Dinosaurs: Yes or No

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I see a lot of criticism about having Earth Dinosaurs in a D&D Fantasy - but how do you feel about Dinosaurs? Indeed how do you feel about Dinosaur Templates that can be combined with existing Fantasy Monsters?

Dinosaur Base: +10 Speed, +5 Natural Armor, +8 Spot and Listen

Variant
Armoured: +3 Natural Armor, -10 Speed

Subtypes
Plant Eater: +14 Str, -1 Dex, -1 Int
Raptor: +20 Speed, +10 Int, +7 Str, +2 Dex
Superpredator: +20 Str, +1 Dex, +10 Speed

(updated) 
The Citadel Megadungeon: http://yellowdingosappendix.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/the-citadel-mega-dungeon-now-with-room.html
I have run an entire "dinosaurs survived as the norm" campaign in the past, and I have a fondness for the "mysterious island" in just about any campaign. So for me, the question of "dinosaurs: yes or no?" is always answered with a "yes".

I have never needed the templates in the past, but I could see a use for them now that you have described them. However, it looks like you are using a system other than 4e in your adjustments, so I would be making my own.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Where do you get stats for the creatures ?
What possible basis could there be for not having "Earth" dinosaurs in a game that has other "Earth" animals in it?

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

Dinosaurs are the best way to bring the 5 year-old kid out of all your players. Who doesn't like DINOSAURS? Surely nobody I'd care to game with. So hell yeah, use 'em and put them in cool locations.

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
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My campaign setting has always had velociraptors, both wild and as sentinal/beast-master companions.  I use wolf/dire-wolf stat blocks for them. 

Originally I did this because, well, the raptor minis were cheaper than wolves.

It has done nothing but make the game more awesome though!  Bring on the dinosaurs! 
Though I'm sure you've got plenty of evidence already...

I totally agree.  Who doesn't love dinosaurs?  And if there's an issue of working them in, your world! =D

Also, who's going to protest the realism when the players get to interact with dinosaurs?

 
Also, who's going to protest the realism when the players get to interact with dinosaurs? 



Oh, I'm sure I could name a few names just from the forums. Fantasy realists love to spoil everyone's imaginative fun.

What's the coolest scene/encounter/adventure you guys've played or DMed in which dinosaurs were featured? 

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

For some reason I do not like dinosaurs in my games, usually cause I feel they set a different mood than the one I'm trying to create. Only exception would be velociraptors because I feel their size and speed make for a threat that's plausible and fits a big forest better than the huge hulking ones - although a single one in the middle of a magic forest might be something to indicate 'the pureness' of the forest it is in.. Not that I'd be upset if I'd play in a campaign that would use them, I am just not that inclined to use them myself.

Besides - their big cousins are in the name of the game, why go for less ;) 
Indeed how do you feel about Dinosaur Templates that can be combined with existing Fantasy Monsters?


I love dinosaurs and I love the idea of prehistoric versions of other D&D monsters.

Sabre-toothed displacer beasts
Bulletteasaurus
Koboldus erectus
Hydra-adon

Also, who's going to protest the realism when the players get to interact with dinosaurs? 



Oh, I'm sure I could name a few names just from the forums. Fantasy realists love to spoil everyone's imaginative fun.

What's the coolest scene/encounter/adventure you guys've played or DMed in which dinosaurs were featured? 



This makes me feel bad about not liking dinosaurs in my games...... 
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
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57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
This makes me feel bad about not liking dinosaurs in my games...... 



You should! Stop acting like such a grown-up...

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Indeed how do you feel about Dinosaur Templates that can be combined with existing Fantasy Monsters?


I love dinosaurs and I love the idea of prehistoric versions of other D&D monsters.

Sabre-toothed displacer beasts
Bulletteasaurus
Koboldus erectus
Hydra-adon




I like that idea!

I have fond memories of one of the Rogue-like computer games I played (Nethack), where my PC was Vork the Dwarf Caveman (Caveman was a kind of PCclass in that game)... something bad happened to the game on an unstable computer, and my efforts to fix the problem resulted in Vork the Caveman getting killed, somehow surviving getting killed, and later being attacked and killed for good by his own ghost.  So, I say bring on the undead Dwarven cavemen!


