WOTC is desperated, Take a look a the new Sorcerer

Hit Dice: 1d8 per sorcerer level
Hit Points: 8 + your Constitution modifier
at 1st level, and 1d8 (or 5) + your
Constitution modifier per sorcerer level
gained
Armor and Shield Proficiencies: You
gain proficiency with all armor and shields.
Also, you are able to cast sorcerer spells while
wearing armor.
Weapon Proficiencies: You gain
proficiency with martial melee weapons. Also,
the bonus to your weapon attack rolls
increases by 1.

The new sorcerer just start the escalation "Each week a better class".
We just have to wait to the multi-class Rogue/Sorcerer and we will step back in the good old CharOp escalation.
The Dragon Sorcerer is more or less just a Psychic Warrior with a slightly more blasty (and less buffing) focus. It's probably fine. And even if it does turn out to be too good, that's why it's a playtest; it or other classes can be adjusted to make sure that they're more in line with each other.

Also, CharOp tends to hate escalation, since it reduces the number of interesting choices.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
What is "desperated"?
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley "The straw in your man is amazing."- Maxperson Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool Resident Hater Mini Hate Machine
Correction. Dragon Bloodline Sorcerers are Gishes. That HD, weapon and armor proficiency, ability to cast in armor, and bonus to attack all come from the Dragon bloodline, not from the Sorcerer class. And they also get a couple of static features which kick in after using X amount of spell points (Sorcerers are a spell point based class btw) and a couple of Bloodline-only features that use spell points.

Of course the OP neglected to mention the Sorcerer's paltry, combat-focused spell list, limited number of spells known, slower spell level progression (they get level 2 spells at Sorcerer level 4) and the lack of scaling for weapon attack (stays at a constant +3 for now), spell attack, and spell DC. Apparently, thems the breaks for daring to be a Spell-point based class.

 
Of course the OP neglected to mention the Sorcerer's paltry, combat-focused spell list, limited number of spells known, slower spell level progression (they get level 2 spells at Sorcerer level 4) and the lack of scaling for weapon attack (stays at a constant +3 for now), spell attack, and spell DC. Apparently, thems the breaks for daring to be a Spell-point based class.



Bring it over to a more positive thread I just made ;p... 
I want to make sure it as cool under the hood as it is flavor wise. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Sorcerers are gish now?


What gish means ? Dictionary refers to Dorothy and Lilian ??Wink

And this terms float around since the Sorcerer is out...


EDIT Nevermind. Wrecan's Glossary tip me off! (thanks Wrecan!)

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

At least people are only looking at the playtest material as new ideas, and not set-in-stone rules for what will be in 5E.
The sorcerer seems way too good, especially with the spell point system. The thing is that spell points become unbelievably awesome considering they've removed spell scaling. Which means that at higher levels, you won't ever care that you've got 1st level spell slots, so being able to turn them into higher level slots becomes crazy good.
EDIT Nevermind. Wrecan's Glossary tip me off! (thanks Wrecan!)


Yay!  I'm participating!
Sorcerers are gish now? I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


Yeah, that was my initial perception as well.

This could be a good thing though (if they keep these other casters balanced with the Wizard); it may open up doors for non-vancian classes that are essentially alternative casting Wizards.

Or, better yet, provide the impetus for making casting methods just another default module for the Wizard. I hope it goes this route, for the sake of the anti-vancian crowd.
Sorcerers are gish now? I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


Yeah, that was my initial perception as well. 



Only one heritage is Gish... others I expect to be blasters and so on.... 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.


I don't see how they've abandoned anything.  All I see is that WotC has provided alternate spellcasting mechanics as new classes.  It's to say "Sorcerer" or "my Warlock" than to say "Spell Point-using Wizard" or "my wizard that uses the AEU system" in playtest reports.

Sorcerers are gish now? I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


Yeah, that was my initial perception as well. 



Only one heritage is Gish... others I expect to be blasters and so on.... 


That is a different topic; but I agree, and hope to see more heritages that will expand on the concept (even a studious sorcerer who has fewer arcane limitations than the gish draconic bloodline).

I was just saying that they don't appear to be using the Sorcerer and Warlock in an attempt to appease the anti-Vancian Wizard crowd; and I don't think they should. I think it would be better to use the Wizard Tradition idea, mentioned in the latest podcast, [EDIT: (or some other module)] to make different casting methods available to Wizards. Here's hoping...
I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.



well there is one other small hope in the new penny arcade podcast sais wizards will also get wizard traditions like wild magic or war magic.
but these haven't been designed at this point.
They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.


I don't see how they've abandoned anything.  All I see is that WotC has provided alternate spellcasting mechanics as new classes.  It's to say "Sorcerer" or "my Warlock" than to say "Spell Point-using Wizard" or "my wizard that uses the AEU system" in playtest reports.


The sorcerer is not a spell-point using wizard.  You can't even reflavor the sorcerer into that.  This is because of a very clearly defined mechanical distinction (the ability to learn found spells) that comes from mechanically enforcing flavor.  Now if they want to mechanically enforce flavor, ok, but that removes the ability to just play the mechanics of the sorcerer class while being a wizard in flavor, and in the game world.  The devs can't promise modularity then reneg on it and not expect a backlash.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

I thought they wanted the sorcerer and the warlock to represent different ways of playing wizards, vacian free in other words.


