Hit Dice

What the heck are the hit dice for?  Are they just the new healing surge re-branded with an old school name?  I see that I can use a healing kit to spend and hitdice and get hp back.  Is that all their for, do healing spells cast on you use a hit dice to activate as well ala healing surges in 4th edition, or do they just heal you like in 3.5?  How about potions? Thanks.
You pretty much got it.  I think most spells and potions don't require a hit die be used, but after combat healing functions very similar to 4E healing surges.
What the heck are the hit dice for?  Are they just the new healing surge re-branded with an old school name?

yup

though they're not related to class-ability healing at all, just passive healing
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
and they ditched the things that made healing surges most intresting to me, being the move from healing a number of hitpoints to persentile healing
and they ditched the things that made healing surges most intresting to me, being the move from healing a number of hitpoints to persentile healing



This. I'd rather lose hit dice and get back all healing goes based off percentile of hit points.
So the age old issue of being able to potion push through a tough fight is back?  Bleh.  I think I'll make them work just like surges.  Surges were one of the best things in 4th ed in my opinion.
Give your players the Healer's Touch feat instead of reworking the mechanic.

Much easier.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

and they ditched the things that made healing surges most intresting to me, being the move from healing a number of hitpoints to persentile healing



You do realize that 4e healing surges are precentile healing, right?

And that HD are also percentile healing?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I dislike all of it.  But the good thing is that since spells and magic items don't depend on the concept I'm not trapped into using them.  I'll probably drop HD altogether and just put in a standard mundane healing rule from a prior edition.   The only question for me will be if I need to boost magical healing any or not.

 

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

Give your players the Healer's Touch feat instead of reworking the mechanic.

Much easier.

i wanna use HD as a way of limiting the number of times the players can heal in a day, not use it to fix the amount of damage healed.
Another question that should probably be asked in different thread, but I created it so I'm a hijack it.  The cleric can't spont cast any more like in 3.5, so the cleric will only use his spell slots for healing spells then....?  Also how many times can the cleric cast Turn Undead, it states that it's always prepared and that it doesn't count against spell slots but not how often you can use it.
I also like spont. casting for healing spels in 3.0-5 and hope they make a return.
I also like spont. casting for healing spels in 3.0-5 and hope they make a return.

It wasn't needed in 4th due to it's power system but in a game with limited spells, unless you want the cleric to NEVER venture into the buffing or offencive wilderness (wich is a load of fun to do with a cleric) spont. cast needs to make a come back.  
5E also loses how 4E made HP into an encounter resource, removed from long term attrition and having the game assume you star each encounter at full HP, shifting the attrition to surges which didn't effect the encounter unless they were reduced to zero and you needed to use one.

In 5E, if we want non-attrition based play we're going to have to hand out infinite potions or bring back the Wand of Cure Light Wounds. 
...whatever
Give your players the Healer's Touch feat instead of reworking the mechanic.

Much easier.

i wanna use HD as a way of limiting the number of times the players can heal in a day, not use it to fix the amount of damage healed.



I don't understand.  HD is a way to limit the number of times the players can heal after combat/damage, outside of spells, pots, and magic items.  Wouldn't the problem be more about HD being limited to its randomness?

I thought you said something about making HD work like 4E surges.  In a covert way, HD already do.


"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Give your players the Healer's Touch feat instead of reworking the mechanic.

Much easier.

i wanna use HD as a way of limiting the number of times the players can heal in a day, not use it to fix the amount of damage healed.



I don't understand.  HD is a way to limit the number of times the players can heal after combat/damage, outside of spells, pots, and magic items.  Wouldn't the problem be more about HD being limited to its randomness?

I thought you said something about making HD work like 4E surges.  In a covert way, HD already do.



As far as how many times you can heal I mean.  In 4th ed if you had 6 healing surges, you could only receive healing 6 times a day.  If there was a way to have HD work in that fashion it would be great.  I hate how you can just slug potions and get heal spelled as many times a day as needed.  Healing is used with wild abandon in that case, if you say, you can only be healed X times a day, players are more careful and tactful.  Does that make better sence?
Ah okay. 