I've never had an opportunity to use dinosaurs in a game, but I have no special objection to them - I just have too much fun inventing my own offbeat monsters, or reinventing the more generic fantasy monsters.

Really, I feel that dinosaurs and other megafauna are right at home in the game:  many of the stranger ones are strange even compared to fantasy monsters.

I would say that the key to getting the most mileage out of using dinosaurs in the game is to never use their names:  avoid saying "you kick down the door to the 10'x10' room, and find a chest guarded by a Tyrannosaurus Rex - you may now start tossing dice at it!"  Instead, just describe it as the terrifying monster from an alien time and world that it really is:  a vast mouth full of sharp teeth, atrophied arms, blood-stained clawed feet, the rancid, overpowering stink of rotting meat and fishy musk, the huge, staring, dead, alien eyes like some freakish cross between a poisonous serpant and a bird of prey, the strange, low growling and drumming sounds of its voice rising to blood-curdling shrieks and wails, answered by other beasts in the distance.  Maybe the players' imaginations will conjure a dinosaur from the description, maybe they'll imagine something different, but, either way, I'll be satisified if they remember it as a horrifying monster, whether from the real world or from their own imaginations....

In fact, I find that other real-world creatures, and even fantasy creatures, benefit by never getting named, existing as little more than an impressionistic description for the Players' imaginations to fill in the blanks on, while wondering "what WAS that thing?!?"
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
There's no reason not to include them.  An individual DM can throw them out if he doesn't like them.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Also, who's going to protest the realism when the players get to interact with dinosaurs? 



Oh, I'm sure I could name a few names just from the forums. Fantasy realists love to spoil everyone's imaginative fun.

What's the coolest scene/encounter/adventure you guys've played or DMed in which dinosaurs were featured? 




Fantasy realists is such a comical oxymoron. 
People have problems with dinosaurs? But they're OK with dragons, orcs, trolls, and goblins? Real imaginative people.
I fight for freedom. I fight for justice. I fight for honor. I fight for VENGEANCE.Beware, all you monsters, all you villains, for you have unleashed the wrath of Edward Darkforest. May your god have pity on your soul. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDGJr6LOiw&feature=share Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
People have problems with dinosaurs? But they're OK with dragons, orcs, trolls, and goblins? Real imaginative people.

Well, I can understand wanting consistency, even in a completely outlandish game, and believing that one aspect or another contradicts it. Look at the lengths to which people will go to rationalize Star Trek. They build up in their minds the way that the universe could be real, and it's jarring to them when they encounter something that throws a wrench in that.

This is why I hate "immersion."

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.


 I have no problem with dinosaurs in my campaigns, but I rarely use them - the adventures I write just never seem to take place in an area where they'd be appropriate, and I haven't gone out of my way to write them into a campaign.

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 I have no problem with dinosaurs in my campaigns, but I rarely use them - the adventures I write just never seem to take place in an area where they'd be appropriate, and I haven't gone out of my way to write them into a campaign.





That's pretty much me:  no problem with them, but I've just never run an adventure where I think "what this needs is some dinosaurs...."

Which, now that I think of it, sounds like a challenge I should accept sometime
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
So the Player Characters encounter DinoKobolds who are invading through a Temporal Anomaly?
The Citadel Megadungeon: http://yellowdingosappendix.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/the-citadel-mega-dungeon-now-with-room.html
I'm very much a classical/high fantasy buff, hordes of orcs ravaging the countryside while wizards weave enchantments to change the face of the realm-type stories, and dinosaurs really have no place in that. If I'm playing in a game and someone uses dinos, then I'm cool with it.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I'm very much a classical/high fantasy buff, hordes of orcs ravaging the countryside while wizards weave enchantments to change the face of the realm-type stories, and dinosaurs really have no place in that. If I'm playing in a game and someone uses dinos, then I'm cool with it.



