Via D&D 4e to D&D 5e what is and what isn't?

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First off I dont know if anyone else has come to feel this way, but it's annoying that they specifically are avoiding the word edition. They keep using the word iteration and others, it just feels like they KNOW they are releasing this way to fast and it's PR talk....

ANYWAY, onto the topic. Has anyone heard if they are still trying to allow 4th edition to be compatible? In an interview they were talking about having a conversion guide available for 4th edition characters.  I can only assume there has been silence since then about this and therefore basically getting shafted again as a loyal customer ? I hope I don't need to show proof of silence being a bad thing with wizards.

Also how about 4th edition tools? Has there been ANY mention of them and where they are going? Are we just going to get the plug pulled with the character creator as well? Another thing is that I'm assuming that the last 4th edition product was the Dungeon Explorer's Handbook? I heard the Menzo book is now editionless, so whatever books come out from here on out will be "editionless" of course until 5th edition comes out, just like our eberron adventures guide was right at the end of 3rd edition. It's ashame they never stick to this editionless line of books...

Last question, is there going to be any sort of ogl remake/offshoot of 4th edition? Like OSRIC, being that it wasn't under the OGL but it was worked around. I'd be all for that. Thanks for your time. Long live the fans of D&D that support all editions of D&D equally without malice.
1. The word edition irks new players, especially when you have to sustain your company's profits on the "old edition" while playtesting and creating the "new edition." A lot of people would up and not play D&D 4E if they knew a new edition was on its way (even if the release date is years from now). That is inherently bad for business. This is why they are specifically avoiding mention of the word Edition.

2. 4E will not be compatible with the basic DDN game out of the box. There is talk of a conversion guide but those never really work out, especially when you are changing the system as radically as WotC is doing.

3. No word on the 4E tools. WotC would be foolish to eliminate the tools in the long run since there will always be a large cross section that do not move to the new edition. It would cost WotC very little to keep the current tools on the site and allow people to use them. In fact, it is a good idea to do so because WotC can then force non-adopters to fund content for the new edition (i.e. by forcing them pay for access to everything in the DDI, not just the 4E tools).

4. There will be an OGL remake of 4E, eventually. I'm sure there's one out there right now. The problem is that the system is still being supported, so there is little impetus to create a copy-cat right now.
I'm not sure that there will be an OGL "clone" of 4E, actually. If I understand the legal aspects correctly, 4E didn't have any OGL availalble. The 3.x "iteration" had the OGL, and that's basically how Pathfinder took off. WotC held on much more tightly to D&D with 4E and I'm not sure they'll let go because if they do, then some company can come along and keep supporting 4E to keep the existing 4E players happy (like me) and those players won't have as much (if any) incentive to migrate to the "next iteration".

I have a feeling that it will be the same for the existing 4E character builder and other 4E-specific online tools. If they keep supporting those, it will enable many existing players to choose to remain in an "obsolete" product. Yes, there will be subscriptions fees, but with no new books, tiles, map packs, or other such product to keep advancing 4E, dividends from any DDI subscription for the 4E tools will be negligible. Dropping the 4E tools just gives some more incentive for players to move on to DND Next.

Personally, I'm disappointed that 4E only got the short time that it did. It has been my favourite system so far (and I've played them all). And right now, I have no intention of migrating when 4E is finally "ended" by WotC.
Dropping the 4E tools just gives some more incentive for players to move on to DND Next.


On the contrary, it gives us an incentive to say "Hey, screw you, WotC! I'll take my money elsewhere."

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

I'm not sure that there will be an OGL "clone" of 4E, actually. If I understand the legal aspects correctly, 4E didn't have any OGL availalble. The 3.x "iteration" had the OGL, and that's basically how Pathfinder took off. WotC held on much more tightly to D&D with 4E and I'm not sure they'll let go because if they do, then some company can come along and keep supporting 4E to keep the existing 4E players happy (like me) and those players won't have as much (if any) incentive to migrate to the "next iteration".



