No premade adventure?

Was there no new premade adventure included in the 2nd playtest packet? Should we be using the original premade again? (*yawn*)

Or should we be making our own up? 
You are free to make one up. Indeed, what better way to playtest the DM side of things?
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Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly an adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author's opinon an absurd effort at best considering the topic!). It does little to attempt to simulate anything either. (AD&D) is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek the use of imagination and creativity.... In all cases, however, the reader should understand that AD&D is designed to be an amusing and diverting pastime, something which an fill a few hours or consume endless days, as the participants desire, but in no case something to be taken too seriously. For fun, excitement and captivating fantasy, AD&D is unsurpassed.As a realistic simulation of things from the realm of make-believe or even as a reflection of midieval or ancient warfare or culture or society, it can be deemed only a dismal failure. Readers who seek the later must search elsewhere. - Gary Gygax. 1e DMG.
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According to one of the most recent tweets: "There is no adventure with the new #dndnext packet, but we will have an adventure next week".
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Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
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Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
My guess is that they will release whatever adventure they are using at Gencon for the playtest stuff there. Which is why it is not released prior to the convention.
The thing I am loving about the simplistic stat blocks hearkening back to 1e/2e so far, are that I feel like I could easily design an adventure with what is there, however I'll probably wait until the "official" playtest adventure is released since I need to prep for Pathfinder this weekend... Laughing
I also enjoy the new stat blocks. All the meat of 3E, all the style of 4E, all the flavor of 1 and 2E.
All the meat of 3E, all the style of 4E, all the flavor of 1 and 2E.


Exactly. Nonsensical abilities buried in opaque, unreadable blobs of text, neatly organized, and utterly devoid of interesting fluff. I couldn't agree more.

Sadly, this is an improvement over the previous packet.

But with that said... who the hell decided to put the encounter building information at the bottom of the stat block instead of at the bloody top where it belongs?  
It's definitely an iterative process. I'm happy to see that they are making progress.
It's definitely an iterative process. I'm happy to see that they are making progress.


That depends, is it still progress when they've taken nine months to recreate from scratch a format that was perfected in 2008, and not even gotten it right? 

I suppose it's progress if you only look at the material between December and now, but on the whole it's been like watching a small child "invent" something that was first developed in the mid-1800. It's cute, it's commendable effort, but ultimately it's useless. 
Going back to the drawing board does mean retreading your steps quite a bit. If they come up with a good product in the end, none of it is useless. If you are here to get your hands on the "perfect" D&D before the general public, you are wasting your time. I am (and you should be) here to help the creative process, walking hand in hand with WoTC as they fail a thousand times for one success.
Backtracking as hard as WotC has been is justified only if you believe it's necessary. I do not. 

I'm not here to get my hands on the "perfect" D&D at all (I already got my hands on it four years ago, thanks). I'm mostly here to watch the train wreck as it happens, metaphorically speaking.  
Backtracking as hard as WotC has been is justified only if you believe it's necessary. I do not. 

I'm not here to get my hands on the "perfect" D&D at all (I already got my hands on it four years ago, thanks). I'm mostly here to watch the train wreck as it happens, metaphorically speaking.  



and continuously complain about the new edition. Your forgot that part.
Why do we fall?

My guess is that they will release whatever adventure they are using at Gencon for the playtest stuff there. Which is why it is not released prior to the convention.


/thread


I think you nailed it.

 I'm not here to get my hands on the "perfect" D&D at all (I already got my hands on it four years ago, thanks). I'm mostly here to watch the train wreck as it happens, metaphorically speaking.  



4E was far from perfect. And that's the general consensus.

I have to ask, why would you waste your time playing something you don't just to see how much more you can possibly dislike it? With all the options available out there for RPing, wouldn't your time be better served playing something you enjoy? Not only that, but your incessant negative feedback only serves to hinder the development of the new edition it it's not genuine and you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
 
4E was far from perfect. And that's the general consensus.

It's also an opinion. I'm gonna go with Twain on this one: "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." 

I have to ask, why would you waste your time playing something you don't just to see how much more you can possibly dislike it? With all the options available out there for RPing, wouldn't your time be better served playing something you enjoy? Not only that, but your incessant negative feedback only serves to hinder the development of the new edition it it's not genuine and you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
 

Neither your understanding nor your consent are necessary. It's a lot like Jazz, anyway: If I have to explain it, you'll never know.