Why not orcs riding heavily-armored war triceratops, charging into enemy lines in order to punch a hole wide enough for the ankylosaurus seige brigade to make their way toward the castle walls?

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Why not orcs riding heavily-armored war triceratops, charging into enemy lines in order to punch a hole wide enough for the ankylosaurus seige brigade to make their way toward the castle walls?


Although I am in favor of dinosaurs, I can give a "why not" reason...

Dinosaurs have a real world historical time frame. And that time frame is not the medieval sword-and-steel-age. The default assumption in D&D is that sword and steel exists and guns do not. (Yes, many people add guns to their world.) Because the default implies a medieval world, it becomes slightly jarring to the imagination to see a real world dinosaur in a fantasy medieval world in the same way t would seem jarring to see a dinosaur in a King Arthur movie. It is anachronistic within the fictional context.

That said, I love the idea of a dinosaurs-did-not-die-in-Noah's flood campaign.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Dinosaurs have a real world historical time frame. And that time frame is not the medieval sword-and-steel-age. The default assumption in D&D is that sword and steel exists and guns do not. (Yes, many people add guns to their world.) Because the default implies a medieval world, it becomes slightly jarring to the imagination to see a real world dinosaur in a fantasy medieval world in the same way t would seem jarring to see a dinosaur in a King Arthur movie. It is anachronistic within the fictional context.



How about those giant mammoth-like elephants in LotR?

What if we called the triceratops a "horned lizard" and the ankylosaurus "macetail?" Would that work then or still too jarring?

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Things survived so called doom in the fantasy world, so why not?  Maybe dragons spawned/evolved from that?  But really, the question is DINOSAURS!  The answer is always YES!

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Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
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How about those giant mammoth-like elephants in LotR?

Mammoth-like elephants in a literary work of fiction that gets transported into a game based on that work of fiction has three degrees of separation from the real world. The elephants are mammoth-like. They appear in a book written by a master author. The game is based on that book. So, although the appearance of mammoths in LotR *might* be imaginatively jarring, the faithfulness of the game to the book removes any such concern.
What if we called the triceratops a "horned lizard" and the ankylosaurus "macetail?"

For me, that would not only remove any concern about dinosaurs in a standard campaign, but would also be extremely attractive. (And this does touch on my preference for dinosaurs as appearing in a "lost island" or "hidden valley" environment, rather than as a standard part of the standard game world.)
Would that work then or still too jarring?

Again, I am offering explanation, for the discomfort of others, and not necessarily agreement.

Reskinning or reflavoring will almost always remove my concern for anachronistic elements in a game. For example, I allow psionics rules but not psionics in my game. For me, psionics is sci-fi, not fantasy. And I prefer my D&D to be fantasy. Reflavor any psionic character as "mind magic" and it's good to go. Shamans have their spirits. Clerics hve their deities. Wizards have their books. Sorcerers have their passion. And Psions have their minds. I just refer to the latter as Wizards (of a slightly different flavor).
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Dinosaurs have a real world historical time frame. And that time frame is not the medieval sword-and-steel-age. The default assumption in D&D is that sword and steel exists and guns do not. (Yes, many people add guns to their world.) Because the default implies a medieval world, it becomes slightly jarring to the imagination to see a real world dinosaur in a fantasy medieval world in the same way t would seem jarring to see a dinosaur in a King Arthur movie. It is anachronistic within the fictional context.

Interesting. I feel like a lot of people want games that are simply like what they imagine medieval European society to be like, except that magic actually works, techological development is frozen, and magical creatures actually exist.

Others like to expand that out to the entire world, and bring in kung-fu monks and samurai who can therefore plausibly wind up in the medieval setting. Still others like to expand it out to the whole timeline, and assume that the entire history that might plausibly have brought about something like a medieval European world is in fact drastically different. Or, more likely, they don't consider the ramifications at all, and just let in every cool thing that might exist which, given the existance of magic and capricious deities, is everything.

