Fighters not proficient with finesse weapons?

The human fighter attacks with the shortsword as though it's not a finesse weapon. Is this a typo, or is it intentional now that fighters no longer gain this ability?

I know it says "slashing" on the sheet, which is wrong, but this happens a few times across the board.

Actually, tbh, I don't think finesse weapons should get dex bonuses to damage. Part of the trade-off was supposed to be that they don't rely on strength, but their damage output is lower. If dex can substitute for strength completely in this way, then strength has no more use. In fact I'd say that finesse weapons should have no damage bonuses - and I'm not just saying that because I'm dreading the sight of all the katana wielding rogues with no strength and maxed out dex pwning everybody...okay I confess, that's exactly why I'm saying that! :P
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
Finesse weapons can use Str or Dex, per the wielder's choice.

Also, Dex adding damage can be explained by imagining several quick slashes/stabs per "attack" as opposed to one mighty blow. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/7.jpg)

Finesse weapons can use Str or Dex, per the wielder's choice.



Yes, but why would you use the inferior one, as this fighter has chosen to?

Also, Dex adding damage can be explained by imagining several quick slashes/stabs per "attack" as opposed to one mighty blow. 



Oh I know how it can be explained, but my point is, it puts finesse weapons on a par with strength weapons, and I think they shouldn't be. I preferred it when they still used strength damage, because that way, finesse characters had to sacrifice something. Here, they don't. They are just as effective in combat as the strong characters.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
i would rather weapons be balanced to be honest.

i hate the idea of "well, you picked your class for flavor, so you shouldn't be as powerful as that guy over there"
Leaving aside the question of whether or not finesse weapons should be on par with strength weapons, I'm pretty sure the pre-gen Fighter not using Dex for his short sword is an error, as Fighters get proficiency with all weapons, and I haven't seen any rules text stating that only certain classes can use Dex on finesse weapons.
Ah, the archer pregen. Yeah, that's a typo. WotC is infamous for making the worst, most error laden pregen characters of all time.

I remember a 3.5 RPG Day game where the cleric had a wisdom of 12... lol 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/7.jpg)

Ah, the archer pregen. Yeah, that's a typo. WotC is infamous for making the worst, most error laden pregen characters of all time.

I remember a 3.5 RPG Day game where the cleric had a wisdom of 12... lol 



lol, maybe that was just the bad cleric out of the chapel.
Ah, the archer pregen. Yeah, that's a typo. WotC is infamous for making the worst, most error laden pregen characters of all time.

I remember a 3.5 RPG Day game where the cleric had a wisdom of 12... lol 



Obviously a throwback to AD&D1st (or OD&D).  Once upon a time a primary stat of 12 was about average. 


Carl
i hate the idea of "well, you picked your class for flavor, so you shouldn't be as powerful as that guy over there"



So do I. That's why I hate the idea that people who go the finesse route are inherently better than those who go the strength route.

Because finesse characters can use strength as a dump stat (why not? They don't need it anymore!) giving them another high ability score to make use of. Strength characters, however, have to decide which is worth more: strength or dex.

Dex is already the most useful ability, in that it affects your defence and ranged attacks, as well as skills like stealth. What does strength affect, other than non-finesse melee attacks (of which we'll see far fewer of now that the highly popular katana has joined the dex club) and carrying capacity?

I'd rather strength is used for all melee attack damage rolls.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
Finesse weapons don't do as much damage.  That's not an insignificant thing.

It's probably not enough to balance them, but it's not nothing.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It is not the only typo on the pre-gen Fighter, he also misses the dex bonus to damage for the longbow. 




Oh I know how it can be explained, but my point is, it puts finesse weapons on a par with strength weapons, and I think they shouldn't be. I preferred it when they still used strength damage, because that way, finesse characters had to sacrifice something. Here, they don't. They are just as effective in combat as the strong characters.



They have to sacrifice something. The martial weapons do more damage than the finesse weapons.  The highest damaging one handed finesse weapon does 1d6, while the highest damaging one handed martial weapon does 1d8. For two-handed weapons it is 1d8 vs 1d10.

So a fighter dumping Str and pumping Dex does somewhat lower damage.
There is also currently no finesse weapon for the fighter that really benefits from racial weapon training. No 1d8 rapier for the Elf Fighter! No 1d8 handaxe for the Dwarf!
So if your race would normally benefit from that, it is already 1d6 vs 1d10.

For the rogues of course it makes no difference, since they are not proficient with martial weaponry anyway. For them finesse weapons are as awesome as it gets. Non-halfling rogues will probably like the katana as a stabbing device.
The cleric is not even proficient with any finesse weapon. 
And the wizard is proficient with a dagger and can stab people to death with that. Or just cast magic missile.

Because finesse characters can use strength as a dump stat (why not? They don't need it anymore!) giving them another high ability score to make use of. Strength characters, however, have to decide which is worth more: strength or dex.

