Constructive FAQ thread: Playtest Packet 2

This thread is being created with the intent of getting a formal list of odd wording, unclear definitions, potential unintended issues, and other forms of questioning relating to the Playtest Packet 2.  This is -not- a complaint thread or a debate thread; regardless of your views on whether you agree with something, please only make clear questions here.    I'll start off with some that I know are floating in threads.  If I miss yours, it's not intentional -- I'm just going off memory at the time of posting.

I will update this first post as more are added and hopefully having a single, concise thread will allow Mike and Co. to more easily see the biggest questions we have.  Again...please keep complaints and comments to other threads.  Thank you.

1.  Hold Person spell.  The wording of Hold Person seems to indicate that any creature, regardless of Hit Die or Hit Points, can be made immobile for 1 minute (10 rounds) with no save, as the save indicates that only the -paralysis- effect is listed.

2. Healing Word.  There is some confusion among forumgoers as to whether or not the 'Unconcious' state precludes hearing.  As hearing is the basis for more spells than just this one,  a look at the Unconcious state itself is probably more in order.

3. Spells in Armor.  While Wizards are expressly forbidden from casting spells in armor, the Dabbler specialty makes no such mention.  Is it intentional for Dabblers to be able to cast in armor? (Seemingly answered in post-packet followup with Warlock and Sorcerer)

4. Animate Servant.  The description lists this as a ritual, but the prerequisites do not mention the need for a Ritual class feature.  Is this intentional?

5. Thieves Cant.  Would this not be better served as a background?  Also, as it stands 'among thieves' is wonky wording.  If it is -not- to be moved, 'among rogues' would serve better.

6. Fighter Pregen Longbow is missing an attack modifier, and short sword appears to be using incorrect stat (STR instead of DEX for a finesse weapon). (Thank you, Plaguescarred)

7. Fighters and Clerics get class improvements at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels.  Rogues do so at 1st, 2nd, and 5th levels.  Is this intended or a typo? (Thank you, Chakravant)

8. Under skills, it mentions that you can learn a new skill as you raise levels.  However, the mechanic listed only shows adding a +1 to an existing skill.  Is this something that cannot be done until past level 5, or is the wording incomplete?

9. Terminology.  The Elf Pregen's Magic Missile states that it 'autohits', while Hit is defined as requiring an attack roll. 

10. What happens if you attack with a weapon with which you are not proficient?

11. Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10, but does not indicate what should follow '10'.  Minutes?  Rounds?  Hours?

12. Jumping movement:  Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted?

14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage?

15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage?

---UPDATED---
 

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

5.  The Thieves' Cant class feature is mis-named.  Not all Rogues are thieves (it depends on which, if any, backround is being used).  Also, it actually reads "Among thieves . . . "; the wording needs to be general rather than specific.

I also have a related question:  Wouldn't thieves' cant be better served as part of the 'thief' backround (in conjunction with the 'thief signs' trait for instance) rather than as a class feature?

Just a quick note:  I'm not nitpicking, I honestly believe this needs to be clarified.
/\ Art
5.  The Thieves' Cant class feature is mis-named.  Not all Rogues are thieves (it depends on which, if any, backround is being used).  Also, it actually reads "Among thieves . . . "; the wording needs to be general rather than specific.

I also have a related question:  Wouldn't thieves' cant be better served as part of the 'thief' backround (in conjunction with the 'thief signs' trait for instance) rather than as a class feature?

Just a quick note:  I'm not nitpicking, I honestly believe this needs to be clarified.



No, you're right.  This was one I had intended to add, then I had a phone call come in right as I was finishing up and it slipped my mind lol.  Thanks Artifact.


"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

6. The Human Fighter Pregen's Longbow attack is missing a damage modifier. It should be 1d8+4 piercing damage. Also his Shortsword attack is using Strenght instead of Dexterity for unknown reasons and should be +7 1d6+4 piercong damage since its a finesse piercing weapon.

7. The Elf Wizard Pregen's Magic Missile attack incorrectly says it auto-hit. It autodamage but doesn't hit since it doesn't make an attack roll.


EDITED
Fighters and Clerics get class improvements at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels. Rogues do so at 1st, 2nd, and 5th levels. Is this intended or a typo?
Bump for great justice.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

Another bump, and a comment.

It seems that Number 3 has been answered by the Warlock playtest. Cantrips gained from Magic-User seem to be usable in armor since the Warlock doesn't get an exception for casting them in Leather Armor and Magic-User is their suggested Specialty.
What happen if you attack with a weapon with which you aren`t proficient ? (armor describes it, but not weapons)
Very good idea for a thread. I have two questions.