There's no actual logical "reason" not to allow dinosaurs, or anything else. That preference is based entirely on feel. Any logical reasons are then tacked on later.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

It's believed that the idea of certain animals, such as griffins, and probably dragons, too, arose due to the unexplainable bones that were sometimes found by ancient people. The original inspiration for the griffin might actually have been a ceratopsian of some kind.

(edit: The wikipedia post mentions this theory: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin

Also, it appears that "Griffon" is a kind of dog breed, and a D&D monster. "Griffin" is the name of the mythological creature.)

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

Yes. I love including dinosaurs in campaigns. If bears can exist in a world with dragons, why not dinosaurs? In fact, I built a campaign world full of dinosaurs (called drakes) where birds never evolved, and during a war a group of wizards magically engineered some of them into magic-resistant, intelligent super-dinos.
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For example, I allow psionics rules but not psionics in my game. For me, psionics is sci-fi, not fantasy. And I prefer my D&D to be fantasy. Reflavor any psionic character as "mind magic" and it's good to go. Shamans have their spirits. Clerics hve their deities. Wizards have their books. Sorcerers have their passion. And Psions have their minds. I just refer to the latter as Wizards (of a slightly different flavor).



Interesting, we share a similar view on psionics. I'm not sure I can boil it down to the fantasy/sci-fi divide (is that a thing?), but I've always kind of felt it was tacked on or otherwise "didn't belong." I allow it in my games unchanged which may be why I find the "nah-uh, not in my game" crowd a little hard to comprehend at times. Still, not sure why I have psionics on my pay-no-mind list.

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Interesting, we share a similar view on psionics. I'm not sure I can boil it down to the fantasy/sci-fi divide (is that a thing?), but I've always kind of felt it was tacked on or otherwise "didn't belong." I allow it in my games unchanged which may be why I find the "nah-uh, not in my game" crowd a little hard to comprehend at times. Still, not sure why I have psionics on my pay-no-mind list.

Psionics have always been a weird addition to the game, even though they were even in 1st edition. I don't know if anyone knows what Gygax was thinking. For most of his choices, you can point to an influential book or myth and see where it might have come from, but not psionics, as far as I know.

I like them, but as with dinosaurs it's not for any real reason. It's partly just to be contrary, since so many people reject them out of hand.

(I see that Traveller was the first game to use the term "Psionics." I believe it was always an optional part of character creation. Gygax, never one to let a need for originality stand in his way, might have seen that, and decided to spice up his own game with it.

I also wonder if he recognized some failings in the Vancian system and wanted to offer an alternative magic system out-of-the-box.)

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

I suppose with me, I've just always liked monsters and weird settings in general, and D&D seems like a way to deliver both of those things.  Fantasy-world versions of dinosaurs, and lost-world, mysterious island, and hollow-earth settings would be excellent vehicles for this purpose.

I've always kind of liked the idea of psionics in theory, but I've always avoided them in D&D:  they always seemed like more work than they were worth.


So the Player Characters encounter DinoKobolds who are invading through a Temporal Anomaly?



Please, tell me that's a Primeval reference!  I love that program!   (And, strange monsters-of-the-week getting dumped out of Temporal Anomalies into a pseudo-medievel game world while a crack team of PC experts tries to perform damage control sounds like a fun basis for a campaign, now that you seem to be mentioning it....)



[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
I see that Traveller was the first game to use the term "Psionics."

Wow. I didn't realize Traveller was that old. Was going to point out that you had your dates wrong, looked it up and: 1977. O.o . . . . I wonder if my old Traveller books are in my parents' house somewhere.

Incidentally, someone found a page for me on which Gygax is quoted as saying that he regrets including psionics and that somebody talked him into it:


pc.gamespy.com/articles/538/538820p3.htm...

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

Incidentally, someone found a page for me on which Gygax is quoted as saying that he regrets including psionics and that somebody talked him into it:


pc.gamespy.com/articles/538/538820p3.htm...




What he says about 3.5 ed is interesting.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
What he says about 3.5 ed is interesting.

I don't see anything specifically about that, just about "current Dungeons & Dragons games" which I suppose would have been 3.5 at the time.

