Help with Dwarf Rogue build

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Hi!
I'm new to D&D but not to RPG's. I would like to play a Dwarven Rogue but I realise its not exactly optimal, but I tend to favour the RP aspects over powergaming. But I would like to be as effective as possible so do you have any suggestions for a decent build? Open for most suggestions, but no rapier
Hi!
I'm new to D&D but not to RPG's. I would like to play a Dwarven Rogue but I realise its not exactly optimal, but I tend to favour the RP aspects over powergaming. But I would like to be as effective as possible so do you have any suggestions for a decent build? Open for most suggestions, but no rapier



I believe there are some feats for Dwarf Rogue characters.  Also, for stat synergy, you could go with a Revenent character with Dwarf for your Past Life choice.  This gives you +2 DEX, choice of +2 CHA or CON.  And you are considered a Dwarf for your feat picks.
What level range are you playing in? They're not all that spectacular early on, but Dwarven Rogues are singlehandedly capable of some of the most ridiculous things in epic tier.
Just go ahead Us charop nerds typically get very narrowminded with regards to "optimal" choices. But, at the end of the day selecting good powers and feats is by far the most improtant part of optimization, you will barely notice the lacking dex.

Go brutal scoundrel. Look up the handbook. Grab sky blue feats and powers. Profit. 

Havent actualy started to play, just planning my character. Will start at level 1. Dont want to go Revenant (what book is that, I'm not sure I've read about them), like a live Dwarf
So its more up to the feats than stats then, sounds good. Any thing in particular a dwarf rogue could use to his advantage?
You could aim to have a good str/dex and take brutal scoundrel.  Look into riposte strike.
Like other rogues you probably want light blade expertise on level 1

Leathal Hammer training will allow you to use a warhammer instead of a silly rapier. If you can have choices of magic, you can then get a dwarven thrower warhammer for the ranged powers. Then Dwarven weapon training will help with a +2 damage. Unless you want craghammer (which isn't a bad option either) then you take tunnel stalker, but you lose a die of sneak attack.

Dan
What level range are you playing in? They're not all that spectacular early on, but Dwarven Rogues are singlehandedly capable of some of the most ridiculous things in epic tier.



Now you peaked my curiosity. Care to elaborate?

What is leathal hammer training? And I thought I could only use light blades for snaek attack? And what is tunnel stalker? Sorry I'm a noob...
What is leathal hammer training? And I thought I could only use light blades for snaek attack? And what is tunnel stalker? Sorry I'm a noob...



They are both feats specific to Dwarven Rogues that do pretty much what DanMathMan said. Tunnel Stalker lets you use an axe, hammer or pick with one-hand for rogue powers that require a light blade and sneak attack at the cost of losing 1 die of sneak damage. Lethal Hammer training is similar, its limited to a warhammer or throwing hammer, but doesn't cost you die of sneak damage.
Just found tunnel stalker feat, in MP of course, but I cant seem to find leathal hammer training, in which book is that?
Just found tunnel stalker feat, in MP of course, but I cant seem to find leathal hammer training, in which book is that?



MP2. One thing to point out, even if you don't have a DDI subscription you can still search the Compendium and see the source information, you just can't see the details.
Oh thanks! I'll go and try to read up a bit more, its just so much to keep track of. Not sure if I want my char to use hammers, had envisioned him with shortsword but its good to know that the option is there (and quite an appealing option to with twice as much damage from the weapon)
What level range are you playing in? They're not all that spectacular early on, but Dwarven Rogues are singlehandedly capable of some of the most ridiculous things in epic tier.



Now you peaked my curiosity. Care to elaborate?



Be a Shield Dwarf for the free shield proficiency. Go Str/Dex and MC Fighter. Then take this lengthy shopping list of feats:

Bludgeon Expertise
Lethal Hammer Training
Dwarven Weapon Training
MC Fighter
Raam's Maw Practice
Hindering Shield
Overwhelming Impact

Result? At-Will Daze + Push 2 vs Reflex using your cornerstone at-will. If playing in paragon, you can still ruin someone's day by throwing in push-boosters to work up a Slow + Push 5. 

I prefer this on a Rogue|Warden/Son of Mercy, actually. Saves you at least a few feats in this list, and allows you to work up a mean Riposte Strike catch-22 with it.
Oh thanks! I'll go and try to read up a bit more, its just so much to keep track of. Not sure if I want my char to use hammers, had envisioned him with shortsword but its good to know that the option is there (and quite an appealing option to with twice as much damage from the weapon)



I generally prefer daggers on my rogues, ranged and melee in one weapon and I'd rather have the accuracy over a bump in die size.
Oh thanks! I'll go and try to read up a bit more, its just so much to keep track of. Not sure if I want my char to use hammers, had envisioned him with shortsword but its good to know that the option is there (and quite an appealing option to with twice as much damage from the weapon)



I generally prefer daggers on my rogues, ranged and melee in one weapon and I'd rather have the accuracy over a bump in die size.