They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.



well there is one other small hope in the new penny arcade podcast sais wizards will also get wizard traditions like wild magic or war magic.
but these haven't been designed at this point.


If that's the same thing mentioned by Mearls in another podcast, then he said it will "change the way wizards use spells."  Nice and vague.  That can be anything from altering casting times, keywords, or the save it targets, to actually changing the resource management subsystem.  And I really don't think they mean the latter.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

They abandoned that one quicker than the assertion that people could have characters with the feel of different editions at the same table.  Our only hope for non-vancian wizards now is either modular casting systems or houseruling.


I don't see how they've abandoned anything.  All I see is that WotC has provided alternate spellcasting mechanics as new classes.  It's to say "Sorcerer" or "my Warlock" than to say "Spell Point-using Wizard" or "my wizard that uses the AEU system" in playtest reports.


The sorcerer is not a spell-point using wizard.


You're right, and it shouldn't be.  A class is a class.

A spell-point using wizard should be a spell-point using wizard.

They have provided alternate spellcasting mechanics as new classes, but that does not mean that it's impossible to shift around which class has which casting mechanic.  The fluff is tied to the class, not to the mechanic.  A spell-point using wizard is still going to be a bookish caster with all of the wizardly trappings - a spell-slot sorcerer is still going to be a caster tapping into innate power of ancient bloodlines.

I for one highly expect this to happen - all three casting structures to be available to all three casting classes, with the fluff associated with the class, not the mechanical structure.  Is there anyone who objects to such a system?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
If that's the same thing mentioned by Mearls in another podcast, then he said it will "change the way wizards use spells."  Nice and vague.  That can be anything from altering casting times, keywords, or the save it targets, to actually changing the resource management subsystem.  And I really don't think they mean the latter.


Why don't you think they mean that?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition


I for one highly expect this to happen - all three casting structures to be available to all three casting classes, with the fluff associated with the class, not the mechanical structure.  Is there anyone who objects to such a system?



If they do this, and make sure all the red headed step child fluff in the L&L article is optional, that'll be awesome.
When is fluff ever not optional?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
But they haven't reneged on it.  That's the point.  The sorcerer is not a spell-point using wizard, and no one ever said it was.  It's a sorcerer.  And what the sorcerer does is serve as a vehicle to test spell points (in this case, called "willpower").

It does not by any means signify that WotC has abandoned modularity--only that they want to test a new system.  Once they sufficiently test a spell point system, it's a simple matter of then adapting that to the wizard class.

What would be confusing during testing is to make three different casting systems for the wizard.  Right now, if I refer to my wizard, you and everyone else know that I mean the Vancian arcane spellcaster class.  If they made the systems themselves modular right now, playtest reports would become confusing, as everyone talks about their wizard, but no one knows what type of wizard any one person means.  You would then have to explain further which type of casting your wizard actually used.

It's too early in the playtest to say that WotC has abandoned anything.  There is nothing modular about the playtest.  To assume that, almost two years from an expected release, the developers have already given up on any design goal is fallacious.  When we get closer to release, then it's the proper time to say that WotC has abandoned stuff.  But now, things are sharply delineated for the purpose of maintaining clarity in testing.
And what the sorcerer does is serve as a vehicle to test spell points (in this case, called "willpower").


The problem is that there are very few people who actually understand what "test" means.  They think that everything that is put out by WotC between now and release is "release candidate"-level content.  That if it's put out now, that means that This Is What They Believe, No Questions Asked.  That there's no room for change.  That there's nothing further, that this is what we're getting.

And they're completely wrong.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
If that's the same thing mentioned by Mearls in another podcast, then he said it will "change the way wizards use spells."  Nice and vague.  That can be anything from altering casting times, keywords, or the save it targets, to actually changing the resource management subsystem.  And I really don't think they mean the latter.


Why don't you think they mean that?


There is a long answer that includes a comparison to us (in the U.S.) not having widespread alternative energy because "it's hard," and because people don't want to put in the work.  However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

And what the sorcerer does is serve as a vehicle to test spell points (in this case, called "willpower").


The problem is that there are very few people who actually understand what "test" means.  They think that everything that is put out by WotC between now and release is "release candidate"-level content.  That if it's put out now, that means that This Is What They Believe, No Questions Asked.  That there's no room for change.  That there's nothing further, that this is what we're getting.

And they're completely wrong.


For my part, I do understand that these classes are testing the casting systems.  I also don't believe they will give us the ability to interchange them.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

For my part, I do understand that these classes are testing the casting systems.  I also don't believe they will give us the ability to interchange them.


That's certainly your prerogative.  I just think it's way too early to be calling them out on what you suspect might happen (or not happen, as the case may be).
However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.


....what?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
The sorcerer is not a spell point using wizard.  The sorcerer is an opportunity for them to test spell point mechanics in the current system, while also showing off how SOME OTHER CLASS might use those mechanics.


