8/15/2012 LI: "An Introduction to Team Sealed Strategy"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

It seems like, if you are trying to build a "bad" deck that's not likely to win anyway, you can embrace the badness by building an explosive deck like you described as "bad".  Something along the lines of the Tormented Soul/Dark Favor pairing.  Yes, you lose (or fall behind) if your opponent has removal, but taking a big gamble on maximizing your cheap (and easy) wins seems to be the best way to go if your reliable paths to victory aren't available.


I would hesitate to make a "bad" deck anyway, but capitalizing on an opponent's unluckiness has a surprising tendency to pay off, especially if you can do it consistently.

kind of a lame article, I doubt i'll ever play this and most of his advice was pretty obvious...
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Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
I'm sad to say that Sadin has become a master at producing walls of text that don't really say anything. His advices are so general and chock full of "if"s and "but"s and "however"s that I - as the reader - am left no wiser having read it.

I think his column would be much more interesting if he could come up with some bold statements and actual scenarios (draft picks/sealed builds/gameplay situations) that could cause some controversy and discussion on this forum.

For example, for this "Team Sealed" article he could have provided an actual pool of twelve M13 boosters, and discussed possible decks.

I agree that a lot of the text of this article didn't contribute much for someone familiar with building team sealed decks.  However, I thought the point about diminishing returns to removal was both salient and interesting.  Receiving reduced value from additional removal spells comes up in normal Limited, but never to the point that you'd choose not to run as many Murders as possible.


I also wonder if it could make sense with some pools to try to build two great decks and one horrible one, especially if one player on the team is substantially weaker than the other two (although this is likely to lead to a miserable day for him/her).


For example, for this "Team Sealed" article he could have provided an actual pool of twelve M13 boosters, and discussed possible decks.

I was hoping/expecting to see that, and disappointed not to.  It might have provided a good source of concrete examples for the other points he was trying to make.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...
However, I thought the point about diminishing returns to removal was both salient and interesting.  Receiving reduced value from additional removal spells comes up in normal Limited, but never to the point that you'd choose not to run as many Murders as possible.


I don't think he was saying that you shouldn't run all your removal spells, but that you should consider distributing them between your three decks. This way you will likely maximize the potential of your removal by using it on powerful threats rather than mediocre threats (you can probably deal with that Wind Drake without Murdering it).
For example, for this "Team Sealed" article he could have provided an actual pool of twelve M13 boosters, and discussed possible decks.

I was hoping/expecting to see that, and disappointed not to. 



You were expecting an actual Limited walkthrough? On the flagship's Limited column? When has Steve ever done a Limited walkthrough? Lots of people have asked him to, but I can't recall a single occasion when it's happened.

"Walls of text that don't really say anything" is the truth. The masterpiece was a few weeks back when he sincerely informed us that we were probably best off not playing vanilla 1-drops like Merfolk of the Pearl Trident. Without any self-consciousness or indication that this might be something already obvious. I mean, I play Limited a tiny, tiny fraction of the amount that the target audience here do, and I figured that out years ago.
i don't know, guys; i'm thinking that a lot is obvious to you guys, but as someone still developping my limitted skills, i'm picking up a lot from even the basic basic information he goes over?


For example, for this "Team Sealed" article he could have provided an actual pool of twelve M13 boosters, and discussed possible decks.



That would make for a nice follow up article.  He's already given the introduction, so he can skip straight to the building and say "See here for explanation".



For example, for this "Team Sealed" article he could have provided an actual pool of twelve M13 boosters, and discussed possible decks.



That would make for a nice follow up article.  He's already given the introduction, so he can skip straight to the building and say "See here for explanation".



Agreed. "Here's an example!" would be a great follow-up.

However, I thought the point about diminishing returns to removal was both salient and interesting.  Receiving reduced value from additional removal spells comes up in normal Limited, but never to the point that you'd choose not to run as many Murders as possible.

I don't think he was saying that you shouldn't run all your removal spells, but that you should consider distributing them between your three decks. This way you will likely maximize the potential of your removal by using it on powerful threats rather than mediocre threats (you can probably deal with that Wind Drake without Murdering it).

Sure, I understand that.  I was contrasting how the diminishing returns effect, although relevant in duels as well (for example, Sam Black picked a Crimson Muckwader over a Murder in a draft on his stream yesterday), has extra potential importance when building multiple decks from the same pool.  It's not just a matter of choosing which deck deserves the extra win% (if that were it, you might well want to assemble one nearly unstoppable deck with all the best cards), but instead that beyond a certain point, extra removal just doesn't hold all that much value.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...