Low light vision (from race) and night vision (from thief scheme) - do they stack? That is, if an elf thief is in a room with total darkness, and "uses" light vision to treat is as shadows, does night vision (after kicking in) reduce shadows to normal light, allowing an elf to see normally, or are they not stackable, and night vision is redundant for low-light races.

Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10... - description cuts off here. 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 rounds?
Very good idea for a thread. I have two questions.

Low light vision (from race) and night vision (from thief scheme) - do they stack? That is, if an elf thief is in a room with total darkness, and "uses" light vision to treat is as shadows, does night vision (after kicking in) reduce shadows to normal light, allowing an elf to see normally, or are they not stackable, and night vision is redundant for low-light races.

Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10... - description cuts off here. 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 rounds?

1) Seems like they stack.  Problems may happen if there's a kobold rogue with light sensitivity. He'll have to wear sunglass at night 

2) I would guess minutes.  But yea... it's missing the durration.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'll contribute to this thread when I'm not at work, and have the playtest packet to look at.

In the meantime, I'll take care of the obligatory hate that goes on in these forae.

YOU ALL EAT PUPPY DOGS AND KICK BABIES!

NU UH, YOU'RE A CAT-LOVING COMMUNIST!

FOR THE MOTHERLAND AND THE FELINE OVERLORDS! YOU DRINK DOG DROOL!

AT LEAST I CAN HAVE PEOPLE OVER MY HOUSE WITHOUT THEM DYING FROM ALLERGIES AND HOUSECAT ATTACKS!

etc.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.
Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.


This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.


This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.



Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.
13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted? 
14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage? (I vote no)
15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage? (I vote yes)


Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.


This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.



Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.


This is an interesting idea, but I am not sure there is enough granularity in move rates (multiples of 5) to make this work.

Front post has been updated with all questions.  Looking good, keep 'em coming.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted? 
14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage? (I vote no)
15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage? (I vote yes)

14.  It seems so.  ALL damage is halfed.

15. Nothing about any combat manuver say's to add your strength, so i don't think it would.

Also, glacing blow will almost never trigger.  If a fighter rolls a 10+, he's going to hit.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.


This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.



Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.



While I agree that Strength could be more useful, I do not like the flavour of a Dwarf in heavy armor leaping around like a frog...

I don't think he was implying through jumping, just through having increased strength.

And it's not so much 'leaping around like a frog' as it is 'hopping 'round like a rabbit'.
Can a player take the Feats from Specialties in a different order if they meet the prerequisite?

Can a Fighter take the Combat Maneuvers from Fighting Styles in a different order if they meet the prerequisite?

Can a caster Dismiss the effect of an ongoing spell (i.e. Grease)? Does it require the caster to use an action?

If a Fighter or Rogue takes a Specialty that grants a Cantrip or Orison which grants a magical attack, what is the base Magical Attack bonus before adding the Wisdom or Intelligence modifier?
Basic Kobolds seem to be using the wrong stat (strength instead of Dex) for their melee attack.

Does the mob ability (can't remember the name, grants +1 to hit) stack with itself from other creatures. 

In the DM guidelines section it still says that an easy constitution check is in order to stop spell disruption (though it does not give us clear rules as to what type of damage, taken when, disrupts what). In the player packet, the section on disruption no longer includes rules for disruption as a result of damage taken. That needs to be cleaned up. And, personally, I hope that cleaning it up means adding it back in. The check made as a result of damage taken was one of my favorite things from the last playtest. I was really upset to see it gone from the current disruption section. 

The Warlock Lesser Invocation Fabrication Weave has no duration method given

It says ''The object lasts for 10''    10 seconds,  10 rounds, minutes, days, weeks, years, decade, century, millenium ?
Do you add your ability modifier to Spell's damage rolls or only to attack roll ?

Magical Attack (Class PDF pg. 10) was changed to only mention it apply to attack rolls, but the text on damage roll (How To Play pg. 12)  still says you add the ability modifier you used to make the attack to the damage roll of spells.


Quick note on Thieves Cant. IRL, it was called that (or just Cant for short) even though it was hardly just thieves that used it. It developed out of angloromani as an obfuscating pidgin, used to communicate without any upstanding sorts knowing what you were on about.

The text shouldn't specify "amongst theives", and the theif scheme shouldn't be the only way to get it, though. It would make sense to put it in the thief background, since thief rogues would still automatically get it, but so would anyone else who took the theif theme, but honestly, thieves, thugs, con men, black market dealers, gypsies and even regular folk who live in urban slums and interact with those sorts could reasonably know it, so it really should be more broadly available.