Still, not sure potion slogging will be the prediction.  The game I am running might be different once someone takes a substancial beating.  But I let the wizard/healer brew two potions for his two companions.  There are only three of them in the caves atm.

I wouldn't let the healing in the playtest stop you from running a game tho.

EDIT: 3 3rd level adventurers...no clerics!

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Another question that should probably be asked in different thread, but I created it so I'm a hijack it.  The cleric can't spont cast any more like in 3.5, so the cleric will only use his spell slots for healing spells then....?  Also how many times can the cleric cast Turn Undead, it states that it's always prepared and that it doesn't count against spell slots but not how often you can use it.



you seem to misunderstand cleric casting

the no longer hard prepare slots. they prepare to spells to later cast spontaneously

take the 1st level cleric. he has 2 first level spell slots. you can prepare any two first level spells, you also have as a bonus your domain spell prepared and turn undead.

what this means is that you can cast any combination of all your prepared spells using your standard spells per day. so the first level cleric could cast any combination of 2 first level spells
I dislike all of it.  But the good thing is that since spells and magic items don't depend on the concept I'm not trapped into using them.  I'll probably drop HD altogether and just put in a standard mundane healing rule from a prior edition.   The only question for me will be if I need to boost magical healing any or not.


I like the HDs, though I prefer surges.  It comes as no surprise that we differ on this; we've been round and round on this issue before.  However, in the spirit of cooperation, I offer this simple suggestion.  You may not need to boost magical healing.  You might just need to convert HDs into HPs.  That maintains the assumption of the healing through HDs in the math, without requiring you to use the mechanic the way it was built.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

I dislike all of it.  But the good thing is that since spells and magic items don't depend on the concept I'm not trapped into using them.  I'll probably drop HD altogether and just put in a standard mundane healing rule from a prior edition.   The only question for me will be if I need to boost magical healing any or not.


I like the HDs, though I prefer surges.  It comes as no surprise that we differ on this; we've been round and round on this issue before.  However, in the spirit of cooperation, I offer this simple suggestion.  You may not need to boost magical healing.  You might just need to convert HDs into HPs.  That maintains the assumption of the healing through HDs in the math, without requiring you to use the mechanic the way it was built.



I think your solution might make characters too strong since they get all their healing up front.  But I appreciate your attempting a solution.

I've played around with ideas on the whole healing issue.   I'm also cognizant of people not always wanting a cleric.   Here is a list of preconditions that I'd probably put on myself if I designed a system.

1.  Healing has to always work when used.  No limit.  (out of surges etc...).  5e supports this now.
2.  Rapid healing is the province of magic.  Mundane healing is relatively slow.  I've played with faster modes but I'm swinging against those ideas now after chewing on them for a while.   5e doesn't really support his yet.  But I'm hoping for a module.
3.  I like the new low hit points and don't want PCs with 500 hit points at 20th or 30 at 1st.  I like 14 for a fighter and 4 for a wizard at 1st.  5e currently supports this.

I've played with the idea of an alchemist background/specialty/theme that would permit the creation of potions with a one day shelf life that were cheap.   I've had similar thoughts about scrolls that were scribed according to the position of the planets and moons and thus good for one day.  I don't want characters with excessive healing like 3e where you could buy unlimited wands for super cheap.  But I do want healing to be magical.




 

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

Another question that should probably be asked in different thread, but I created it so I'm a hijack it.  The cleric can't spont cast any more like in 3.5, so the cleric will only use his spell slots for healing spells then....?  Also how many times can the cleric cast Turn Undead, it states that it's always prepared and that it doesn't count against spell slots but not how often you can use it.



you seem to misunderstand cleric casting

the no longer hard prepare slots. they prepare to spells to later cast spontaneously

take the 1st level cleric. he has 2 first level spell slots. you can prepare any two first level spells, you also have as a bonus your domain spell prepared and turn undead.

what this means is that you can cast any combination of all your prepared spells using your standard spells per day. so the first level cleric could cast any combination of 2 first level spells

No i Understand that completely.  So I guess the answer is a cleric can cast Turn undead as many times a day as he has spells.  So if I use both my spells that day to heal people, I'm done.  I hate that you have to prepare healing spells and can't spont. cast them like you could in 3.5.
Channel Divinity gives you a few automatic heals per day, plus whatever else you prepare.  Seems okay to me, but I still need to test run.

