Question on Magic Missile

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Okay Rules Forum, got a question for ya! I'm in a game and the Wizard player uses Magic Missile. Looking over his damage total, it's obvious that he's adding Bonuses to damage rolls to MM and when I said that those bonus weren't supposed to add in, he got rather... irritated. I pointed out that those bonuses require a DAMAGE ROLL and he pointed out that since the power doesn't include any listed damage dice, it's the same as rolling a d0. When I said no, that's not how it works I was accused of rules lawyering and making his character unplayable.

He was so far adding Dual Implement Spellcaster to it and hge was talking about taking Admixture Fire and Astral Fire at 11th to add even more to the damage on top of DIS and whatever item bonuses he manages to acquire.

I read through my PHB, my RC, the Online Compendium and I even fed it through the CB a few times. Optimizing it out I got a max of 15 at lv 12. So I want your view of this.
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls The Silent God of the House of Trolls Unfrozen OTTer Arbiter of the House of Trolls Yes, I have many titles. Deal with it.
He is, um, lying. A damage roll is literally defined (RC 222) as rolling dice to determine damage. Is he rolling dice? No? Not a damage roll.

Then you just go over each of the game elements he is adding and point out they all say "damage rolls."

Also, smack him. I find that usually causes people to either leave or straighten up. Either way, you win.
Have him look at the rules for magic misile they have to tell you that you get to add your implement bounus  to damage... you know because you should not be able to normally, you only get to add an implement because there is an exception to the normal rules.

Beguiling strands dose not even get that. 
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls The Silent God of the House of Trolls Unfrozen OTTer Arbiter of the House of Trolls Yes, I have many titles. Deal with it.
Well... it has long range... and never misses.

Many people don't like the new magic missile.

If your group wants a house rule to make it better go ahead as long as you all understand it's a house rule. 
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
The old version (in PH) before change


Magic Missile Attack 1



You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy.



At-Will


Arcane, Force, Implement



Standard Action 
Ranged   20


Target:One creature



Attack:Intelligence vs. Reflex



Hit:2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage.



Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level.



Special:This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When



a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can



use this power.


I quiet usable - it might be more diplomatic to negotiate.

Our group certainly decides that we prefer a couple of the original rules rather than the errata rules.
 
I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.



He's wrong on the first part, but right on the second two.  Magic Missile hasn't been useful since 2nd Edition.  Since he took the power not understanding how it worked, let him swap it out for a different one gratis (aka don't make him wait for a level-up to retrain).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Well... it has long range... and never misses.



It also never hits, so you don't get on-a-hit triggers.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.

Is he a Mage? Because it is hardly a punishment to "take it" when he gets it for free, in addition to his two other at-wills. If he is not a Mage (Arcanist) he took it voluntarily and has no reason to compalin.
If he is not a Mage (Arcanist) he took it voluntarily and has no reason to compalin.



Yes, he does.  He thought it worked one way, and he was mistaken.  He shouldn't be penalized for that; the OP should let him swap the power out.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I'd buy that, except he invented a "d0." That isn't "thinking it works one way" that is just straight up breaking Wheaton's Law. Also that breaks down to a Munchkin fallacy argument and he gave someone a hard time for it. Chances are he hasn't used his retraining for the level, so sure, swap it out if he is an Arcanist. But the odds he didn't know the way it actually worked? Slime to none.
Slime to none.


Not sure if intended ...
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'd buy that, except he invented a "d0." That isn't "thinking it works one way" that is just straight up breaking Wheaton's Law. Also that breaks down to a Munchkin fallacy argument and he gave someone a hard time for it. Chances are he hasn't used his retraining for the level, so sure, swap it out if he is an Arcanist. But the odds he didn't know the way it actually worked? Slime to none.



The hell is 'Wheaton's Law'?

And I agree, if anybody is rules lawyering, it's the Wizard's player, and he probably was aware of that.  On the other hand, the question of 'what do you get to add to Magic Missile' damage crops up on the boards about once a week, so unless he has a history of cheese weaseling, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.



"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Slime to none.


Not sure if intended ...

Haha, that is kind of intentional. It is something some friends of mine and I do, guess the habit just snuck up on me. It fits though, we use it to describe situations just like this, where someone is being a **** and the odds they don't know are "slime to none."
We'r at the moment level 4. The Wizard (Mage specifically I believe) has played 4e as long as I have and it's not he doesn't know that it doesn't work that way.
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls The Silent God of the House of Trolls Unfrozen OTTer Arbiter of the House of Trolls Yes, I have many titles. Deal with it.
In my current group, we let the wizard use it as either the original PHB text or with the errata text, at will.  So you can either take the chance at missing with the trade off of extra damage on a hit, or you can simply do automatic damage (aka, the Taser), which is convenient for taking out stray minions or enemies known to be low on HP and otherwise difficult to hit.
We'r at the moment level 4. The Wizard (Mage specifically I believe) has played 4e as long as I have and it's not he doesn't know that it doesn't work that way.



Well, if he's a Mage, then he gets Magic Missile for free, so he's not losing anything if he opts to never use it.  He still has his standard two at-wills; he didn't spend a slot on it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
It does still have circumstantial uses; it just won't be a go-to power.
I'm assuming that since he was talking about admixturing fire onto it, he's probably playing a pyromancer mage.


On the other hand, the question of 'what do you get to add to Magic Missile' damage crops up on the boards about once a week, so unless he has a history of cheese weaseling, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.



I wouldn't, unless he's never been on these boards.  If the question comes up about once a week, then the odds are good that he's seen the thread once or twice and knows *exactly* what should and shouldn't get added to Magic Missile.

Note that there is a way to get a damage roll on magic missile, but it requires a specific piece of equipment (or two) and a specific race choice.... 
the question of 'what do you get to add to Magic Missile' damage crops up on the boards about once a week

I've just now added the following to the forum FAQ:
"What is added to Magic Missile damage? Nothing that adds to a damage 'roll', and nothing that occurs explicitly on a 'hit. Discussed here."

Okay, it's been resolved so thank you guys for all your input!
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls The Silent God of the House of Trolls Unfrozen OTTer Arbiter of the House of Trolls Yes, I have many titles. Deal with it.