People have made clones of 1E and 2E AD&D books. 4E isn't that hard to copy.The basic combat system is essentially the same as 3.x. The biggest difference are monster stat blocks (easy enough to make something similar) and the way players view their powers. Just change the look and a few words around and wrap it in a new shell.

I have a feeling that it will be the same for the existing 4E character builder and other 4E-specific online tools. If they keep supporting those, it will enable many existing players to choose to remain in an "obsolete" product. Yes, there will be subscriptions fees, but with no new books, tiles, map packs, or other such product to keep advancing 4E, dividends from any DDI subscription for the 4E tools will be negligible. Dropping the 4E tools just gives some more incentive for players to move on to DND Next.



The difference is that those players are paying WotC to stay obsolete, where as Pathfinder was supporting a whole different company. Making people pay for something that costs you very little to upkeep is always, always a good idea. It's pure profit. 

Personally, I'm disappointed that 4E only got the short time that it did. It has been my favourite system so far (and I've played them all). And right now, I have no intention of migrating when 4E is finally "ended" by WotC.



DDN is 2 years away from releasing. That means it will have lasted 5.5 to 6 years. That's longer than 3.5 was around. The big difference is that WotC is telling us there's a new edition coming in early development instead of holding that announcement for late in development (like they did with 4E).
I'm not sure that there will be an OGL "clone" of 4E, actually. If I understand the legal aspects correctly, 4E didn't have any OGL availalble. The 3.x "iteration" had the OGL, and that's basically how Pathfinder took off. WotC held on much more tightly to D&D with 4E and I'm not sure they'll let go because if they do, then some company can come along and keep supporting 4E to keep the existing 4E players happy (like me) and those players won't have as much (if any) incentive to migrate to the "next iteration".



People have made clones of 1E and 2E AD&D books. 4E isn't that hard to copy.The basic combat system is essentially the same as 3.x. The biggest difference are monster stat blocks (easy enough to make something similar) and the way players view their powers. Just change the look and a few words around and wrap it in a new shell.

I have a feeling that it will be the same for the existing 4E character builder and other 4E-specific online tools. If they keep supporting those, it will enable many existing players to choose to remain in an "obsolete" product. Yes, there will be subscriptions fees, but with no new books, tiles, map packs, or other such product to keep advancing 4E, dividends from any DDI subscription for the 4E tools will be negligible. Dropping the 4E tools just gives some more incentive for players to move on to DND Next.



The difference is that those players are paying WotC to stay obsolete, where as Pathfinder was supporting a whole different company. Making people pay for something that costs you very little to upkeep is always, always a good idea. It's pure profit. 

Personally, I'm disappointed that 4E only got the short time that it did. It has been my favourite system so far (and I've played them all). And right now, I have no intention of migrating when 4E is finally "ended" by WotC.



DDN is 2 years away from releasing. That means it will have lasted 5.5 to 6 years. That's longer than 3.5 was around. The big difference is that WotC is telling us there's a new edition coming in early development instead of holding that announcement for late in development (like they did with 4E).



Yeah I just wished they gather up a team to put out some of the 4E-ist books that could possibly publish in the mean time, DnDN can now have the task of bringing in the anti-4 crowd, but alas pipe dream
2 years? I was expecting only one year. I guess they'll just be making more "Dungeon Command" stuff in the meantime.
2 years? I was expecting only one year. I guess they'll just be making more "Dungeon Command" stuff in the meantime.


There is some debate about whether the "two year process" Mearls (IIRC?) spoke about included time already spent.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

2 years? I was expecting only one year. I guess they'll just be making more "Dungeon Command" stuff in the meantime.


There is some debate about whether the "two year process" Mearls (IIRC?) spoke about included time already spent.



My bet is we probably have 1.5 years.
1.5 would put us at Nov/Dec 2013. I was expecting summer 2013 (since the past few editions launched in summer). Winter 2013 would allow more time for playtesting and polish.


Any real evidence that something other than Forgotten Realms books and Dungeon Command sets will be made in the interim?  
Its 1.5. WoTC Trevor confirmed it on D&D Next General
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