More importantly, the number of hitdice you get, combined with the HP formula, tells me this.  The amount of HP you can 'naturally' recover through short rests using healer's kits in a day is, on average, roughly equal to your maximum HP.  Hit dice when used are die+CON, which is also how much HP you get per level, and you have one hit die per level.  It balances out.

This works for me.  You basically have a buffer of endurance that means if you go from fresh to half your endurance for the day in one battle, you're going to go down.  Hit dice being randomized makes that not exactly 50% - I prefer the random factor, but others might wind up houseruling that hit dice get the same 'automatic' result that rolling for hit points can take.

So, in summary, you can recover up to your maximum HP in a day - magical healing adds on to that because magic.  4e's healing surges were a quarter of your health, so it's like being fixed at 4 surges per day, but powers of others don't burn them and you can split those surges up into (level) pieces.
Channel Divinity gives you a few automatic heals per day, plus whatever else you prepare.  Seems okay to me, but I still need to test run.

More importantly, the number of hitdice you get, combined with the HP formula, tells me this.  The amount of HP you can 'naturally' recover through short rests using healer's kits in a day is, on average, roughly equal to your maximum HP.  Hit dice when used are die+CON, which is also how much HP you get per level, and you have one hit die per level.  It balances out.

This works for me.  You basically have a buffer of endurance that means if you go from fresh to half your endurance for the day in one battle, you're going to go down.  Hit dice being randomized makes that not exactly 50% - I prefer the random factor, but others might wind up houseruling that hit dice get the same 'automatic' result that rolling for hit points can take.

So, in summary, you can recover up to your maximum HP in a day - magical healing adds on to that because magic.  4e's healing surges were a quarter of your health, so it's like being fixed at 4 surges per day, but powers of others don't burn them and you can split those surges up into (level) pieces.

I just never liked that you could drink and infinate amount of potions and get healed an infinate amount of times.  It seems to me that your body would have a limit even if the healing was from a magical source.  THat what I like about the surge system, not the static amoun of HP gained but the limit on how many times you could be healed.
Channel Divinity gives you a few automatic heals per day, plus whatever else you prepare.  Seems okay to me, but I still need to test run.

More importantly, the number of hitdice you get, combined with the HP formula, tells me this.  The amount of HP you can 'naturally' recover through short rests using healer's kits in a day is, on average, roughly equal to your maximum HP.  Hit dice when used are die+CON, which is also how much HP you get per level, and you have one hit die per level.  It balances out.

This works for me.  You basically have a buffer of endurance that means if you go from fresh to half your endurance for the day in one battle, you're going to go down.  Hit dice being randomized makes that not exactly 50% - I prefer the random factor, but others might wind up houseruling that hit dice get the same 'automatic' result that rolling for hit points can take.

So, in summary, you can recover up to your maximum HP in a day - magical healing adds on to that because magic.  4e's healing surges were a quarter of your health, so it's like being fixed at 4 surges per day, but powers of others don't burn them and you can split those surges up into (level) pieces.



Problems with this comparison: 
-In 4e, having 8 surges was pretty normal. Having 12+ as a defender was expected. Having effectively 4 for everyone is a huge step back.

-At low levels, the healing is all packed into a single die. Rather than having 4 surges of 25% of your hp, you get 1 use of your full hp. This means after one encounter where you need to heal any amount, you're done. This is again a huge step backward. I would argue this is actually the much bigger problem.  Especially with hit points as low as they are in the current packet.

-In 4e when you used magical healing you'd get to heal for a healing surge PLUS some amount. That plus some amount was the bonus for being special, rather than normal healing.  Personally I wouldn't mind somewhere where a Cleric's healing work is surge value + 1d6, and if you're out of surges, just get 1d6 (so yeah the cleric can still heal you while you're tapped out, but it's far less effective). But the way it currently is is both too much and too little at the same time. The values are too low to really be worthwhile in combat (I can heal for 1d8+4, or I can harm for 4d8. That alone should say "Hey we did something funky with our healing values"), but add such a huge amount relative to the non-combat healing you have without a cleric, it becomes completely necessary for long term survivability.

I'd much rather see the oppose happen, where Clerics and Warlords and whatever are used for in combat staying power, while hit dice/healing surges are the primary driving force for hp recovery out of combat. 
I just never liked that you could drink and infinate amount of potions and get healed an infinate amount of times.  It seems to me that your body would have a limit even if the healing was from a magical source.  THat what I like about the surge system, not the static amoun of HP gained but the limit on how many times you could be healed.


AD&D inspired potion variant rule.  Mixing potions in your gullet is bad news.  Your gut needs time to digest the magic from a potion before another can be used.

Effect:  You may only gain the effects from one potion until you take a long rest.  Drinking another potion has no effect and causes (roll on table of special effects).
I just never liked that you could drink and infinate amount of potions and get healed an infinate amount of times.  It seems to me that your body would have a limit even if the healing was from a magical source.  THat what I like about the surge system, not the static amoun of HP gained but the limit on how many times you could be healed.


AD&D inspired potion variant rule.  Mixing potions in your gullet is bad news.  Your gut needs time to digest the magic from a potion before another can be used.

Effect:  You may only gain the effects from one potion until you take a long rest.  Drinking another potion has no effect and causes (roll on table of special effects).

Thats closer to what I'm looking for but a little to heavy handed.  We used to house rule how many pots you could slug to 6 a day, but the wand of cure light wounds was the work around to that.  
Channel Divinity gives you a few automatic heals per day, plus whatever else you prepare.  Seems okay to me, but I still need to test run.
 




Channel Divinity gives you ONE free heal a day.  Still kinda short.
You messed up your quoting there
You messed up your quoting there

So I did.  You still smell what I'm shoveling though right?
I just never liked that you could drink and infinate amount of potions and get healed an infinate amount of times.  It seems to me that your body would have a limit even if the healing was from a magical source.  THat what I like about the surge system, not the static amoun of HP gained but the limit on how many times you could be healed.


AD&D inspired potion variant rule.  Mixing potions in your gullet is bad news.  Your gut needs time to digest the magic from a potion before another can be used.

Effect:  You may only gain the effects from one potion until you take a long rest.  Drinking another potion has no effect and causes (roll on table of special effects).

Thats closer to what I'm looking for but a little to heavy handed.  We used to house rule how many pots you could slug to 6 a day, but the wand of cure light wounds was the work around to that.  


The 4e answer to the wand of cure light wounds problem was incredibly simple - don't have them.

Basically, if the problem is in magic items, no need to try to fix it through healing rules.  As long as the healing rules work for everything else except for when magic items are included, just fix the magic items.
I dislike all of it.  But the good thing is that since spells and magic items don't depend on the concept I'm not trapped into using them.  I'll probably drop HD altogether and just put in a standard mundane healing rule from a prior edition.   The only question for me will be if I need to boost magical healing any or not.


I like the HDs, though I prefer surges.  It comes as no surprise that we differ on this; we've been round and round on this issue before.  However, in the spirit of cooperation, I offer this simple suggestion.  You may not need to boost magical healing.  You might just need to convert HDs into HPs.  That maintains the assumption of the healing through HDs in the math, without requiring you to use the mechanic the way it was built.



I think your solution might make characters too strong since they get all their healing up front.  But I appreciate your attempting a solution.


Really?  That's kind of a surprise.  I can't say that I've actually tried it yet, but if you're taking the average result of the HD and making it bonus HPs, I'm not sure how that's too strong.  At first level it would largely eliminate the "I can die on any given round" feel of combat, but it's not substantially different than giving every PC max HPs each time they level.  As I said though, I haven't actually tried using it yet.

Another option would be to allow the cleric to perform a minor miracle, or cheap healing ritual out of combat, that lets PCs spend their HDs.  This would preserve the magic-only healing you want, would keep HD healing out of combat (as it currently is), and would allow the PCs to maintain the amount of healing the system expects of them.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Sign In to post comments