Lecture Tokens - BW

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Basically I spent my uni lectures today brainstorming and doing math for this. Hence Lecture Tokens.

Before you read on:
Reasons for some card choices:
Caves of Koilos - Yes, Isolated Chapel has been printed, however its not an untapped Black source on turn 1. The 1 damage is worth it to distrupt anyone's hand in this format.
Doomed Traveler - Guy seems like a house. Boardwipe occurs, get a token, and flashback a Lingering Souls and suddenly your board presence is back.
Hero of Bladehold - This card is bonkers. With Honor/Virtue out it makes a huge impact on the board and is always a live topdeck.
Tidehollow Sculler - Distruption is more important then board presence in the current format. Sculler takes prescedence over Raise the Alarm.
Vault of the Archangel - Doesn't tap for white they say. Gives you strongest turn 5 attack phase in the format.

Without further delay:

4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
3 Vault of the Archangel
1 Isolated Chapel

4 Doomed Traveler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Hero of Bladehold

4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

Sideboard:
4 Duress
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Divine Offering
3 Dismember
2 Torpor Orb

Thoughts?
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4 Godless Shrines seems a bit much.  I don't think you want to take that much damage from your lands.  I would cut that down to 2 and add in some more basics.

I know you like the Caves, but I think you've got too many.  I would go down to 2 or 3, replacing them with Isolated Chapels or basics.

3 Vaults is probably too many.  You have a lot of colored costs, so the colorless mana hurts.  Replace one with and Isolated Chapel.

I'm not sure you need 10 hand disruption spells.  That seems like overkill to me.  I'd probably cut the Inquisitions and turn them into Go for the Throats.  That'd leave with a 8/6 discard/removal split, which is likely to get you further than 10/4.  Of course, that depends on the metagame.


4 Godless Shrines seems a bit much.  I don't think you want to take that much damage from your lands.  I would cut that down to 2 and add in some more basics.

I know you like the Caves, but I think you've got too many.  I would go down to 2 or 3, replacing them with Isolated Chapels or basics.

3 Vaults is probably too many.  You have a lot of colored costs, so the colorless mana hurts.  Replace one with and Isolated Chapel.

I'm not sure you need 10 hand disruption spells.  That seems like overkill to me.  I'd probably cut the Inquisitions and turn them into Go for the Throats.  That'd leave with a 8/6 discard/removal split, which is likely to get you further than 10/4.  Of course, that depends on the metagame.




Re: the Lands.
I think its fine to take a bit of damage from my lands at this point. Vault helps you get it back and you can end the game quickly if you stick any anthem + Lingering Souls/Spectral Procession. Turn 1 distruption seems highly important to compete in this metagame, so I think it'll have to stay that way. 3 Vault does give me a chance to draw it when I need to, but not when it will kill me. Vault is pretty important enough to warrant the third copy.

Re: Distruption
I find 10 is the magic number preboard if you want to constantly distrupt their hand while applying pressure. Gofer is an ok replacement but I do think Smother is better in the format if I were to replace it. 
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I really, really think your'e making a mistake in having so many non-basics.  You will get absolutely wrecked by a Blood Moon.  If I saw nothing but non-basics from you, I'd bring it in even if it's not traditionally good against the deck.  At bare minimum, you need one basic Swamp so you don't ever get locked out of black.

I agree that Vault can be important, but you don't want more than one and you don't want it early.  To me, that really means you want it only as a 2-of.

I think with 10 discard spells, you have too many hands where you're not doing anything except forcing them to discard.  Not to mention that discard gets worse in multiples or that they're pretty much horrible top decks.  At the very least, take out the 4x Duress from the sideboard.  If 10 discard spells aren't going to get the job done, four more aren't going to get it done either.

Also, given that the "best" deck in the format (or at least it seems that way) is the 4-color Pod deck, you want to have enough removal to deal with that deck. Discard doesn't hurt Pod nearly enough, since all they have to do is stick a Pod and it's basically game over. 

Pod is also the reason why I wouldn't play Smother.  Pod (and other decks) love Restoration Angel.  Too many of the current decks play the Angel to make Smother any good.