I'd almost be tempted to make it a skill.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
The War Cleric and Draconic Heritage Sorcerer gain proficiencies with martial weapons. Does that include Finesse weapons and Heavy Weapons? The suggested equipment for the Draconic Heritage Sorcerer includes a Greatsword, but doesn't specify that it gets that proficiency. 
Finesse and Heavy Weapons are different Weapon Categories than Martial Weapon, and thus doesn't include one another. (Its a error in the Dragon Sorcerer suggested equipment or weapon proficiency entry)
Finesse and Heavy Weapons are different Weapon Categories than Martial Weapon, and thus doesn't include one another. (Its a error in the Dragon Sorcerer suggested equipment or weapon proficiency entry)



Is that official? Could I get a link?
Thats how its written in the Melee Weapon Categories (Equipement PDF pg. 3)


Melee Weapon Categories: Each melee weapon falls into one of the following categories, which are broad groups that share certain key traits. Your class determines what weapons you can use.


 
Right, but the question becomes should the weapon proficiencies for War Domain and Draconic Heritage include Heavy and Finesse, or should the suggested equipment be changed to longsword? I understand why many would think that it should be the latter, but right now it opens it up to interpretation.

With the requirement to cast a spell of having a free hand, a shield proficiency becomes somewhat less desirable for the Draconic Heritage Sorcerer.
If the Dragon Sorcerer gains all Armor and Weapons Proficiency, Weapon Attack modifier of +3, i think it will play in the Fighter's court too much IMO.
If the Dragon Sorcerer gains all Armor and Weapons Proficiency, Weapon Attack modifier of +3, i think it will play in the Fighter's court too much IMO.



Possibly. That is why they should remove shield proficiency. Give them Heavy Weapons, no shields, it fixes the problem of the free hand for casting as well.
the halfling rogue pregen is missing night-vision as well as the free thief background it would get from its scheme.
This was mentioned elsewhere, but I'm going to say it here: the Warlock has only 2 1st-level spells available, and at 3rd level, it should know 3 1st-level spells. This badly needs fixing.
Also, it looks like they made a mistake: there's no Bard. Obviously there's supposed to be a Bard, because Bards are awesome... 
In beastiary the Goblins have a Melee Attack - Shortbow. I'm guessing it is supposed to be Ranged.
Ant Farm
In the How To Play document under "Damage Rolls," the text seems to indicate that the same ability modifier used to make the attack is added to the damage roll for both weapons and spells.  Please clarify, as this would mean Ray of Frost deals 1d6 + 3 + Int modifier for a wizard, Radiant Lance deals 1d8 + 4 + Wis modifier for a cleric, etc.
Regrading #5. We had a discussion regarding Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs. This was my ruling.

They serve two different purposes.

Thieves' Cant is a 'language'. It allows you the ability to use a secret language that thieves use to talk about crimes while in busy areas.

Thief Signs is an ability that allows you to read markings (notches on walls, graffiti, flags, etc..) that thieves use to display information about fences, informations and general whereabouts of the criminal underground.

Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.
Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.

As written in the playtest, all Rogues are indeed criminals.

Consider:  Two Rogue Schemes are presented (thief and thug).  Rogue Scheme is a class feature, so you must pick one or the other (or else forego a class feature).  Both schemes are criminal in nature.  

It's very likely there will be additional schemes available in the finalized game, with little or no implications of a criminal nature.

For right now though, the class is more Thief (specific) than Rogue (general).  Might as well reclaim that name from 2nd Edition ;).  That's what they were called back then.  Thieves were a sub-class of Rogues in fact, Bards being the other.

Anyway, another issue that I believe could use some clarification.
/\ Art
Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.

As written in the playtest, all Rogues are indeed criminals.

Consider:  Two Rogue Schemes are presented (thief and thug).  Rogue Scheme is a class feature, so you must pick one or the other (or else forego a class feature).  Both schemes are criminal in nature.  

It's very likely there will be additional schemes available in the finalized game, with little or no implications of a criminal nature.

For right now though, the class is more Thief (specific) than Rogue (general).  Might as well reclaim that name from 2nd Edition ;).  That's what they were called back then.  Thieves were a sub-class of Rogues in fact, Bards being the other.

Anyway, another issue that I believe could use some clarification.

No, a thug by definition is not always criminal. Gang related usage of the word thug points to criminal activity ... but a thug is can be just a person who beats people up on the street.
--
(Dictionary.com)

thug    noun

1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

ruf·fi·an   noun
1. a tough, lawless person; roughneck; bully.
--
"Rogues rely on skill, stealth, and their opponents’ vulnerabilities to get the upper hand. Rogues bring versatility and resourcefulness to an adventuring party, having the knack for finding solutions to just  about any problem they face.", page 7 of the Classes PDF


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