Then 4E being "perfect" is also an opinion. And quoting Twain, while impressive to a middle-school student, isn't going to blow someone like myself away. 4E was deeply flawed, especially at higher levels. If you happen to enjoy it, then continue playing. I still have a 4E group. It's not our favorite, but we beat around the sloppy mechanics with good RPing.

I'm not asking for understanding or requiring you have my consent for disliking the playtest. My point is that you are wasting not only your own time but the time of the developers, playtesters, and everyone else involved who generally want to produce a quality product. If your feedback is negative but with good intention it's one thing. If you're picking at the mechanics just to see the "train wreck" then you're hindering the whole process.  
All the meat of 3E, all the style of 4E, all the flavor of 1 and 2E.


Exactly. Nonsensical abilities buried in opaque, unreadable blobs of text, neatly organized, and utterly devoid of interesting fluff. I couldn't agree more.

Sadly, this is an improvement over the previous packet.

But with that said... who the hell decided to put the encounter building information at the bottom of the stat block instead of at the bloody top where it belongs?  



Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. With a public playtest, less important things, like formatting, are generally left until the end.
Then 4E being "perfect" is also an opinion. And quoting Twain, while impressive to a middle-school student, isn't going to blow someone like myself away. 4E was deeply flawed, especially at higher levels. If you happen to enjoy it, then continue playing. I still have a 4E group. It's not our favorite, but we beat around the sloppy mechanics with good RPing. 



The problem is that the flaws are fixable, or would have been, had WotC never released the Essentils products and then created their stupid "We'll never errata the Rules Compendium" philosophy.

The objective flaws that were there were mostly fixable (Twin Strike, I'm looking at you).  WotC just decided that they'd rather throw 4e fans under the bus and start over, almost completely ignoring all that made 4e great.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
Then 4E being "perfect" is also an opinion. And quoting Twain, while impressive to a middle-school student, isn't going to blow someone like myself away. 4E was deeply flawed, especially at higher levels. If you happen to enjoy it, then continue playing. I still have a 4E group. It's not our favorite, but we beat around the sloppy mechanics with good RPing.

I quote Twain because I like him, and because I found it applicable. Please believe me when I say the people here are the absolute last batch I'll ever be looking to impress.

I'm not asking for understanding or requiring you have my consent for disliking the playtest. My point is that you are wasting not only your own time but the time of the developers, playtesters, and everyone else involved who generally want to produce a quality product. If your feedback is negative but with good intention it's one thing. If you're picking at the mechanics just to see the "train wreck" then you're hindering the whole process.  

Incorrect, but this is unsurprising.

Is the original premade adventure still available?
I'm gonna try to be a voice of reason or whatever here, and say a few things to try to defuse what I percieve as a rapidly approaching editon fight. Doesn't mean there actually is one - I could be wrong, or course - but I'm getting the feeling that one is brewing. 
From the experiences I have had, many D&D players, mostly those with experience in other editions, do not like 4th Edition. Kalranya, you may respectfully disagree, and you are completely within your right to do so, of course. Anyone who states that D&D 4.0 is bad as a fact is wrong. To quote OneSmartPanda, "4E was far from perfect. And that's the general consensus." As far as I can tell, he isn't saying 4.0 was bad (although the first part may come of as such), but is instead stating that the majority of people who play D&D find it their least favorite of the editions. This is, as far as I can tell, true. I'll agree with them on that. I personally don't like 4th Edition. I like the changes that are being made to D&D Next. You may not. Others, however, bring up a good point, even if they are phrasing it a bit harshly: If you say you are mostly here to "watch the train wreck as it happens", as you put it, then people will infer that you aren't going to put down meaningful, contructive criticsism that will help make D&D Next the best it can be, and instead are just going to complain, as, honestly, it looks like you've been doing a lot in this thread. You may not be intentionally complaining, but that is what it is coming across as, and that is how you are affecting people. And I've found when you affect someone negatively, as you have, your intentions don't matter much. People aren't going to remember your intentions - they'll only remember how you made them feel.

Now, to put this topic back on track, I do hope they release a premade adventure fo the new packet. Until I have a firm grasp of the new playtest rules, I'd prefer to not have to make up my own encounters. I just don't feel I am competent enough as a DM with the new rules to be able to make them in a balanced and timely manner and have everything ready for the next meeting.