  

The warlock is not an AEDU wizard.  The warlock is an opportunity for them to test AEDU mechanics in the current system, while showing off how SOME OTHER CLASS might use those mechanics.


If these were the only classes that would be in the game and if these were the only builds for those classes - I can see why people might complain. 
 
    
  
       
But they are not - so I see it as premature to complain at this time. 


In fact, I think if they did waste their time testing new mechanics on nothing more than another version of the wizard rather than giving us a new class to test as well - I'd probably complain that it wasn't an efficient use of the playtest.  

   Carl
You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes.  Seriously it is the worst possible way to design the system.  classes will be casting style specific.  The Wizard, Warlock, and Sorc are easily reflavored/retextured to be like each other. Thats where the different  casting styles will show up.  Each one will have a gish, a blaster, etc, etc.  Reflavor to the taste you want.  The sorc takes a bit more effort to turn into a bookish character (requiring a bit of retexturing) however it can still be done.  Think of it this way take the current warlock and put vancian casting on it.  See how well that whole pact thing works out (hint: you won't have any  favors).  You would have to design a bunch of the pacts to work with vancian casting instead of the favors setup.  Essentially you would be designing an entirely different class, unfortunately that class is already defined and its called the Wizard.
The Wizard, Warlock, and Sorc are easily reflavored/retextured to fall short of your character concept.


There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.


....what?


I can explain it if you tell me what part is giving you difficulty.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.


....what?


I can explain it if you tell me what part is giving you difficulty.


The part where you say that you believe they don't mean it because you want them to mean it.  I have absolutely no clue what you mean.  It appears that you're saying that they're intentionally trying to avoid doing what you want them to do, which I don't understand.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.


....what?


I can explain it if you tell me what part is giving you difficulty.


The part where you say that you believe they don't mean it because you want them to mean it.  I have absolutely no clue what you mean.


Haven't you ever met anyone who expects the worst from others, so they're always prepared for it, and never disappointed by it, while hoping for the best?

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.




take the current sorc and put vancian casting in it and watch your bloodline do nothing because you have no willpower.
You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.




take the current sorc and put vancian casting in it and watch your bloodline do nothing because you have no willpower.


Sure you do.  It's just preallocated into spell-slots.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.




take the current sorc and put vancian casting in it and watch your bloodline do nothing because you have no willpower.


Sure you do.  It's just preallocated into spell-slots.




no you're using the vancian system not the willpower system.  there is no willpower here because that isn't the casting system you're using.
You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.




take the current sorc and put vancian casting in it and watch your bloodline do nothing because you have no willpower.


Sure you do.  It's just preallocated into spell-slots.




no you're using the vancian system not the willpower system.  there is no willpower here because that isn't the casting system you're using.


Of course there is willpower.  You're just changing the resource management system.  Instead of being spell points, it becomes spell levels.  3 willpower is 3 spell levels (1 lvl 3 spell, 1 lvl 2 & 1 lvl 1 spell, or 3 lvl 1 spells).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

However the short answer is that I believe they don't mean that because I want them to mean it.


....what?


I can explain it if you tell me what part is giving you difficulty.


The part where you say that you believe they don't mean it because you want them to mean it.  I have absolutely no clue what you mean.


Haven't you ever met anyone who expects the worst from others, so they're always prepared for it, and never disappointed by it, while hoping for the best?


Yes, I call them paranoid, depressed, pessimistic cynics.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
You guys don't even grasp why they won't be making 9 classes do you.  If they make each of the classes have access to the different casting styles they will effectively have to create 9 differnet classes. 


It's easy to take a spell-slot class and turn it into a spell-point class.  You assign each level a number of points, and then total up the points at each level, and plunk it down into a table.  It's less easy to take a spell-point class and turn it into a spell-slot class, but fortunately if you design both classes at the same time you can let both classes choose either structure.

You don't need to create a new class to swap out the casting structure.  The casting mechanic is not what defines a class.  It has had a one-to-one relationship in the past, but that does not mean that is the only way of doing things.




take the current sorc and put vancian casting in it and watch your bloodline do nothing because you have no willpower.


Sure you do.  It's just preallocated into spell-slots.




no you're using the vancian system not the willpower system.  there is no willpower here because that isn't the casting system you're using.


Of course there is willpower.  You're just changing the resource management system.  Instead of being spell points, it becomes spell levels.  3 willpower is 3 spell levels (1 lvl 3 spell, 1 lvl 2 & 1 lvl 1 spell, or 3 lvl 1 spells).




Sorcerous powers? how do you pay for them.
no you're using the vancian system not the willpower system.  there is no willpower here because that isn't the casting system you're using.


Of course there is willpower.  You're just changing the resource management system.  Instead of being spell points, it becomes spell levels.  3 willpower is 3 spell levels (1 lvl 3 spell, 1 lvl 2 & 1 lvl 1 spell, or 3 lvl 1 spells).

Dragon Strength becomes a level 1 spell, and Dragon Scales becomes a level 2 spell.  Your claws come out when you have expended a certain amount of spell levels.

Tadaa, vancian sorcerer heritage features.

Oh, and on the "spell levels" thing - trading out spell levels is an established mechanic in 3e casting.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition