been if they had kept the 4E paradigm:

Want full vancian caster? slot in just daily spells
Want an encounter caster? drop the dailies and replace with A and E
Want it all? Mix it up in a AED cocktail. 
Perhaps.

But a lot of the fans of older editions would have rage quit because they were forced to play in a 4th style system.

True modularity demands compromises from all of us.   
Where exactly did he announce it. I need a quote or a recording. I've been keeping on top of everything and all I've seen is them talk about the Warlock getting encounter spells...



I would suggest you read the legends abd lore article where the playtest download is announced. While others cite the podcasts, I am explicitly referring to that statement of how they want to develop the wizard. I just had not seen any discussion about it here.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
I would also like to point out that typing on a smartphone is a bummer sometimes.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
The Warlock already has a Encounter power system: Patron's Favors. X times per encounter, you can 'cast' a Patron's Favor. It's like a 5-minute recharge take on Spontaneous Vancian. I haven't seen it in action yet, but it looks a lot like an Encounter power.



Reflavor as studying ones spell books... and what do you have?
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

The Warlock already has a Encounter power system: Patron's Favors. X times per encounter, you can 'cast' a Patron's Favor. It's like a 5-minute recharge take on Spontaneous Vancian. I haven't seen it in action yet, but it looks a lot like an Encounter power.



Reflavor as studying ones spell books... and what do you have?



You have a caster with a completely different spell list from a Wizard with negative side effects and the inability to swap out spells...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Perhaps.

But a lot of the fans of older editions would have rage quit because they were forced to play in a 4th style system.

True modularity demands compromises from all of us.   

I think it's fair to say that the loss of the Vancian system is what drove many of the previous players away.  And numbers don't lie: 5th edition is not in the works because the 4th edition philosophy was a smashing success.   

A lot of people liked it's magic system, and it is a good game; but when poeple buy the D&D band there are certain expectations of characteristics- a certain feel, flavor, atmosphere.  And that was noticably lacking in 4th edition.  

There can be compromises to the vancian system- the ability to re-memorize spells, at least simple ones, with shorter periods of inactivity.  Perhaps the ability do do it on horseback while the party is travelling?   Having basic cantrips that can be expended frequently without the effort of memorization would be a start.  

The best proposed system I heard though is a time=complexity adjustment.  Those level 9 uber spells should require a good full nights preparation to get memorized; while a level one spell might just require an hour's study.


Yet for my recallection, the 15 minute workday is a myth.   Proper spell management is just one of the big costs to being a wizard.  Magic should be a special event; it shouldn't flung around like it was just another fighting move.   
Perhaps.

But a lot of the fans of older editions would have rage quit because they were forced to play in a 4th style system.

True modularity demands compromises from all of us.   

I think it's fair to say that the loss of the Vancian system is what drove many of the previous players away.  And numbers don't lie: 5th edition is not in the works because the 4th edition philosophy was a smashing success.   

A lot of people liked it's magic system, and it is a good game; but when poeple buy the D&D band there are certain expectations of characteristics- a certain feel, flavor, atmosphere.  And that was noticably lacking in 4th edition.  

There can be compromises to the vancian system- the ability to re-memorize spells, at least simple ones, with shorter periods of inactivity.  Perhaps the ability do do it on horseback while the party is travelling?   Having basic cantrips that can be expended frequently without the effort of memorization would be a start.  

The best proposed system I heard though is a time=complexity adjustment.  Those level 9 uber spells should require a good full nights preparation to get memorized; while a level one spell might just require an hour's study.


Yet for my recallection, the 15 minute workday is a myth.   Proper spell management is just one of the big costs to being a wizard.  Magic should be a special event; it shouldn't flung around like it was just another fighting move.   



The 5 minute work day is not a myth. It was experienced by many including me. 5E needs every customer it can get to reach the Hasbro sales goals and not be shelved for 5+ years with no support. That means all of the 1E, 2E, 3E, 4E, and pathfinder crowd as well as a good helping of new players. Their sales goal is $50,000,000.00+ which even 3E at its peak did not get half of.
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Perhaps.

But a lot of the fans of older editions would have rage quit because they were forced to play in a 4th style system.

True modularity demands compromises from all of us.   



Yes, it makes sense. Just noticing they had a very modular system already, which they ditched for something which, for what we have seen so far, looks less modular. Actually quite 'hard-coded'.
Time will tell. 
Perhaps.

But a lot of the fans of older editions would have rage quit because they were forced to play in a 4th style system.

True modularity demands compromises from all of us.   



Yes, it makes sense. Just noticing they had a very modular system already, which they ditched for something which, for what we have seen so far, looks less modular. Actually quite 'hard-coded'.
Time will tell. 



I tend to agree.

But there need to be compromises made to satisfy fans of all editions.

Otherwise not everyone will buy and WotC need EVERYONE to buy!