I've watched this game develop for the better part of a year now. I know what it's going to look like in the end. Nothing that's happened in its development so far has been a surprise to me, nor should it be for anyone capable of paying attention to the trend that started back in 2010. There are a few bright spots (Advantage/Disadvantage, the potential of the Expertise Die system), but in the end all that's ever going to hit store shelves is going to be a stunning display of mediocrity driven by a paralyzing fear of rejection, and it's going to get buried by games that were more willing to push the envelope of industry design.

I actually feel sorry for anyone who still believes any of us can actually do something to change that. That's why I describe it as a train wreck; we can't change course and hitting the brakes won't make enough difference at this point to save the situation from its inevitable, and messy, conclusion.
I have a different opinion. I believe the next iteration of D&D will be successful and will even win a few ENnies! Wink

 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Wow. All I know is I'm trying to look at the glass as half-full rather than half-empty.  There is a lot of potential here.  The healing rules are one of the cool things that are similar to the Healing Surge mechanic in 4E.  I also expect A LOT of options in the final rules for those who want a more "4E-ish" game.  For my part, a good amount of what I've seen in both packets is good stuff.  Some of it needed some help, some of it was confusing, ambiguous, maybe even ill-defined.  But it's a play-test; this is where we get to add our input to hopefully change what's in the final game.  I'm all about that.  I am LOVING the fact that there will be some backward compatibility to our older products... it will be EASY to modify 1E & 2E material to these rules...  3.5 & 4E will need a little more conversion...

Hope they bring back a little bit of the "Higher starting HP", improve crits, help out the non-human races with another +1 to an Ability score, fix two weapon fighting (get rid of the 1/2 Dmg math; simplify: drop the damage 1 die type d6 to d4 for Off-hand which attacks with Disatantage), etc.  And flattening the advancement to slower than 1E/AD&D rates seems like a bad choice to me.  I totally get the idea behind it; with slower, flatter progression, weaker monsters and/or encounters still pose a threat as you gain levels.  Got it.  Sadly, it's a bit of power creep.  When a player has their PC gain a LV, they want something other than a few HP.  OK, apologies, got off-topic.  Yeah, I can wait for the adventure yet to come.  And I'll reserve any judgement on the game as a whole based on the final product, not preliminary rules I'm reading & using that are part of a playtest.
im working on an adventure for the weekend and can't wait to try it out. i love dnd and will always love it, and im sure theres always going to be people like me out there supporting what they roll out next Laughing
Is the original premade adventure still available?

Does anyone have a link to the download site for the Caves of Chaos test adventure or can someone email it to me as an attachment?

The Online Playtest Agreement (OPTA) doesn't allow to distribute the Cave of Chaos PDF and the old Download Link takes you to instruction to download the newest Packet only.

You can always try contacting Customer Service and ask them if they can send you a copy. 


Confidentiality: You agree not to copy, excerpt, distribute (either in physical or digital format), publish, display, disseminate, release and/or transmit, in whole or in part, or create derivative materials from any Playtest Materials provided to you.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter


I've watched this game develop for the better part of a year now. I know what it's going to look like in the end. Nothing that's happened in its development so far has been a surprise to me, nor should it be for anyone capable of paying attention to the trend that started back in 2010. There are a few bright spots (Advantage/Disadvantage, the potential of the Expertise Die system), but in the end all that's ever going to hit store shelves is going to be a stunning display of mediocrity driven by a paralyzing fear of rejection, and it's going to get buried by games that were more willing to push the envelope of industry design.

I actually feel sorry for anyone who still believes any of us can actually do something to change that. That's why I describe it as a train wreck; we can't change course and hitting the brakes won't make enough difference at this point to save the situation from its inevitable, and messy, conclusion.



Well, I'm capable of paying attention to trends, reject your pity, and respectfully ask that you stop cluttering up the process for those who care and believe the system can be improved.
On Twitter: Wizards_DnD @Wizards_DnD 

@DackeStaffan We will have an adventure hitting tomorrow as well.

We're still knee deep in Caves of Chaos.  So we're just going to move into the next packet, the pcs have the xp to be half way to level 3.  So This game session no xp but they can level with updated 2 level pcs.  I'll just use the new bestiary, all the same monsters are thier.  I think. 
On Twitter: Wizards_DnD @Wizards_DnD 

@DackeStaffan We will have an adventure hitting tomorrow as well.


Sweetness!

They just released a premade adventure. It's called "Reclaiming Blingdenstone"

check www.wizards.com/dnd/dndnext.aspx

and download the new 8/17 packet, they also added a "Sorcerer" and a "Warlock" class. It seems nothing else changed from the 8/13 packet, just the Adventure and a new "Classes" document.