I wonder what he thought is the difference between a game master and an entertainer. I have my own thoughts on it.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

What he says about 3.5 ed is interesting.

I don't see anything specifically about that, just about "current Dungeons & Dragons games" which I suppose would have been 3.5 at the time




That's what I mean.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
This may be moving back to the original topic and a little far removed from where its gone. But one the question of a game involving dinosaurs I've been looking at running a Dinotopia Campaign at some point. I adore the books and thereby approve a game in which they are a common means of livelihood and or companions to the party and the rest of the world. I guess my doubts in such a campaign would be keeping player knowledge/character knowledge completely separate. Unless a character was a cleric that commonly dealt with the great reptillians having complete bone structures from real world dinos and a vague idea of where their organs would sit would concern me a little bit because players would be inclined to try and use that to their advantage. (I've dealt with a few rules lawyers recently who weren't so good at that). However with the right people pulling both the footpad based language and sentient dinosaurs would seem amusing. Ideally you could set up something similar where technology wasn't exactly 22nd Century stuff, more along the lines of a world where the inventions of the Renaissance grand Architects like Divinci would be prevelent. Rickshaw taxis pulled by a dinosaur. Currency in a little older system perhaps. 

If you wanted something a little less "stolen" just adding dinosaurs to your encounters could make things interesting. I would look at the various 3.5 MM books as they have quite a few good examples that could then be pulled for some of the so called "Earth" dinosaurs. It would also depend on which era you would want to play in. Pliestocine versus Jurassic makes a huge difference in size, behavior and boldness. Also in obvious species. A mix of the Eras existing in different Climes is usually interesting, with mammoths and sabercats in a colder climate and dinosaurs being prevelant in jungles, plains, and even a few extremiphile species in the hot deserts  . I hope a few of my comments were useful. It also made me think a little bit about the game I am developing. Interesting notions. Thanks for bringing it up.  
This may be moving back to the original topic and a little far removed from where its gone. But one the question of a game involving dinosaurs I've been looking at running a Dinotopia Campaign at some point. I adore the books and thereby approve a game in which they are a common means of livelihood and or companions to the party and the rest of the world. I guess my doubts in such a campaign would be keeping player knowledge/character knowledge completely separate. Unless a character was a cleric that commonly dealt with the great reptillians having complete bone structures from real world dinos and a vague idea of where their organs would sit would concern me a little bit because players would be inclined to try and use that to their advantage. (I've dealt with a few rules lawyers recently who weren't so good at that). However with the right people pulling both the footpad based language and sentient dinosaurs would seem amusing. Ideally you could set up something similar where technology wasn't exactly 22nd Century stuff, more along the lines of a world where the inventions of the Renaissance grand Architects like Divinci would be prevelent. Rickshaw taxis pulled by a dinosaur. Currency in a little older system perhaps. ....  



That sounds like a rather fun campaign world, I think.  I like the advanced Renaissance technology, too:  with the recent "steam-punk" fad and the old pseudo-medievel settings both feeling a bit stale, I find your idea of using inspiration from Da Vinci's inventions instead to be rather refreshing.

I'm not familiar with Dinotopia, but what you describe sounds like it could be a fun way to use Dinosaurs. 

I'd be tempted to try something like that, in a game world where mammals are outsiders to the world, and where variations on lizardfolk fill the roles normally held by Dwarves and Elves and so on, and where dinosaurs fill the roles that wolves, bears, horses, and so on would normally dominate.

A kind of reverse of the Temporal Anomaly idea suggested earlier:  the humans in the settings are the descendents of people who found their way into the world.

Meanwhile, lurking in the bogs and deserts and marshes in the "Mysterious Islands" and "Lost Worlds" far beyond civilization, are the monstrous holdovers from a more primitive age in this setting, filling the roles of lizardfolk and dinosaurs and dragons in any other setting: freakish, cthonic, spineless, soft-bodied, cambrian horrors:  nightmarish molluscs, anemones, sponges, polyps, lobstrosities, amphibious arachnids, worms, and worse, sometimes worshipped by loutish and backwards tribes of primitive Troglodytes....
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri