Rogues are Thieves again

I'm not crazy about the rogue Scheme mechanic whereby they get a second background chosen from a limited list.


  • It doesn't say they only get a mechanical benefit, it says they get the whole background.  This means rogues must have been either a thief or a thug before adventuring.  Kind of limits RP.

  • The above gets silly when you combine it with certain "normal" backgrounds, e.g. Knight+Thief.  You can certainly explain it with some creativity, but it's strange that you have to.

  • If you're only supposed to gain the mechanical benefit and not an RP background, you have the reverse problem: what if you want to be a former thief with the Thief scheme?

  • The rules say that if you get the same skill from two sources (e.g. two backgrounds), you can just pick a different skill.  So if you take Bounty Hunter as your background and Thug as your scheme, you get Spot, Stealth, Streetwise, Intimidate... and then any two random skills you want?  That seems... unintentional.

  • This is a more general comment, but I'm not crazy about the fact that some skills can only be gained through one or two very specific backgrounds (or the Skill Training feat).  If I want to be a traditional dungeon rogue, who can find traps, I have to be a former thief.

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book  
The Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.

1. Keep your mechanics out of my RP. I might have a theiving skill-set and know some theives, but that doesn't mean I'm a thief per-say, perhaps I'm just lumped into that group. It's a stereotype I say!  ...Sorry got a little off track. Point being that just because that's what they call the mechanics, doesn't mean I need to work my character around that in terms of RP. It just doesn't work that way.
2. I'll agree here, it can get strange but if you're willing to RP it it's fine by me.
3. Up to the player.
4. I'll agree with this one.
5. You have  to be a former Thief... Unless you refluff or choose an option that lets you get that skill set. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Agreed.  You should easily be able to refluff these things into something more appropriate for your character.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Agree, there are lots of character concepts best served by the rogue template rather than the fighter template but which have no relation to being a thief. Spy, detective etc along with a variety of edge concepts that are only sort of thieves but who would be highly offended by being called a thief. Govt assassin, privateer etc. You should be able to build these out of the box mechanically without having to do massive re-fluffing of your history.



  • The above gets silly when you combine it with certain "normal" backgrounds, e.g. Knight+Thief.  You can certainly explain it with some creativity, but it's strange that you have to.



this is a easy one if you play your rogue as a spy type the "normal" background is your cover
I could be wrong, but I expect by the final release of the game, there will likely be more than just two Rogue Schemes to choose from, and thus more likely that you can find one to suit your character...

This is an area I see the class being expanded as more source books coming out as well... 
He who should not speak...
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