Daggers is cool, and I guess maybe ok if you compare to shortsword, but compared to warhammer, craghammer or waraxe?
All of those weapons are +2 proficiency. Relative to a Dagger (+3 prof, +1 class feature), you're at a -2 to hit. Your obligation first and foremost is to hit, because sneak attack delivers far too big of a value-added damage package to ignore, so the best option will still be dagger. I despise giving this advice because I despise the dagger, but well, it's true, and generally accepted CharOp dogma.
Oh thanks! I'll go and try to read up a bit more, its just so much to keep track of. Not sure if I want my char to use hammers, had envisioned him with shortsword but its good to know that the option is there (and quite an appealing option to with twice as much damage from the weapon)



I generally prefer daggers on my rogues, ranged and melee in one weapon and I'd rather have the accuracy over a bump in die size.



Daggers is cool, and I guess maybe ok if you compare to shortsword, but compared to warhammer, craghammer or waraxe?



A 10% difference in accuracy is pretty substantial. I think Light Blade Expertise is also generally better than Bludgeon Expertise or Axe Expertise for rogues, unless you're going for something specific like RenZhe's build. Dagger also gives you a ranged and melee option without taking up your weapon enchantment, which means you've got access to all the minor action attack powers. 
So a daggerwielding dwarf then? I like it. Thanks for the help!
So a daggerwielding dwarf then? I like it. Thanks for the help!



No problem. Any idea what level you are starting at?
Level 1. I found several threads about dwarf rogues in the handbook so I've got some reading to do!
hand xbows and slings can be good alternatives to the dagger, if you prefer a ranged playstyle.
Yes, I found this build community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... using a superior crossbow which I found very interesting. Does that look like a good build? Is it worth it to multi to ranger for the darkstrider or should I just go cunning sneak and then cloaked sniper?
Yes, I found this build community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... using a superior crossbow which I found very interesting. Does that look like a good build? Is it worth it to multi to ranger for the darkstrider or should I just go cunning sneak and then cloaked sniper?



Unfortunately Superior Crossbow is no longer a legal rogue weapon, they only have access to the hand crossbow now.
have you looked at the Thief. You can then use str as your primary stat instead of dex, but then your AC would take a hit
Seeing as how you're new to D&D, I'd just stick with dagger for now.  It has the best accuracy, works for melee and ranged powers, and has great support.  Cunning Sneak requires a really good grasp of stealth rules and you may have some trouble hiding at low levels.  Brutal Scoundrel would work the best for a dwarf.
Not a legal rouge weapon, what does that mean? I cant use it even if I take the feat for prof? Where do you find that kind of information? 

Might stick with the daggers then. Or dual hand x-bows with the doublefisted shooter...

Will look at the thief as well, so many options!
Not a legal rouge weapon, what does that mean? I cant use it even if I take the feat for prof? Where do you find that kind of information? 

Might stick with the daggers then. Or dual hand x-bows with the doublefisted shooter...

Will look at the thief as well, so many options!



Sneak Attack is limited to certain weapons and the crossbow isn't one of them, so while you could use it with rogue powers if you got proficiency, you can't deal sneak attack damage. (Currently you can deal sneak damage with light blades, hand crossbows, shortbows, or slings by default)
Most rogue powers are limited to certain weapons too.  Like riposte strike being limited to light blades.  It is why the dwarf rogue feats state that you can use x weapon with any power that you use a light blade with and with sneak attack.  While you could get a feat to use a fullblade, you could not use any powers nor sneak attack with it even though you know how to fight with it.
Most rogue powers are limited to certain weapons too.  Like riposte strike being limited to light blades.  It is why the dwarf rogue feats state that you can use x weapon with any power that you use a light blade with and with sneak attack.  While you could get a feat to use a fullblade, you could not use any powers nor sneak attack with it even though you know how to fight with it.



Yeah, I'd originally thought they'd changed the powers too, but most of the ones I checked still seem to list crossbows. Oddly they don't list shortbows, which were added to Sneak Attack in the Class Compendium.
Were do you find this updated info? Is it the Compendium or are there other sources or documents? Don't want to subscribe.
Were do you find this updated info? Is it the Compendium or are there other sources or documents? Don't want to subscribe.



It depends on how the changes were made. Things changed by errata are consolidated here ->www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/u... and I think everyone can see those. Some changes though, like the updates to the Rogue, were done in a series of Dragon articles called the Class Compendium. (here is the Rogue one->www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...