Just noticed that you didn't have any Ethersworn Cannonists in the list.  That seems to be a good way to just get wrecked by Storm decks.
I really, really think your'e making a mistake in having so many non-basics.  You will get absolutely wrecked by a Blood Moon.  If I saw nothing but non-basics from you, I'd bring it in even if it's not traditionally good against the deck.  At bare minimum, you need one basic Swamp so you don't ever get locked out of black.

I agree that Vault can be important, but you don't want more than one and you don't want it early.  To me, that really means you want it only as a 2-of.

I think with 10 discard spells, you have too many hands where you're not doing anything except forcing them to discard.  Not to mention that discard gets worse in multiples or that they're pretty much horrible top decks.  At the very least, take out the 4x Duress from the sideboard.  If 10 discard spells aren't going to get the job done, four more aren't going to get it done either.

Also, given that the "best" deck in the format (or at least it seems that way) is the 4-color Pod deck, you want to have enough removal to deal with that deck. Discard doesn't hurt Pod nearly enough, since all they have to do is stick a Pod and it's basically game over. 

Pod is also the reason why I wouldn't play Smother.  Pod (and other decks) love Restoration Angel.  Too many of the current decks play the Angel to make Smother any good.

Just noticed that you didn't have any Ethersworn Cannonists in the list.  That seems to be a good way to just get wrecked by Storm decks.


Re: Blood Moon
No one is playing it at the present moment. Affinity Red is probably the only deck runs it on a regular basis. I do agree its a problem. 

Re: Duress
The 4 Duress is the Storm plan. It seems good enough to me, thats how I usually distrupted Storm. They can simply remove the Ethersworn Canonist, they can't really rebuild their hands, especially with the lower quality cantrips. As for them being poor topdecks, its true, but thats why Tidehollow is really good.

Re: Pod and the solutions
4-colour pod is a good deck, but not necessarily the best one.
Smother hit most of the relevant creatures in the format, as opposed to Go for/Doom Blade. Not hitting Resto Angel is ok, and you can still hit it with Path anyway.
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I'm in the beginning stages of putting together, my first modern and similar to zpikduM, W/B Token deck.

Like you, OP, I intend to use Tidehollow Sculler and Hero of Bladehold, alongside the INN Block Token generators and anthems. I was thinking though of a 4 card Planeswalker suite, 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, 1 Ajani Goldmane and 1 Elspeth Tirel. I would love some feedback on my decisions here.

Also, seen as the manabase has been discussed at length I would like mine critiquing also, so here it is:

4x Marsh Flats
3x Arid Mesa
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Godless Shrine
3x Vault of the Archangel
2x Windbrisk Heights
3x Plains
2x Swamp

I'm still pretty early stages right now, I only really have the Manabase in actual cards but I'll be proxying up the deck to start testing it out. 

I've been running Teysa in BW tokens to great success. Not the janky painter's servant combo with it, but just having extra free removal, she's a 3/4 for three mana with honor out, and she combo's well with blood artist.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/

I've been running Teysa in BW tokens to great success. Not the janky painter's servant combo with it, but just having extra free removal, she's a 3/4 for three mana with honor out, and she combo's well with blood artist.



The question is if Teysa is worth the 3slot drops over Spectral Procession and Lingering Souls.
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I've been running Teysa in BW tokens to great success. Not the janky painter's servant combo with it, but just having extra free removal, she's a 3/4 for three mana with honor out, and she combo's well with blood artist.



The question is if Teysa is worth the 3slot drops over Spectral Procession and Lingering Souls.




This was roughly where we got to:

3 Blood Artist
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Teysa
(10)
4 Lingering Souls
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Spectral Procession
(12)
4 Path
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
(10)
3 Honor of the Pure
1 Intangible Virtue
(4)

2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windbrisk Heights
1 Swamp
6 Plains
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
(24)

Some numbers could be tweaked, an additional vault would be good for example.

We found having lots of anthems actually makes the deck worse since you get more dead draws, 4 anthems and the Persecutions to act as removal and an anthem seem be better. THe list was modified from the GP list. Hero could be a good addition in terms of an anthem effects, perhaps -1 teysa, +1 hero.