Or they just use heavy armor and dump dex.

Dex is already the most useful ability, in that it affects your defence and ranged attacks, as well as skills like stealth. What does strength affect, other than non-finesse melee attacks (of which we'll see far fewer of now that the highly popular katana has joined the dex club) and carrying capacity?

Well, first off, the highest damage die you can get out of a finesse weapon is a d8, while you can get up to 1d12 with strength weaponry (2d6 if you're a dwarf). Secondly, while dex affects Open Locks, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, strength affects climb, jump, swim, lift, push, and smash, and those strength applications are arguably more significant, since you can't shore them up by getting the right skills.

in the context of of other editions, Dex is stronger, but you have to remember that DW no longer adds potential for twice as much damage.

i'd rather strentgh.

if i'm an upfront fighter, i would rather plate to protect myself and not worry about my dex mod.

look at it this way, it takes a dex ability score of 20 to make the dex fighter = the str fighter in defences. the highest ability score givin to you in the character creation guidlines ability score array is 15. thats +3 AC for the str fighter.

and there are bonuses to being strong as well, for one, you can smash things, pull things, pushing things, grab things, wrestle things, strength things.

like other people have stated, strength weapons are better on the damage die, which means now my strength fighter has better defences AND offences at the cost of the bonuses of dex like sneak and things, i would say thats pretty balanced.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />They have to sacrifice something. The martial weapons do more damage than the finesse weapons.  The highest damaging one handed finesse weapon does 1d6, while the highest damaging one handed martial weapon does 1d8. For two-handed weapons it is 1d8 vs 1d10.



So the big trade off is that they have the potential to do 2 more points of damage. It's hardly a major trade-off to not needing strength.

And yes, strength fighters can put on heavier armour (which costs a lot more too), but then they still have a rubbish ranged attack.

I think my real issue is that someone could have a strength of 3 and still use the katana with devastating effect! To me, that totally defies logic.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />They have to sacrifice something. The martial weapons do more damage than the finesse weapons.  The highest damaging one handed finesse weapon does 1d6, while the highest damaging one handed martial weapon does 1d8. For two-handed weapons it is 1d8 vs 1d10.



So the big trade off is that they have the potential to do 2 more points of damage. It's hardly a major trade-off to not needing strength.

And yes, strength fighters can put on heavier armour (which costs a lot more too), but then they still have a rubbish ranged attack.

I think my real issue is that someone could have a strength of 3 and still use the katana with devastating effect! To me, that totally defies logic.



if soembody had a strength of 3 they wouldn't be able to lift the weight of their own body (if convential wizards ability score rules apply here).

and heavy plate costs the same (5k GP) as Mithril, and the only way the dex fighter is going to even TOUCH the strength fighters AC is with mithril and a 20 in their dex.
And yes, strength fighters can put on heavier armour (which costs a lot more too)


No it doesn't, except for the lowest-grade stuff which you get for free due to your class (protector fighters get chainmail, as an example).

And unless they've got a 20 dex, heavy armor wins on AC.  Medium is always 1 behind, even with a +2 dex mod.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition


So the big trade off is that they have the potential to do 2 more points of damage. It's hardly a major trade-off to not needing strength.




Remember, damage is not going to be that high overall. A badass Elf Fighter with +5 Dex modifier using a short sword and putting his Combat Superiority into damage deals 1d6 + 5 + 1d6 = 12 average damage.

Now a badass Dwarf Fighter with a Waraxe with a +5 Str modifier using a Waraxe and putting his Combat Superiority into damage deals 1d10 + 5 + 1d6 = 14 average damage. 

The Dwarf deals about 17% more damage!

Also the one-handed ranged option of the Dwarf is actually better, since he as access to a 1d8 throwing axe. The elf can only use the 1d6 javelin. When not using a shield, the Elf can use the 1d10 longbow. But then the two-handed melee damage of the Dwarfs Greataxe is a whopping 2d6 vs. the pitiful 1d8 of the Elfs Katana.


i hate the idea of "well, you picked your class for flavor, so you shouldn't be as powerful as that guy over there"



So do I. That's why I hate the idea that people who go the finesse route are inherently better than those who go the strength route.

Because finesse characters can use strength as a dump stat (why not? They don't need it anymore!) giving them another high ability score to make use of. Strength characters, however, have to decide which is worth more: strength or dex.

Dex is already the most useful ability, in that it affects your defence and ranged attacks, as well as skills like stealth. What does strength affect, other than non-finesse melee attacks (of which we'll see far fewer of now that the highly popular katana has joined the dex club) and carrying capacity?

I'd rather strength is used for all melee attack damage rolls.

totally agreed. strength for melee weapon damage.

if i were to run a 5e campaign right now, anyone found using a katana would find themselves subject to an inordinate amount of monster aggression...