Blood artist is a pseudo anthem, since he provides extra damage much like an anthem but gives you value out of wraths on the other side of the board.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/

I've been running Teysa in BW tokens to great success. Not the janky painter's servant combo with it, but just having extra free removal, she's a 3/4 for three mana with honor out, and she combo's well with blood artist.



The question is if Teysa is worth the 3slot drops over Spectral Procession and Lingering Souls.




This was roughly where we got to:

3 Blood Artist
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Teysa
(10)
4 Lingering Souls
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Spectral Procession
(12)
4 Path
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
(10)
3 Honor of the Pure
1 Intangible Virtue
(4)

2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windbrisk Heights
1 Swamp
6 Plains
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
(24)

Some numbers could be tweaked, an additional vault would be good for example.

We found having lots of anthems actually makes the deck worse since you get more dead draws, 4 anthems and the Persecutions to act as removal and an anthem seem be better. THe list was modified from the GP list. Hero could be a good addition in terms of an anthem effects, perhaps -1 teysa, +1 hero.

Blood artist is a pseudo anthem, since he provides extra damage much like an anthem but gives you value out of wraths on the other side of the board.



You see right about having too many anthems. In addition, Zealous Persecution seems strong as it also acts as pseudo hate against Twin.
New list:

5 Plains
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Vault of the Archangel
1 Swamp

4 Doomed Traveler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Hero of Bladehold

4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Intangible Virtue

Sideboard:
4 Duress
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Divine Offering
3 Dismember
2 Torpor Orb

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I just had a thought. What about Odric for this deck as a 1 of [over a Hero]. It lets you control combat efficiently and you always have 3 dudes on board anyway.
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But hero kills them instantly, not just mess up combat
I just had a thought. What about Odric for this deck as a 1 of [over a Hero]. It lets you control combat efficiently and you always have 3 dudes on board anyway.



Bad idea, maybe you should stop having these thoughts?
I just had a thought. What about Odric for this deck as a 1 of [over a Hero]. It lets you control combat efficiently and you always have 3 dudes on board anyway.



Bad idea, maybe you should stop having these thoughts?


You breathe, maybe you should stop that.
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I just had a thought. What about Odric for this deck as a 1 of [over a Hero]. It lets you control combat efficiently and you always have 3 dudes on board anyway.


Do you ever play against decks with enough blockers that it matters?  Hero making more attackers and buffing your already-evasive spirits is probably a bigger benefit to you.  Say you have Hero/Odric and 2 tokens; Hero makes it 5 attackers at 2 or more power, while Odric makes it 3 small but essentially unblockable attackers.  It depends on the opponent's board, but I think in most scenarios the Hero is going to get more damage through.  Odric's only advantage I think would be in dealing with non-combat utility creatures like Bob or Lavamancer that you want to force into blocking.  You're an aggro deck, so I think you want Hero more than you want Odric tricks. 
Plus, Odric is a terrible topdeck after a boardwipe where Hero puts you right back in the game.
I just had a thought. What about Odric for this deck as a 1 of [over a Hero]. It lets you control combat efficiently and you always have 3 dudes on board anyway.


Do you ever play against decks with enough blockers that it matters?  Hero making more attackers and buffing your already-evasive spirits is probably a bigger benefit to you.  Say you have Hero/Odric and 2 tokens; Hero makes it 5 attackers at 2 or more power, while Odric makes it 3 small but essentially unblockable attackers.  It depends on the opponent's board, but I think in most scenarios the Hero is going to get more damage through.  Odric's only advantage I think would be in dealing with non-combat utility creatures like Bob or Lavamancer that you want to force into blocking.  You're an aggro deck, so I think you want Hero more than you want Odric tricks. 
Plus, Odric is a terrible topdeck after a boardwipe where Hero puts you right back in the game.


You're right. If they have blockers I usually fly over. Hero definately warrants the last slot, as opposed to Odric.
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Is Blood Artist + Spectral > Bob + Another Token Creator?

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